Long range with cast boolits

[nueces5]

Hello everyone, as I put in my signature and some of you already know, I live in Argentina. It's hard to get (and pay for) jwords hornady or sierra, if you can find them at all.
So some of us who are doing long range, we are looking fondly at the boolits. I started with my 1909 mauser in 7.65x54, with relative success, using the lyman 314299.
I also used the lyman 311466 up to 600 meters, in my 308 win. Beyond that distance it gets complicated for me, since it is difficult to make it go faster than 2400-2500 fps and have precision.
I have a cz 550 varmint rifle, with a twist rate of 1:12, has anyone tested with a different weight of boolits at long range? I liked how the loverin design of the 311466 works and I was thinking of buying and trying the 311467, or the 311299, of 178 and 200 grains respectively.
Thoughts?

[wilecoyote]

not being able to work on speed, I would aim for as much weight as possible first, stuffing the nose of the longer bullet as far as I can, but you probably know better than me.
I have never even seen the 600yds...

[Ford SD]

with the 1/12 twist if you tie your shoelaces just right you should be able to reach 2300 fps

as well as everything else

heavy bullet / best shape / highest BC / best fit / best prepped brass / best shooter / best powder / best rifle for the job

[BLAHUT]

1/12 I BELIEVE YOU NEED TO STAY WITH LIGHTER BULLETS YOU CAN PLAY WITH THE SPEED AND GET SOME A LITTLE HEAVERIOR TO FLY?? I BELIEVE IF YOU WANT TO PUSH CAST BULLETS HARD YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE VERY HARD CAST LINOTYPE MONOTYPE ???
I SHOOT LONGRANGE IN A 45/70 WITH 500GR BULLETS IN SOFT LEAD AT ABOUT 1200fps VERY ACCURATE OUT TO 1000YDS - 1000METERS

[Hick]

I have used the 311467 in my 1909 Argentine Mauser (engineers carbine version) but haven't tried for such long distance (our range only goes to 400 yards). Seems to work pretty good. The nice thing about it is that you have a lot of flexibility in how much lube you use. I lube mine about halfway so that there isn't much lube outside the case. I also use the 314299 a lot, as well as the 314135. For all of mine I use gas checks and a medium lube (home mix of beeswax, paraffin and vaseline).

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t have the luxury of being able to shoot at long range these days . The best is 100m. However, I follow a lot of of people on the internet who do. It seems to me if you want to go long range you want a heavier boolit. When I was hunting carabou at 200+m I always used a 180 grain 30.06 jacketed bullet. That was before I started casting. I just saw this video of an 03.A3, the center fire gun I grew up with. I think in the video, they were shooting 150grain ball rounds and implied they were better than heavier bullets. Perhaps looking for a heavier boolit isn’t what you need for the Argentin Mauser. Everyone have a look and give me your options.
https://youtu.be/J6GcCyLnT60

[Larry Gibson]

Beyond 600 meters will be a challenge. Best bet is the 311299 or the 314299 (if the nose fits the throat allowing proper seating in the 308W) as they will have the best BCs for the longer ranges. In the CZ 308W rifle with 12" twist 2300 -2400 fps is possible with sufficient accuracy.

However, to do so will require casting quality match grade cast bullets. It will require the use of slow burning powders such as 4350, RL19, H4831, H4831SC or RL22.

[nueces5]

Thank you all for the opinions, that video that shoots without a riflescope makes me feel blind! My eyes have depended on glasses for a long time. It shows how well built and practical the rifles of that time were.
I think I've read that 314299 is a bore rider, that means you have to set the nose at the beginning of the grooves. I'll have to start reading about it.
I have a winchester 760 for work, and a cci 200 at horndy brass.
I'll start testing the charges and let you guys know how it goes.

[rockrat]

Maybe the Saeco 315 or its clone

[charlie b]

Bore rider means the nose of the bullet is in the rifling. I use a bore rider (Accurate 311-210E) in my .308. Powder coat and size the nose to be close fit in the rifling. Seat them so the drive bands are touching the grooves (the ones on the right have a clear coat PC).



With a 1:10 twist I cannot go above 2000fps without sacrificing some accuracy. That means I am limited to 500yd (bullet goes subsonic after that). As Larry mentioned, it takes good bullets to go that fast and that far. I shoot at 300 or 500yd a lot. Every now and then I can get a sub MOA 5 round group, but, most are 1 1/2MOA. My 'fun' targets are soda cans at 300yd.

One of the more important things to do is weight sort your bullets in 0.1gn batches.

[405grain]

The Lyman #311299 and the #314299 are practically the same bullet. The 311299 was designed for .308" barrels, and the 314299 is for .312" barrels. If you compare the two you'll see that ballistically there's not much difference between the two. I haven't shot long range, but using a 1909 Argentine Mauser barrel on a 1908 Brazilian Mauser action, I've found that powder coating and sizing the 311299 to .312" diameter makes it a very good fit for a 7.65x53. Another boolit that I've had success with in 7.65x53 has been the Lyman #311284. Gas checked, powder coated, and sized to .312", the 210 grain round nose 311284 has been very accurate for me. I have not shot beyond 200 yards, but so far heavy cast bullets that are intended for .308 barrels, (cast at about .310 in my alloy), which are then powder coated and sized to .312", have worked really good in my rifle.

[nueces5]

I really appreciate the comments, I think what I will do is the following.
Make a new batch of 314299, I'll put the gascheck on it (I make my own aluminum gaschecks) and I'll make a light PC. After that I will classify them by weight,
The sizing will be 309 with orange magic lubricant, which is what I get here, I pass the brass through Lyman's M die. Then I will measure to see how far out I can put them from the neck and I will arm them with win 760. Let's see what happens

[pworley1]

What is the oal of your most accurate rounds?

[charlie b]

If you want to try another lube I have had good luck with Ben's Red.

50% beeswax
30% Red, Tacky Lucas High Temp Grease
10% Johnson's Paste Wax
5% Dexron II or Dexron III Trans. Fluid
5% STP Oil Treatment

I know Ben also shoots a .308 with the Saeco 315 mold. IIRC he lubes the bullets in the sizer, then tumble lube. I use 45-45-10 when using this method (45% Lee Liquid Alox, 45% Johnson's Paste Wax, 10% Mineral Spirits). A VERY thin coat or two and let dry. Makes bullets not tacky.

I'll also be interested in how WW760 does with these bullets. I've used Varget before and it works OK, but, I'd rather save it for my jacketed loads

[akajun]

Me personally Id look into swaging. Lots of old school prone and benchrest shooters used to make their own bullets until guys like Walt Berger started making bullets good enough for them.