410 loading ?'s and chronoing?

[357maximum]

357 Max:

Sounds like another Group Buy that I can't afford but can't afford not too.
I'm in>>>>>>>>> Don

Maybe we could get lee to make us the 410 mold in single cavity,,,and talk ol buckshot into hollowbasing all the molds...a single cavity mold/setup fee/buckshots fee may all add up to a cost prohibitive factor seeing as how interest would be minimal...but ..a true .412-230 grain hollowbased Foster ala.. Ranch dog tumblelube like design would make me happy as a lark.

I have an old savage model 58 in 410 that wears a scope and bent bolt handle...I wouls love to try these in...

Michael

[45 2.1]

LEE will make any practical hollow base slug you want. I've been in on two such buys. Normal fee of $100 setup and normal mold price. Should be no problem to get this done. You just need to spec it out.

[357maximum]

LEE will make any practical hollow base slug you want. I've been in on two such buys. Normal fee of $100 setup and normal mold price. Should be no problem to get this done. You just need to spec it out.

Sweeeet....learn something new everyday.....this issue will be looked into further....


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I wonder what the possibility of getting 10 or so buyers to split the setup on this would be.......

[Lightning Ross]

C+H die company makes a crimp die that is use for putting crimps on brass 45long colt that the mounted shooters use for there blanks It is also used for the 5n1 ( longer)blanks used for the lever action rifles.Looks just like a22 bird shot shell. Might work for a 410.Only problem is you dont reload the brass more than twice the crimp weakens and the it breaks off . Not good shooting from a running horse with spectators on all sides.

[Greg]

my 410...well, it was my Grandpa’s first ( marked 12mm ) has a 2½" chamber, so I used .444 marlin brass cases. The 303 cases didn’t work so good!

.410 Brass case Load

* see Lyman 42nd Handbook and Hodgdon’s 25th pg 442.

R-P .444 cases

R-P Large Pistol primer

14.5 grains H110

⅛" card wad; ¼" filler wad

⅝ oz shot; and a card over-shot wad glued in with super glue. I couldn’t find any ‘water glass’!!

Taper crimp with a 45 ACP die.


I had picked up some Alcan ‘.45 pistol’-‘Special Wads for brass cases’ at a Gun Show. tried the 303 brass, I wasn’t thrilled with the results. I bought .444 Marlin brass, it works even though it’s a 2 + 7/32" length.

http://www.circlefly.com/ lists wads for brass cases. Hornady brought out their 405 cases ( 2½") and then the metric 9.3x74 R if you want a 3" case.

A Lyman 45 ACP carbide die does the sizing; I took a extra decaping stem adapter and made a wad seating stem using a long pan head machine screw and jam nut. The Lyman die is bored straight thru then threaded 9/16th’s for the adapter...RCBS is threaded a lot smaller and won’t full length size a 2½"case.

I use store bought boolits in my .410...the package is labeled ‘ Lawrence Brand chilled 8's’

[OLPDon]

Maybe we could get lee to make us the 410 mold in single cavity,,,and talk ol buckshot into hollowbasing all the molds...a single cavity mold/setup fee/buckshots fee may all add up to a cost prohibitive factor seeing as how interest would be minimal...but ..a true .412-230 grain hollowbased Foster ala.. Ranch dog tumyblelube like design would make me happy as a lark.

I have an old savage model 58 in 410 that wears a scope and bent bolt handle...I wouls love to try these in...

Michael

I would think with all the imput and and what has been done in the line of this we not only could come up with a outstanding mould but also a Case/Hull that would work best and get the most out of it (ie most reloadable). This project need not be rushed it would give many of us time to put on the thinking caps, and if Lee is willing to make Hollow Base mould. This could be project dedicated to Cast Booits Forum. Make it the "Castboolit Spl. in 410" or some catchy name just from this Great Forum with Great Guys ect.
As I am sure like most of us our $$$$$$$ have been somewhat depleted due to all these wonderful Group Buys that we surly can not do without. I am sure for those with "She who must be Obeyed" at home signing that UPS/USPS recieved form, will have limited understand how badly we need this. Much as we, deep within our hearts say how many Pocketbooks and or shoes do you realy need?
Heck it should make for a long post at the least. And seeing we could make it rather soft we could cast it on Buffalo Chips. Hmmmmmmm that sounds like a title to me.
"Buffalo Chips Cast Boolit spl in 410"
Don....................

[Old Ironsights]

I still like .410 SLAM...

THE key is going to be finding the exact depth of hollow base to create Foster Stabilization out of a smoothbore. Without that, the mold would be useless to anyone without a choked gun.

I don't have the right engineering software/formulae to calculate the center-of-mass/gravity from raw dimensions.

The current educated SWAG is a hollow 2/3 the OAL of the bullet - which means either a LONG bullet or very thin skirt. Of course, the skirt can't bee TOO thin or it will blow out.

I'm thinking that an Ogival Wadcutter with a crimp groove for use with .444 brass (at .25" for an OAL of 2.50?) and a single lube groove.

Biggest problem is in sizing the cases down to a .41x slug. IIRC Sized .444 has an ID of .43x and CBC .410 brass is unsized at ID .437. That's a lot of down-sizing/taper crimp.


