"Clean" burning powders

[Jack Stanley]

OK, I checked the burn rate chart and couldn't make it out. What is "PB"?

A Dupont powder . I think the PB means porous base .

Jack

[SciFiJim]

OK, I found it. It's an IMR powder. I never noticed it before. I learned something today.

[Rocky Raab]

PB is the sole remaining example of what was once a line of powders using the then-new porous base technology. Porous powder kernels allowed the technicians to use different additives than merely coatings. That was envisioned as a superior way to tailor ignition, rise rates and burn duration. Other even better methods were soon developed, and the porous line slowly dwindled to just one: PB.

The fact that it is still made attests to its usefulness. It is one of those powders that gets zero attention, but quietly goes about its business with no marketing glitz. Other unassuming powders include 4320, 4756, 7625, and Herco.

[megafatcat]

At the range picking up empties I have noticed Win 9mm brass that was so clean that it looked new on the inside. What powder are they using?

[Mavrick]

Because I had a bunch left over from my trapshooting, I used 700x in my .45ACP and my .41Mag, steel-shooting revolver. (ya don't need magnum loads for THAT, and light stuff is prolly better) I used 700x 'cause it was cleaner than the Red Dot that I wanted to use.
If you want an exercise in frustration, try to get an older gas-operated auto to work with doubles in trap. It'll work just fine, but you'll have to keep an "eye out" during the course of a Grand. That's a lot of shooting at one time.
The switch to revolver rapid-fire games brought similar problems, many of which were solved by the same means. I continued to use 700x, eventho' I like RD. I just need to clean the action more with RD.
I've used a bit of Pearl, as it's advertised to be clean. It also "bulks up" a little better than BE, so tends to give slightly better SDs. Both are very good in the large case I use, even with standard primers.
In a .45ACP, 700x, Pearl, and Clays work great for bulk-shooting, ie steel, as a lot of ammo goes downrange in a short period of time, and it doesn't take long to "gum up the works." I use lead for everything, so lube also becomes important, in this regard.
I shoot trap and steel to shoot more in a short period of time. I just like to shoot!! Competition gives me a method to score skills. Am I good? NO!! But I sure have fun.
All my loading is done on a single-stage press, too. It keeps me away from the TV.
I hope you have as much fun as I do...
Gene

[CATS]

Great info on PB. I was gifted a couple cans of PB and hadn't started any load work with it yet.

For wheel guns, a light/heavy crimp will have some impact on how clean some powders will burn.

CATS

[KYCaster]

I see the same thing in this thread I've run into in every discussion of "clean burning powder".

Are you talking about powders that don't leave any unburned flakes?? Do you mean powders that leave a minimum of ash and combustion residue?? Two very different things.

With a few notable exceptions, most powders will burn completely when used within their appropriate pressure range, but still leave lots of ash and crud to gum up the works.

For example, my S&W 625-8 with fairly generous chamber dimensions. Unique works very well for a wide range of bullet weights and velocities, but doesn't build pressure fast enough to completely expand the brass to seal the chambers. The result is hard extraction and difficult reloading due to combustion residue build up in the chambers after very few rounds. Change to Universal and I can go a hundred or so rounds till I have a problem because it leaves so much less ash than Unique with nearly identical pressure and velocity.

Same deal with an AR. Surplus WC846 should work great...right? After all that's where it came from...pulled down 5.56 ammo.....and its(was) really cheap....but after 50 or so rounds I'd get malfunctions. Scrub the bolt, carrier and chamber,oil liberally and I'm back in business. Well, that will work, but switch to Ramshot X-terminator and I can run 300+ rounds without a hiccup.

Bullseye and Clays is another example. Both will work fine for light loads in a variety of cartridges, but at the end of the day, your gun, your hands, your sand bags....everything will be much cleaner when using Clays.

Oh, get a couple of unburned flakes of AA#5 under your ejector star and see how long it takes to get your wheel gun back in action...normally not a problem with Unique, but can be with Universal.

I could go on, but you get the picture. Some of these effects are very subtle and some are dramatic. Some are not even worth considering for your application and your experience may be completely different than mine, but please do me a favor and tell me what you mean when you mention "clean burning".

Have fun...
Jerry

[Mavrick]

I think we're looking at two, different things.
A noob will look down the barrel and see a couple/few unburned/semiburned flakes and say it's dirty. That stuff gets blown out on the next shot.
I believe what we're talking about, especially competitors that put a lot downrange in a short period, is a light powder that sinksd into every pore and hole of the gun. With a revolver, it will build up in the cylinder/barrel gap and cylinder axis. It'll cause a drag and slow the process down...could even to the point of affecting scores. It'll also get into the trigger works.
In an auto pistol, it'll get in through the action, and mix with lubes and slow the "works." It'll also accelerate wear.
If you're not going to be shooting a lot, such as hunting, or a little plinkin', it won't matter much, 'cause you'll be cleaning the gun before long. If you don't get into the small parts, it'll stack up over the years. We've all bought or handled a gun that was so bunged up it almost wouldn't shoot, but when we got in and cleaned it, it worked just dandy.
The initial problems with the ARs was a very dirty powder, and the gas system that focused the residue into the action. That's the reason I would never own an auto rifle that didn't have a piston system, if my butt would be 'on the line.'
I was a small arms repairman from '65 thru '68 and cried for so many guys, some friends, that found a problem at the wrong time. Many guys would clean/reclean their weapon at every break. That powder is no longer being used, so the problem is lessened. Also the humidity is different in the latest rendition of conflict. That's also the reason for the a1, the little 'jack handle' on the side.
Any conflict I get into now would be of very short duration.
The residue seems to be caused by the retardant, as new componants seem to cause less in the newer powders, if it's important, such as military ammo.
Scott Powders advertised cleaner powders because of better nitocelluose, cotton instead of wood, and therefor better for trap or skeet shooters. That technology is easily applied to pistols. Scott powders seem cleaner in my .45 and .40s. Many times I believe there is an increase in flash, but I don't compete at night, so there is little matter.Have fun,
Gene