Annealing BPC cases

[McLintock]

I've been planning on annealing my 45-70 cases for a while but haven't done any annealing for probably 20 years or so and they were for .284 Winchester and .257Roberts cases, not straight walled ones. Kenny Wasserburger's comments in another thread about doing his cases after every use and the importance of it really got me to wanting to jump into the project and get with it. I figure that if a shooter of his experience thinks it's that important it must be. I'm going to use a set up I read about, maybe on this forum, where you chuck a shell holder in a variable speed drill and turn it in the propane torch flame, then drop the case in water. My question is, how hot do you get the cartridge mouth, or basically, what shade of red. I've read where you can over heat them, so am looking for some good estimates on how to guage it. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
McLintock

[John Boy]

McLintock: You want to heat the case to 650* F about an inch from the mouth. Use the Tempil Liquid which turns black at 650*.
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=15512146 Paint a line on the case with the liquid, keep moving your torch and when the Tempil turns black - quickly drop it into a bucket of ice water. Make sure you change the ice water when it starts to warm up

Forget about the shades of red cause your in the 1000* F range then.

PS: Don't buy the Tempilstick stuff cause it is a PITA to work with!

[montana_charlie]

Use the Tempil Liquid which turns black at 650*.

Forget about the shades of red cause your in the 1000* F range then.

Don't buy the Tempilstick stuff cause it is a PITA to work with!

I totally agree with all three of those suggestions, although I haven't tried the liquid.
I did try to use the 'stick' type, and it was an impossible deal.

Lee makes the shell holder that chucks in a drill. It is part of their case length trimming setup, and you can buy the individual parts on their website.

Stay away from all shades of red. If you are watching that Tempil liquid, waiting for it to change, keep your other eye on the case mouth. If it starts showing red, you have damaged the case.

Since my 'stick' wouldn't work for me, I went by case color...and stopped at 'blue'.

BTW...the water bucket is not a necessity. A water 'quench' is not required to cause the brass to anneal. But, it is a handy way to drop a hot case in a place where the brass doesn't get dented...and it cools the case before heat can migrate into the head.
CM

[trooperdan]

I've found it works well to bring your lead pot to the desired temp and hold the case with your bare fingers right by the head. When it gets too hot to hold, drop it in the water. Templaq is optional with my method, YMMV.

[mooman76]

I've found it works well to bring your lead pot to the desired temp and hold the case with your bare fingers right by the head. When it gets too hot to hold, drop it in the water. Templaq is optional with my method, YMMV.

Don't you have a problem with lead sticking to the brass? I've never tried this way!

[McLintock]

Thanks for the replies, now, where do I find that Tempil liquid, I've got everything ready to go but don't have any of that. Does Brownells or Midway carry it, when I start doing expensive 38-55 basic and 38-50 Remington brass, I definitely want to do it right.
McLintock

[Boz330]

Brownell's has it.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

My good friend and spotter, Jim Terry, makes a very handy tool its made out of turned alum and a 45 cal cartridge sides into it. it has stem on one end that will chuck up into your electric drill.

My torch is in a darkened room and is clamped to the bench the set up is moved into the flame until just the hint of a color change then dropped into a bucket no water, just Air cooled, this allows for a very moderate-mild annealing.

Jim Adverts in the BPCR News SPG's magazine.


Kenny Wasserburger

[John Boy]

where do I find that Tempil liquid

McLintock, I posted the direct link to buyTempil at MSC in my post. Just click on it and it puts you directly to the product and you can put your order in the order cart.

[John Boy]

If you are watching that Tempil liquid, waiting for it to change, keep your other eye on the case mouth. If it starts showing red, you have damaged the case.

Charlie, you'll never have a damaged case if you use a wide torch tip (not with the fan adapter on it) and keep moving the flame. Don't use the pencil point tip

I start with the flame at the mark with the Tempil and move back and forth DOWN towards the mouth. Key is to not hold the flame in one spot on the case

Instead of using a flame, I've dipped the case into a pot of lead melt. Found that some lead sticks to the case and is a pure pain to remove

[montana_charlie]

I have a ShopSmith woodworking multitool which can be configured like a horizontal boring machine.

With it set for slowest RPM, and the quill stop adjusted, I can extend a rotating case into the flame of a propane torch which is angled at 45 degrees to the case...angling toward the mouth.

As the case is horizontal, heat migration toward the base is minimized. When the quill is retracted, and the collar on the Lee shellholder loosened, the case is allowed to drop (through the bars of the machine) into a five gallon water bucket.

Since the case always spins at the same speed, the torch is stationary, and the case always enters the flame to the same depth, it only takes a few cycles to get the 'timing' down to produce that 'blue' color. Then all I have to do is extend the quill and count.

This is not a setup which makes an annealing job especially 'fast'...but it's very uniform (if you don't lose count).
CM

[lovedogs]

In the good ol' days before we had all the nice stuff you've all mentioned we simply stood cases in a pan of water and heated the necks with a small propane torch until they started to change color. When they start to discolor you just tip the case over into the water. No chance of having the heat travel too far this way. Not as sophisticated as the new methods but it worked.

[SharpsShooter]

In the good ol' days before we had all the nice stuff you've all mentioned we simply stood cases in a pan of water and heated the necks with a small propane torch until they started to change color. When they start to discolor you just tip the case over into the water. No chance of having the heat travel too far this way. Not as sophisticated as the new methods but it worked.

The method you mention is all I have ever known.. I wasn't aware there was a magic potion to be used. Guess I need to get out more......


SS

[montana_charlie]

we simply stood cases in a pan of water

I think that method can be very effective if you don't go for the 'red' color that the old books advised. In order to heat all sides of the mouth evenly, it might work to have the pan sitting on an LP turntable, spinning at 33 1/3 rpm.
CM

[trooperdan]

Someone asked earlier if I had trouble with lead sticking to the cases when I used a lead pot to anneal. Short answer is "no". Any lead that does adheer is easily wiped off. I have heard recommendations of wipoing a thin film of oil on the area ro be softened bu I haven't trie it or found it necessary.

[martinibelgian]

Trooperdan,
Are you using pre lead or an alloy?

[crossfireoops]

If you're lookin' for as close to absolute temp. control, dipping.......
Niter salts are very, very good.......My shop pot is an old 10# Lyman pot, acoutred with a foam sealed cover, for storage. I use a lab grade thermometer, and find that even with the primitive "Make and break" thermostat that I can get pretty good temp control......and it's great for drawing temper in home crafted springs.

Never tried it for case annealing. Been tipping 'em over into the pan fulla' water, with no complaints............but than, I never mess with the necks either....pretty much sold on thumbseating.

It's worth having that niter bluing setup around, for general small ( and real Pretty) bluing chores, the spring tempering is an added advantage......now it looks like another good reason just materialized. I'm settin' upa new rifle, and will use this setup to case anneal the new brass.

Thoughts on optimum temperature sollicited.

Thanks, GTC

GTC