Hollow Point Deer

[Bass Ackward]

I took a 280 grain Keith in a 44 Mag that I hollow pointed slightly (7 grains of lead removal) and used it on a deer. This was only a 1100 fps load. Bullets were my 14 BHN ACWW mix. So I was a little apprehensive that I wasn't doing all I could do until I saw the results.

The buck was bedded 40 yards from me below a ridge. And as I crested, we spotted each other at the same time. The sun shown clearly on his horns, making them seem larger than they eventually turned out to be. We both saw the expressions on our faces change for different reasons. He bolted, I drew. By the time of the shot, he was flat out running with his head down across my front, from left to right, leaving the area fast. I would like to tell you that I planned the shot and aimed, but I don't remember. It just happened. Thank God for Peep sights!

At the bang, he was in a full stretch stride all fours off the ground and there was no sign of a flinch. When his fronts came down, his backs were coming forward to join them. It would be the last of this motion I would ever see before he left me altogether. As it turned out, they just went through the motion of continuing the run. There was no power in the bolt and he lost altitude like a plane until he piled up. He flipped over once and then rolled twice in the direction of travel and then his carcus turned and started to roll down athe hill (steep ground) until he came to rest against a tree.

He was dress and hung not 30 minutes later and with it, the hide removed. The shot had hit nothing vital as all organs were hole, say for the stomach that had been clipped. The bullet entered the left rear mid body of the deer and progressed up through where the lungs .... should have been. It exited on the far chest just behind the shoulder leaving a 2 1/2 to 3 inch exit hole with only minor clotting. Blood had been thrown for 30 ft and was on trees everywhere.

The mix should have been too hard for the velocity. And this was not a wide meplat design by any definition. The velocity should have been higher regardless as the caliber gave me that option, yet the hole was impressive. Was the shallow hollowpointing responsible for the damage and the result if no organs were added to the expansion equasion? I can't tell on just one deer, but I never cut a 3" hole with a handgun before and certainly not at this low of a velocity. I will take a picture later if it helps.

[Glen]

Based on your description, some large blood supply was interupted, and from the shot placement I would guess either the liver or the major arteries that are just under the spine. It sounds kinda like your bullet belled somewhat, but might not have folded back into a mushroom. The bottom line is that it killed your buck quickly and cleanly, and from the shot placement you described, it sounds like very little meat was ruined.

Congratulations!

[JDL]

Congrats Bass! How wide and deep was the hp? As you well know, velocity isn't always the answer. -JDL

[MT Chambers]

Congratulations...your results are somewhat similar to mine.....shot a large buck with Lyman Gould hollowpoint in 45/70 cast soft, 68grs Swiss 1 1/2fg. Hit dead on South end of a north bound buck, bullet exited front of hip, ruined 1/4, animal dropped and died instantly! Canadian deer aren't that tough.

[Bass Ackward]

Congrats Bass! How wide and deep was the hp? As you well know, velocity isn't always the answer. -JDL

JD,

The bullet along with the hollow point was the same measely little hole that I showed a picture of in the thread "Hangun Accuracy Shocker" in the cast bullets section on page 3.

What is perhaps the most unusual about this is that normally when you see a 3" hole, you expect to see massive blood cloting of say up to 12" around the exit would after the animal has been skinned. This was unusually small. Clearly this is not what I would have expected to have seen.

What this starts is another question for thought, actually how large of a hole in a hollow point is necessary to produce a good killing effect?


Glen,

You are maybe correct in both of your assumptions. There was no meat ruined at all. (Pure luck) And .... it may have caused a massive loss in blood flow that resulted in the fairly fast kill.

But no major organs showed any sign of a hit as I looked and studied them. I always do. I use this information to improve my technique and load. This was a poor case though, as I am not sure that anything can be garnered from this data at this point. Nothing dies that fast on a consistent basis.

[Glen]

Sure sounds like spinal shock and rupture of the major arteries under the spine. Spinal shock (even without the spine being hit directly) will fold an animal up, right now.

[Glen]

Alternate hypothesis -- I went back and looked at the picture of your bullet - what do you think about the possibility that the off-center cavity might make the bullet rotationally unstable upon impact, and that it started tumbing once it hit your buck? How straight was the wound channel?

[45stomp]

Nice shot Bass
Just a thought.........is it possible that the buck had just exhaled as the boolit hit and the large exit wound caused the lungs to collapse without any damage to the lung tissue? That would likely stop him pretty fast. It doesn't sound like a shock to the spine as you did not mention the instant pancaking that I would expect from spinal shock. It sounded, from your description, that he just quickly ran out of steam, but did not flop like he'd been electocuted. Strange.
Darn fine shooting though
Stomp

[Bass Ackward]

Just a thought.........is it possible that the buck had just exhaled as the boolit hit and the large exit wound caused the lungs to collapse without any damage to the lung tissue?

Stomp,

He had evidently been bedded all day and was .... full in many ways. With the effort he was giving on his flight out of the area, every bodily function that you can imagine was being done. So he could have exhalled at the right time for sure. But the lungs just poured out if that helps. That was the only noticeable damage beside the stomach clip.


Glen,

Wound channel appeared straight as I can tell. And once it cleared the entrance structure and broke into the lugs, it probably traveled about 15" through nothing but air before it left out. So it could have been tumbling. But if it was, the exit is fairly round, so apparently it would have had to have been close to correct at that point I would think.

Just .... one .... of those TV type shots that seldom occur with this low of a velocity little alone cast. But I do intend to do some expansion testing here later this spring or if I can get some above freezing temperatures later this winter. Too many projects. I ran out of time before this season and wasn't even going to use the hadgun until I got the accuracy I wanted without fliers.

[45stomp]

My mistake Bass, I thought you meant the lungs were untouched, pink and pristine Interesting that the low velocity and that BHN did so much damage.
Stomp

[Bass Ackward]

My mistake Bass, I thought you meant the lungs were untouched, pink and pristine Interesting that the low velocity and that BHN did so much damage.
Stomp

Stomp,

Well we cut him up yesterday. The bullet hit right at the end of the rib cage, just in back of where the lungs attach. Bone fragment must have done most of the lung damage as well as clipped the stomach as that should have been back, behind the hit.

What amazes me about this one was that there was so little material after entrance to cause that kind of expansion that was needed for the 3" exit wound which had very little velocity to cause cloting more than two inches around the wound. Never saw this before from ACWW at this low of a velocity. I am going to attempt to try it for a chest shot on a couple of doe. See what happens.

[TCLouis]

with a drill bit several years ago. Hit a deer with a broadside shot at about 35 yards. The damage of the off side ribs was the worst I have ever seen, I will look for the pictures and scan them.
Boolit was moving about 1250 at the muzzle and the hole he drilled was NOT all that big but . . . .

Maybe there was a reason Lyman used the word Devastator for the abreviated line of HPs they offer, because they have grea big holes in the front.

[lovedogs]

I think you hit on an idea there, Bass. Flying bone chips can do lots of damage. The bullet was the primary projectile but those many bone fragments were secondary projectiles and they acted much like shot from a shotgun. Great shooting! The Duke would be proud of you! I'm sold on good cast lead bullets on deer in a handgun.