First hand Review of the Hornady L-N-L AP vs Dillon 550B

[r1kk1]

This is a great thread!

I I have many friends that run the 550b and most of them are true blue, except one. He had a lot of trouble with the stick powders on the Dillon powder system and after multiple calls with Dillon he eventually ended up so frustrated he sold all his Dillon equipment. I really think he's the exception to most people I've talked to about this particular press though.

I switched to a Quick Measure on the 550. It handles anything with ease. It is like the LNL in one respect is the powder through die is non expanding. I have four Dillon measures that are setup with different powder bars for ball, short stick and flake and it works well for that.

take care,

r1kk1

[dauntlessdave]

Agree 98%. Only difference was I was just as fast with my 550 and no casefeeder as I was with my LnL with a casefeeder. ANY issue with a casefeeder that happens regularly totally kills your actual production rate. 650 is a great machine. 550 is a great machine as well. They just meet different purposes.

Couldn't agree moreso. I've had 2 L-N-L's, one with and one without casefeeder and found that my trusty old 550's weren't apparently as fast. Or so I thought until I counted the down time with my L-N-L's fiddling mostly with primer and feed situations. I polished the primer slides, kept them pretty much grit free and still problems. I finally sold the red machines and have happily plugged along with my 550's and SDB's. I sincerely wanted to give Hornady a chance but somewhere along the way I believe their fit and finish just isn't up to snuff like they could be.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

One of the things that jumps out at me from reading this thread is this:

1. Nowhere do I see anyone who owned a 550, bought a LnL and now complains about their Hornady LnL's posting solutions and or how to do the adjustments to get the press running correctly. If the press has problems, the press is blamed. The poster obviously doesn't know how to do most if any of the adjustments to the press. The new LnL owner doesn't bother taking the time to really get to know their press. If there's a problem, the press is blamed as being no good.

2. I know from reading other posts these same posters, when a new 550 owner posts problems about the 550, often initially blame the new owner for failing to set the press up right. The assumption is it's the owner, not the press. And of course, they post solutions from where they learned to fix issues on their Dillon presses from Dillon or elsewhere.

The point I'm making with this is what I see from this five page thread is most of the 550 to LnL owners aren't taking the same amount of time and effort learning how to tune, tweak, adjust and keep adjustments on their LnL like they did/do on their 550. It is apparent to me they haven't bothered to work at getting the press "issues" smoothed out.

I recently sold a LnL I'd had for a decade of operation. I had worked through some issues with it early on and mine was tuned up, the primer feed mechanism and the auto advance mechanisms ran smoothly. The press, after a decade of use reloading a ton of ammo, worked and operated like it was brand new. (Words the buyer posted on this forum.) But I was bored with it and wanted to try something new because of a feature the new press (an RCBS Pro 2000 had, strip priming) I'd always been interested in since that press first came out.

The new press arrived on my door with a manufacturing defect requiring the replacement of the subplate. Replacing the subplate threw off the various auto advance mechanism's timing and the priming advance timing. Additionally to that, the primer seating mechanism has a small manufacturing tolerance meeting tolerance issue causing it to be sloppy enough it has to be turned to be properly centered. Needless to say, I had a significant amount of heartburn with it. And of course I was frustrated and wanted to return it and carped and moaned about it.

But instead of returning it and going and getting another of the press I had before, I gave the press a chance and stuck with it. I worked through each and every adjustment, polishing, fine tuning and using loctite to lock down the adjustments I made. Doing so, I achieved success and posted such on this forum. I'm currently cranking out not hundreds, but thousands of .223 cartridges on the press. When I'm done with the cartridge, I expect to have 4 thousand cartridges in various bullet weights in my ammo supply storage.

I've read here and on many other forums, including over at BrianEnos and over at AR15.com where Dillon owners tune, tweak, polish, adjust and lock in their presses. I've owned a 550 I should have worked through the problem with by sending it in. I've owned the LnL and I now own the RCBS Pro 2000. I load on a friend's 650 pretty frequently and have seen him go through some issues where he's had to tune, tweak, etc.