Any Mod out there want to make a .410 SLAM Design/Testing Sticky Thread?

[45 2.1]

What we need is some examples from the Lyman 410 slug mold. Factory slugs could be measured also and larger slugs could be measured and scaled down. None of this is beyond doing.

[Old Ironsights]

How about this?



Anybody got the engineering software/calculus skills to figure the mass & center of gravity of this thing?

[45 2.1]

Good examples. The only problem is the cavity, it is straight sided and is the result of a swageing die. A cast projectile will need a tapered plug since the LEE setup is not removable and would not release a deep straight sided plug. But this enough to go from provided you have a particular sytle in mind. A think a mix of styles here would work.

Anybody got the engineering software/calculus skills to figure the mass & center of gravity of this thing?

Not really a problem, but not needed either as these are foster type slugs and behave as a shuttlecock does.

[Old Ironsights]

I will adjust the plug to a taper. How many degrees do you think would be enough?

Doesn't a Foster's center of mass/gravity have to be fairly well defined to prevent tumbling?

ANyway, it appears we are neighbors? I might have to come visit you...

[45 2.1]

I'm about 6 hrs south of you on I-57. I think measureing and scaling down any of the larger Lyman slug molds will give us the right taper which is probably going to be about 5 degrees included. I have the 20, 16 and both 12s. You got any of 410 Slams or Dougs Slugs and have you used them? No chances should be taken here as we want a stabile accurate slug. Your 410 Slam is pretty close to the Lyman 41027 HB mold which I have. It could be used for testing in the 410.

[Old Ironsights]

.410 SLAM is my SWAG.

I don't have any of Doug's Slugs, which ARE swaged, but I got a cut-away of his design from another website and scaled it as a starting point for the SLAM.

Here is a quickie update using a 3deg taper for the pin:

[357maximum]

This is getting me excited fellas,,but as it was stated,,,,no need to hurry,, my gunstuff funds are uhhh getting a little depleted also...

Bob

would the TL design make it a little easier drop from the mold...from my experience with lees hollow base/point molds...you need all the release help you can get...

the only slug molds i have in my posession right now are the 12/20 gauge airgun pellet designs from lyman...

and for what it's worth guys...ballistic products sells a .410 roll crimper...for the plastic hulls...I have one...it may have come from reloading specialties...I cannot quite remember...

there is also a wildcat .411 JDJ out there...I have the cartridge drawing here somewhere...maybe that might be something to look at as far a the sizing die issue...I believe RCBS has or had these dies...I will do some looking...it is a 444 based wildcat just like the rest of the JDJ series..

Michael

[45 2.1]

would the TL design make it a little easier drop from the mold...from my experience with lees hollow base/point molds...you need all the release help you can get... Michael

The sprue is cut, then the mold is opened and the core pin causes the boolit to come away from either side and there is no drop problems, other than getting the boolit off a deep core plug. If you were to tumble lube the boolit, the tumble lube grooves wouldn't hurt anything I believe, but that could be tested with what we got. The point is to not hurry and get it right the first time.

[Old Ironsights]

You can get the Roll Crimper from Graf & Sons, along with some really excellent (from what I've been told) 3" high-brass (16mm) primed hulls by Cheddite.

[357maximum]

The sprue is cut, then the mold is opened and the core pin causes the boolit to come away from either side and there is no drop problems, other than getting the boolit off a deep core plug. If you were to tumble lube the boolit, the tumble lube grooves wouldn't hurt anything I believe, but that could be tested with what we got. The point is to not hurry and get it right the first time.

Head up my colon.....AGAIN....sorry.....was not thinkin too hard or was I thinkin too hard ...who knows... I was remembering wrong...it is the core pin I had issues with...got too keep that pin HOTTTT...

Get it right the first time....sounds like an excellent plan...

[Pilgrim]

.410 Roll Crimper

Graf & Sons = $42.95
Ballistic Products = $39.95
Precision Reloading = $24.95

Store bought .410 slugs all appear to be around 100 gr. A .375 round ball is ~90 gr, so we are better off loading multiple RB's than a single slug. Slug velocity (Brenneke = 1775 fps) is higher, but with slugs only weighing 100 gr. I'm sure we could accomplish the same with our reloads. A 200 gr. slug similar to that design above should be able to reach ~1500 fps, which would put it in the .44 mag. power range.

Buckshot - You given any thought to making roll crimps? If somebody would loan us one we could use as a pattern, I'm sure we could make them pretty easily.

Pilgrim

[357maximum]

.

Buckshot - You given any thought to making roll crimps? If somebody would loan us one we could use as a pattern, I'm sure we could make them pretty easily.

Pilgrim

If he will .....I have one to loan...

I will add this.....the .410 I have has one roll pin through the side...that is what does the rolling....on my 20 gauge roller there is two pins...the two pins works a ton better than the one pin...and I bet 3 pins set 120 degrees would work better yet...I have an old handcrank 12 gauge roller that has three "bumps" in the brass sleeve...it outperforms the newer drill versions by far in the quality/consistency of the finished roll crimp...

the roll crimper would be a simple job on the lathe and a few minutes drilling the holes for the pins...proably a less than an hour invested in the first one and far less than that for the rest.................they are a pretty simple looking little tool.....

Michael

[357maximum]

B.t.t.t