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Thread: Initial test results from annealing some boolits

  1. #1
    Boolit Master 357shooter's Avatar
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    Initial test results from annealing some boolits

    Annealing Lead Alloy for Softer Boolits - The Approach

    This is taken from my blog, thought some folks might be interested:

    IMPORTANT: FYI, the blog mentioned is specifically focused on 357 Magnum. That's the point of view behind everything written in it and below, revolver means 357 Magnum.

    Since my supplier of pure lead is drying up, the problem is how get bullets of BHN 8 or less casting with wheel weights. Softer lead bullets provide consistent accuracy, as compared to BHN 11, or 16 or harder. A well designed bullet, sized to perform in your revolver (often .360 works, but some revolvers vary) can produce great groups, even if it's a harder than BHN 8. However, softer alloys produce better groups, and do it more consistently.

    Strange as it sounds, the process to soften wheel weight alloy bullets is much like the process to harden them. The difference is, to soften the bullets, they don't get quenched in cold water.

    The goal of the test, is to verify that bullets can be softened to BHN 8, or as close to it as possible. If they can be softened, does it last more than a few days or does it last for weeks. Since it takes a long time to verify test results, it will be about a month before I can post the resulting data.

    The process is to heat the bullets in the oven, then turn it off and let them cool to room temp. It can take a couple of hours to cool slowly.

    The initial results will be for pure wheel weights, additional tests will verify the impact of adding additional tin. Which is reported to soften the bullets even more. Pretty great if it all works out.

    The planned test will:

    1) Heat bullets in the oven, set to 450 degrees, for 30 min
    2) Turn it off, let the entire oven with bullets inside cool to room temp
    3) Test the bullets hardness before heating, after heating and then at 7 day intervals
    4) Report the results here


    To achieve the best accuracy, shooting a softer alloy makes all the difference. That is, in 357 magnums of course. Not that I'm closed minded, but it is the most fun caliber to cast, handload and shoot, bar none.


    Annealing Lead Alloy for Softer Boolits - First Results

    The cast bullets used in this test were annealed for 30 minutes at 450 degrees. The oven was turned off, with the bullets inside, until cooled.

    Here is the data in chart format:



    This particular air cooled wheel weight alloy tested as 10.4 BHN, the day after casting. A bit hard, but in the range of modern day wheel weights. After six weeks and just prior to annealing they tested at 14.2. Immediately after cooling they dropped to 8.2. That's a pretty big drop in hardness. After 7 days they age harden back to the 10.4 as-cast hardness.

    I plan to test them again next week to verify just how they continue to harden.

    It's a nice surprise that the hardness dropped to 8.2, just what I had hoped for. As you can tell, they don't stay there long. If you cast & load with a just in time approach, this can be very helpful. If you cast thousands of bullets to be loaded over the next year, you can still anneal in smaller batches, as needed.

    It's encouraging to know that the wheel weights can be softened. The consistency and accuracy achieved in a 357 Magnum with softer lead is measurable and noticeable.

    I plan to roll this new-found-knowledge into my current casting-handloading-shooting schedule. Currently I cast 5-10 lbs of a given bullet, let them age for 2 weeks, lube & size them. At that point they are ready to load then shoot. Usually lasting for 2-4 weeks. That's with 2 different bullet designs going, shooting 200-250 total rounds a week it works. Now I'll anneal-lube-size a week in advance for bullets that need to be a softened up.

    Hope this helps and gets you to 1 ragged hole at 25 yards in your 357.
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  2. #2
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    I think you're going to get some interesting responses.

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    I have always wondered what happens to the hardness of you boiled the bullets in water for an our of so then let the water and bullets cool slowly. I would imagine it would soften the bullets some. I don't have a hardness tester so I have never tried this.
    I do think it is interesting that the initial annealed hardness is the same as the initial air cooled hardness.

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    This is about what I would expect.

    I would bet they will end up around 12 bhn. This is consistent with the 24 month post treatment results I have for annealed bullets.

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    Thankfully, I am no longer able to shoot well enough to tell the difference between the accuracy of an 8 or 14 BNH bullet. Life is much simpler that way.

    357shooter, If you actually use "the schedule" you describe you have not been doing this for very long. It will get real old real quick. If you believe that it is necessary to do that to get an accurate bullet you will never be competitive. When you are pressed for time and cannot follow "the schedule" you will lose confidence in your ammunition and you will shoot poorly.