So here's my thoughts on the matter:

IF you own any of these progressives, regardless of brand and you have not taken the time to learn the press, learned it's quirks, learned it's engineering compromises(and they all have compromises, including the Dillons), learned how to and performed the tuning, tweaks, adjustments, lubrication and how to operate it effectively, then you have not done your due diligence for the product you paid for and you have not given that press it's proper chance. So when you fail with it, it is you and not the press that is at fault.

So I say to you, if you have a LnL and are dissatisfied and want to return it: Take the time to learn the press and how to operate it before you blame the press. If you haven't done that or aren't willing to do that for your new press, don't blame the press.

[jmorris]

I agree, all presses have issues, even the $25,000+ camdex and ammoload machines.

The 550 holds it's value better, if you went with the 550 and decided later you would rather try an LNL down the road you could trade the used 550 for a new LNL.

[Colorado4wheel]

One of the things that jumps out at me from reading this thread is this:

1. Nowhere do I see anyone who owned a 550, bought a LnL and now complains about their Hornady LnL's posting solutions and or how to do the adjustments to get the press running correctly. If the press has problems, the press is blamed. The poster obviously doesn't know how to do most if any of the adjustments to the press. The new LnL owner doesn't bother taking the time to really get to know their press. If there's a problem, the press is blamed as being no good.

2. I know from reading other posts these same posters, when a new 550 owner posts problems about the 550, often initially blame the new owner for failing to set the press up right. The assumption is it's the owner, not the press. And of course, they post solutions from where they learned to fix issues on their Dillon presses from Dillon or elsewhere.

The point I'm making with this is what I see from this five page thread is most of the 550 to LnL owners aren't taking the same amount of time and effort learning how to tune, tweak, adjust and keep adjustments on their LnL like they did/do on their 550. It is apparent to me they haven't bothered to work at getting the press "issues" smoothed out.

I recently sold a LnL I'd had for a decade of operation. I had worked through some issues with it early on and mine was tuned up, the primer feed mechanism and the auto advance mechanisms ran smoothly. The press, after a decade of use reloading a ton of ammo, worked and operated like it was brand new. (Words the buyer posted on this forum.) But I was bored with it and wanted to try something new because of a feature the new press (an RCBS Pro 2000 had, strip priming) I'd always been interested in since that press first came out.

The new press arrived on my door with a manufacturing defect requiring the replacement of the subplate. Replacing the subplate threw off the various auto advance mechanism's timing and the priming advance timing. Additionally to that, the primer seating mechanism has a small manufacturing tolerance meeting tolerance issue causing it to be sloppy enough it has to be turned to be properly centered. Needless to say, I had a significant amount of heartburn with it. And of course I was frustrated and wanted to return it and carped and moaned about it.

But instead of returning it and going and getting another of the press I had before, I gave the press a chance and stuck with it. I worked through each and every adjustment, polishing, fine tuning and using loctite to lock down the adjustments I made. Doing so, I achieved success and posted such on this forum. I'm currently cranking out not hundreds, but thousands of .223 cartridges on the press. When I'm done with the cartridge, I expect to have 4 thousand cartridges in various bullet weights in my ammo supply storage.

I've read here and on many other forums, including over at BrianEnos and over at AR15.com where Dillon owners tune, tweak, polish, adjust and lock in their presses. I've owned a 550 I should have worked through the problem with by sending it in. I've owned the LnL and I now own the RCBS Pro 2000. I load on a friend's 650 pretty frequently and have seen him go through some issues where he's had to tune, tweak, etc.

So here's my thoughts on the matter:

IF you own any of these progressives, regardless of brand and you have not taken the time to learn the press, learned it's quirks, learned it's engineering compromises(and they all have compromises, including the Dillons), learned how to and performed the tuning, tweaks, adjustments, lubrication and how to operate it effectively, then you have not done your due diligence for the product you paid for and you have not given that press it's proper chance. So when you fail with it, it is you and not the press that is at fault.

So I say to you, if you have a LnL and are dissatisfied and want to return it: Take the time to learn the press and how to operate it before you blame the press. If you haven't done that or aren't willing to do that for your new press, don't blame the press.

This thread isn't about helping someone resolve issues with their press. But to give you a idea of what I did (some I did post). Made a funnel to keep cases from bouncing off the ramp. Made guard to prevent cases from flipping in the chute. Reclocked the case feeder to keep the the cases from hitting side of chute. Felt under the slider. Custom sub plates from Hornady (2). New frame from Hornady. Custom tune from Hornady. STILL NOT CLOSE TO AS GOOD AS MY 650. Go to my photo bucket account if you want pictures of all these things. After two presses and 5 months of trouble Hornady gave me my money back. Good for them. IT WAS NOT A SETUP ISSUE. MY PRESS JUST WOULD NOT SEAT PRIMERS. Even with shortening the nut and the custom sub plates. All the other issues are annoying. But a press that won't seat primers is useless. And why live with Sub par performance in other areas to save a couple bucks. I would never recommend a LnL over a 550 simple because I know the 550 CAN work. LnL has a known issue seating primers. I am not the only one with the issue. Some Ln L's are fine others just won't seat a primer for) some guns and primer combo. The.Dillon will do it with ease because it has a better primer punch stroke. By a huge amount.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

While I believe you, I do find it amazing Hornady couldn't come up with a press that would seat primers. So you're saying you had two presses that would not seat primers. Wow, what are the odds of that?

I had a Dillon 550 that wouldn't feed primers for beans. No parts sent to me ever fixed it either, but my buddy I sold it to got Dillon to swap it out and it did fine then.

I think any thread is about any thing anyone posting in the thread wants it to be about, as long as it's pertinent. My experience with my LnL was absolutely and totally different than yours. Not saying I've never gotten a lemon progressive. I've gotten two - one was a Dillon and one was an RCBS. Of those two, the RCBS was the one that ended up being fixable. So again, no one manufacturer is seriously as superior as you're claiming. It's more about the individual and what they're able to figure out with their press working with the manufacturer. Sometimes an individual and their press can't be helped by the manufacturer. That's when it's time to get refunds, etc.

[BeeMan]

This thread isn't about helping someone resolve issues with their press. ...

Maybe not in the original intent, but the discussion (thread drift?) certainly got some useful information out in the open. As a potential buyer for a progressive press, I'm looking for every bit of insight I can find while saving my pennies. I'll glean tips from Colorado, Lloyd, Dave in Georgia, and anyone else.

BeeMan

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

WOW Dave, I believe you have said it and said it well.

As I have read some of the posts, I have had a real hard time believing that a company, RCBS, Hornady, Dillon would manufacture and sell a progressive that would not do what they said it would.

Now, I know that product development and modifications happen once a product is placed in the customers hands, but I'd be very surprised to go to the RCBS, Hornady or Dillon plant and see a progressive press sitting on their bench that didn't work and work very well.

As you indicate, likely the problem is that we as customers didn't have the opportunity to be on location during the time the machine was being tweaked to where it now runs with flawless profection.

I have a Hornady, and yes, there is huge learning curve after many years of single stage press use. What can you expect, I'm an Ol'Coot!

I'll also be the first to admit that I am not attempting to set any speed records with reload production, BUT as slow as I might be, the L-N-L just produces the handgun ammo it is used for, so much faster then I ever could with the single stage that it is likely to stay on the bench for awhile.

Is it 100%, nope not yet, but then I still spend more time on the single stage then I do or ever will on the progressive, so it is likely to take me awhile to really learn and profect my operation and it would be so no matter if the machine is Green, Blue or Red.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Colorado4wheel]

While I believe you, I do find it amazing Hornady couldn't come up with a press that would seat primers. So you're saying you had two presses that would not seat primers. Wow, what are the odds of that?