    It is an interesting exercise, but to support your claim you need to fire 10 - 10 shot groups from a Ransom rest to determine if accuracy is affected. I think you will need that many shots as I doubt there is any affect on accuracy.

    Sometimes I wonder if we over think things. KISS.

    Don

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    You can anneal the boolits, and then put them in the freezer. They will stay soft.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  7. #7
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    wack, what you talkin bout?

    Anneal then freeze, then they stay soft? I thought they were frozen hard? I'm so confused! I'll just stick with the 1-1 ww-Pb with a touch of tin. Then I don't have to worry about age, frozen, annealed, quenched, or whatever! Jeez, now I have a headache again. LOL, 10
    10 gauge: as per Robert Ruark, "use enough gun"

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    357shooter

    That is useful information. Some might not think so but any knowledge gained by a controlled and well done experiment like yours will provide useful information. Whether one wants to use it or not does not reflect on the information obtained. Would be interesting if you do this again to also track the BHN of hardened bullets and unhardened bullets as a comparison to the annealed bullets. No criticism here just have an inqisitive mind about such is all. Well done.

    Larry Gibson

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    Freezing halts, or extremely slows, the hardening process.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #10
    Boolit Master 357shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Thankfully, I am no longer able to shoot well enough to tell the difference between the accuracy of an 8 or 14 BNH bullet. Life is much simpler that way.

    357shooter, If you actually use "the schedule" you describe you have not been doing this for very long. It will get real old real quick. If you believe that it is necessary to do that to get an accurate bullet you will never be competitive. When you are pressed for time and cannot follow "the schedule" you will lose confidence in your ammunition and you will shoot poorly.

    It is an interesting exercise, but to support your claim you need to fire 10 - 10 shot groups from a Ransom rest to determine if accuracy is affected. I think you will need that many shots as I doubt there is any affect on accuracy.

    Sometimes I wonder if we over think things. KISS.

    Don
    Thanks for the comments. The schedule is actually very convenient for me, for now. When it's no longer working out, I'll change.

    Since I shoot at the range year-round, the same amount year-round, it's just how I do it. The other big factor is I'm fickled about what I want to shoot, even specializing in one caliber I seem to find ways to change something up. Having a bunch of older stuff laying around results in me dumping them into the pot again.

    As far as never being competitive, I'm good with that as I don't compete.

    As far as testing goes, I do a lot of it and my results are what they are. Your disagreement is noted, but doesn't change the test results.

    Added later: I cast - load -shoot 1,000 rounds a month. Every month, it varies a bit little bit, but not much. Not monster volume, but not trivial either.
    Last edited by 357shooter; 04-11-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by btroj View Post
    I have always wondered what happens to the hardness of you boiled the bullets in water for an our of so then let the water and bullets cool slowly. I would imagine it would soften the bullets some. I don't have a hardness tester so I have never tried this.
    I do think it is interesting that the initial annealed hardness is the same as the initial air cooled hardness.
    The water test would be interesting.

    On the hardness, the annealed hardness is actually 20% less than the original cast hardness. At least that's the way I intended it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    You can anneal the boolits, and then put them in the freezer. They will stay soft.
    Thanks, that is useful! I'll be freezing them soon.
    Last edited by 357shooter; 04-16-2011 at 07:18 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 ga View Post
    Anneal then freeze, then they stay soft? I thought they were frozen hard? I'm so confused! I'll just stick with the 1-1 ww-Pb with a touch of tin. Then I don't have to worry about age, frozen, annealed, quenched, or whatever! Jeez, now I have a headache again. LOL, 10
    The whole problem is, no more Pb... It would still be a fun test, but it has a practical side to it too. My source has run dry, for now.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master 357shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    357shooter

    That is useful information. Some might not think so but any knowledge gained by a controlled and well done experiment like yours will provide useful information. Whether one wants to use it or not does not reflect on the information obtained. Would be interesting if you do this again to also track the BHN of hardened bullets and unhardened bullets as a comparison to the annealed bullets. No criticism here just have an inqisitive mind about such is all. Well done.

    Larry Gibson
    Thanks. Tracking the BHN of hardened, unhardened, annealed, and frozen might be good...

    Need to put some thought into that.
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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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