I had a Dillon 550 that wouldn't feed primers for beans. No parts sent to me ever fixed it either, but my buddy I sold it to got Dillon( to swap it out and it did fine then.

I would be surprised if any stock LnL can seat a CCI primer down run in a lightweight sprung Glock. The have for be seated very well. Dillon does it easily on both the 550 and the 650. LnL has a hollow ram that twists when you try to seat them that well.

I could give you many examples of how the 650 has better engineering. LnL has cool features.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I had a 550 years ago and it was good, but every now and then the primer system would go 'quirky.' I sold it to feed kids, not because of any problems with any real problems with the press.

I have a friend who is very good with mechanics, etc, his is a qualified motorcycle mechanic and has moved onto electronics and is a fully qualified electronics engineer and is now mid way through a gunsmithing trade course. So if anyone can tune a press, he should be able to. He has two RCBS progressives (he ought one for small primers, one for large). One works like a dream turning out all his IPSC ammo and a bunch for his friends. The other one is a lemon, it gave him all sorts of trouble. He has stripped them down and can't find any dimensional differences, but no way can he get the lemon to work. I have been to his place several times recently and notice the lemon is always covered, but the other one hard at work.

That can happen with any brand.

I have a few friends that have (and cherish) old RCBS Green Machines. They all size and prime off the press as they run better that way! I had two and can't see the point of owning a progressive that has to be run using a lot of manual work. They would be probably better off with Lee 1000s because if you can get a Green Machine to run, even partially given the sizing and priming done off the press, you will definetely be good enough to run a Lee1000.

I had forgotten, but the armoury at work used a huge mega dollar machine to reload 38s for our range and practice shooting. They ended up buying a new one because of difficulties. The machine was supposed to be fully automatic, but required constant supervision and fiddling. The new press was not without it's problems either and eventally they sized and deprimed on the old press then did the rest on the second press. They ran like Swiss watches after that and were not supervised apart from keeping an 'ear out' and an occasional check.

So I suppose if you can't solve your problem with a $25,000 machine, we shouldn't get too upset if a $300-$500 machine gives us a hickup occasionally.

Having said that, I had to load some ammo for tomorrow and my 37year old Lee 1000 was having one of it's moods and I ended up running the cases through with just the fls die in place, priming on an RCBS hand primer, then running the cases back through the machine with the expand/powder and boolit seat dies in place. It was also a bit crotchety with indexing so it obviously needs a strip down and clean, but I was in a hurry and my method, though crude resulted in loaded ammo, a strip down and clean may not have worked, so I went with method one. I will pull it down later. It was still a lot quicker than loading it on my old Rockchucker, even with the case kicker in place.

[dauntlessdave]

While I believe you, I do find it amazing Hornady couldn't come up with a press that would seat primers. So you're saying you had two presses that would not seat primers. Wow, what are the odds of that?

I've had two L-N-L's both with primer problems. I maintain there's a fit and finish problem with Hornady's design. Admittedly, I'm no mechanical genius but what it took for me to get the primer system working on both L-N-L's was careful buffing and polishing of the primer slides and constant cleaning of the race they travelled in. A coincidence of odds? Maybe. On the other hand, I've had two 550's for years and have never had issue with anything priming other than an occasional mis-prime due to a spent primer blocking the primer slide.

You're right about the problems primarily being "operator error". I have no qualms about that. It's just that for my hobby or reloading I don't want to have to spend more time polishing, buffing, and fixing than reloading.

Learning the L-N-L's quirky timing with pawl adjustments was tricky enough. That was a major learning curve for me and no doubt any owner of a L-N-L. That learned, things improved immeasurably but the priming weakness seemed to not go away for me. Maybe I got a couple lemons, I don't know. I like many of the L-N-L's features and can understand why so many like the machine. While I'll continue to think the fit and finish is lacking, I'll take the hit for not giving the machine enough of my attention and leave those kinds of duties for those more willing to undertake them.

[Morgan12]

I for one tried tweaking the thing I really wantd to like the LNL I talked to Hornady, friends and everything. I could get it in the end to prime fairly well but every once in a while the primer wouldnt be there and being as I couldnt see it id just miss it. At least witht he dillon I can see when it dosnt have a primer in the cup. Is the Dillon perfect no it does have a few issues, I like them both and the hornady does what it suppose to do just not good enough for me to choose it over the Dillon.

[Colorado4wheel]

When this many people complain about the LnL you have a problem.

550 is not perfect. It does not like a dirty/old primer slider. You have to clean it and polish it with steel wool/wet dry paper every 1-2k rounds. When that stops working you call Dillon and get a new primer housing. Thats the biggest issue with the 550. But if you know how to clean it your pretty much set.

[Rockchucker]

Colorado4wheel, are you talking about the tubes, or the slide? I haven't done much cleaning on mine, but sounds like I might need to.

[Colorado4wheel]

On the 550. Polish the inside of the primer housing. Polish the slider itself as well. Don't polish the black thing the entire setup rides on. I use very fine wet dry sandpaper. Just run a patch through the tube. You can use the low primer alarm to push it through. It needs to be small or it will get stuck.

[Morgan12]

I had the same problem on mine I havnt had to clean the inside of the primer tube but the actual black pad the primer arm goes up and down some very fine steel wool just buff it up and your back in buisness

[Reload3006]

I have a square deal that would not seat small primers. Large primers no problem .. .finally I got tired of adjusting this and adjusting that changing the orifices and just bought a whole priming assy for small primers works great now. I still don't know what the deal with the old one is but it works for large primers. Funny as much as we pay for these things one would expect them to be cadallac right out of the box. Still its a great press and has served me well and loaded thousands of rounds ... Hope my 650 does as well.

[milprileb]

Got 2 Dillons: 550 and 650. I don't think the primer feed system is all that wonderful and I am tired of clearing issues that arise with them.

I just prime the brass with the RCBS automatic priming tool. Yeah, a separate step but I don't have 20 minute SNAFU halts clearing primer issues on either press any more.

That won't fit a lot of speed loaders out there but progressives to me are convenience and not a drag strip speed machine.

[quasi]

one thing I have learned thru lifes various ups and downs, ebbs and flows, financial and otherwise, is that Dillon products really hold their value. When/if you have to sell a Dillon press, you will get most of your money back.

[Moonman]

If you have any problems with your Hornady LNL-AP watch a few videos and save yourself some time, A LOT OF TIME.

Google "Hornady LNL-AP Set-Up Tips and Tricks."

A video series by Bill Morgan AKA 76Highboy on another forum.

His 5 video series is EXCELLENT and Really down to EARTH with his manner.

He covers Mounting the Press, The Cleaning and Prep of the Parts, Preparing The Powder Measure System,

Preparing The Priming System, he shows how to correct things people misunderstand or have screwed up.

The Shellplate Adjustment (and use of a Lockwasher, Lightly locked), Initial Machine Priming with Powdered Graphite.

He's contemplating another video now about "The Pawls and Timing adjustments."

Many folks make ASSUMPTIONS about what they perceive as problems and their solutions,

which turn out to be GARBAGE IN THE END.

I never have PRIMER ISSUES with MY Dillon's or Hornady LNL-AP.

I PRIME AHEAD in batches with my RCBS AUTO BENCH PRIMING UNIT.

I have hand help priming units but seldom use them anymore.

I have BLUE, RED and GREEN Presses, and I'm looking at placing

HORNADY Case Activated Powder Measures on my DILLONS.

SPEED IS FOR THE RACETRACK NOT RELOADING.

You need speed and a lot of ammo, YOU SHOULD HAVE A DILLON 1050 ANYWAY, not a hobbyist machine.