Pistol to Rifle converson and back

[DCP]

Can one take a

Ruger Charger 10/22 Pistol put it in a rifle stock
As long as they get a SBR permit

or put on 16 in barrel and a rifle stock

Then return to the original pistol configuration at any time


Thanks

[HATCH]

Yes to all questions

A pistol can be turned into a rifle but a rifle can not be turned into a pistol.

Originally if it was a pistol then it can be returned back to a pistol.

[HATCH]

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=239

[Rocky Raab]

I can't say whether good Mr Hatch is right or wrong. But if you find yourself in handcuffs, remember that "A guy on the internet said it was okay" is not a foolproof defense.

[btroj]

Well stated Rocky. I personally have no desire to become a test case for anything either.

[jhrosier]

....
As long as they get a SBR permit
....

Once you have an approved form 1, you can make an SBR from a rifle or from a handgun.
According to the ATF FAQs, the gun can subsequently be restored to a non-NFA configuration. After the gun is restored to a non-NFA configuration, you can notify the ATF and they will give you a letter stating that the item is no linger regulated by the NFA. The serial number will, however, remain in the NFA registry forever.

I've checked into this as I'm considering applying for approval to build a SBR from a Contender pistol.

Jack

[Gunsmoke4570]

You'd be surprised the number of times I've seen someone at a gunshow with a TC Contender pistol bolted in a rifle stock. They had no clue they we in violation of firearm laws when chatting with them.

[HATCH]

what I said is correct.
Pistol can be made into anything.
A Rifle is always a rifle.

[Moonie]

It is my understanding that TC had a judge rule in its favor over this issue however the ATF still has other thoughts on the matter. There is lots written on the websites of companies that support the TC Contender/Encore about this matter, including TC's website. But they do all say that the ATF has other ideas, even though the matter was concluded as a matter of law in favor of TC and against the ATF. Typical Big Brother knows best syndrome...

Remember, this is my understanding (opinion) on the matter from some investigation into the matter, IANAL however.

[475BH]

If you are going to turn a t/c pistol into a rifle, along w/ the buttstock you also must use a rifle length (16") min. length barrel.
You cannot turn a rifle into a pistol unless you have that permit or stamp from the ATF ( I don't know what it's called).
So, if you purchase the receiver as a pistol, you can change parts at will (see buttstock w/ 16+" barrel for rifle).
A handgun can have as long of a barrel as you like.

[DCP]

Moonie I read that the same way you did

With that being said one has to wonder if the BATF believes they're above the LAW.

There should be no gray here it should be black or white

Either you can or you cant

Who wants to be a test case(wait or is this how they really want it to be gun control by intimidation)

It is my understanding that TC had a judge rule in its favor over this issue however the ATF still has other thoughts on the matter. There is lots written on the websites of companies that support the TC Contender/Encore about this matter, including TC's website. But they do all say that the ATF has other ideas, even though the matter was concluded as a matter of law in favor of TC and against the ATF. Typical Big Brother knows best syndrome...

Remember, this is my understanding (opinion) on the matter from some investigation into the matter, IANAL however.

[C.F.Plinker]

The second posting on this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477943 includes a letter from the BATFE about converting Contenders from pistol to rifle and back again.
The second part of the OP asked about getting a rifle stock and rifle length barrel, making the rifle, and then converting it back to a pistol again. The BATFE letter says that you need to get the Form 1 to go back to a pistol configuration because you are making a pistol from a rifle. The only exception is if you bought all of the parts (lock, stocks, and barrels) at one time as a kit. In that case you can mix and match to your hearts content.

[DCP]

Not sure if this helps me

There is no such thing as a

Ruger Charger 10/22 Pistol-(Rifle KIT)

The second posting on this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=477943 includes a letter from the BATFE about converting Contenders from pistol to rifle and back again.
The second part of the OP asked about getting a rifle stock and rifle length barrel, making the rifle, and then converting it back to a pistol again. The BATFE letter says that you need to get the Form 1 to go back to a pistol configuration because you are making a pistol from a rifle. The only exception is if you bought all of the parts (lock, stocks, and barrels) at one time as a kit. In that case you can mix and match to your hearts content.

[HATCH]

this is the deal.
If the BATFE show up at your house then this would be the least of your worries.

You aren't gonna change configurations in front of them.

So they show up and you have a pistol marked (papered) reciever built as a rifle. Is it against the law - NO

They show up and you have a pistol marked receiver built has a pistol. Is it against the law? - NO

They show up and you have a pistol marked receiver that you had built as a pistol, but had at one time made into a rifle but it is now back as a pistol. Is it against the law? - YES technically it is but how in the hell are they gonna know that it was ever a rifle??? So in reality NO it isn't unless they can prove it was built as a rifle.

They show up and you have a RIFLE marked receiver built into anything but a rifle is it against the law? - YES - once a rifle always a rifle.

The only time you get into trouble with a "pistol" is when you add a buttstock to it and the barrel is less then 16 inches (for a rifle) because that would be classified as a NFA item (short barreled rifle).
It is not against the law to own "pistol" length barrels and only own rifles. It only because a issue when they are assembled.

What you need to remember is that it only matters at the time of inspection what the current configuration is.
If I were to purchase a Thompson Contender then I would have it papered as a pistol. So regardless of the configuration it would be legal.

[Old Ironsights]

It is my understanding that TC had a judge rule in its favor over this issue however the ATF still has other thoughts on the matter. There is lots written on the websites of companies that support the TC Contender/Encore about this matter, including TC's website. But they do all say that the ATF has other ideas, even though the matter was concluded as a matter of law in favor of TC and against the ATF. Typical Big Brother knows best syndrome...

Remember, this is my understanding (opinion) on the matter from some investigation into the matter, IANAL however.

Not just any "Judge". It was a SCOTUS case.

US vs, Thompson Center. http://supreme.justia.com/us/504/505/case.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...r_Arms_Company

[HATCH]

that was interesting to read but doesn't apply here.
It explains why a "kit" isn't offered.
It does not prevent someone from possessing the parts.
I own two ar15s.
One is a SBR with two complete uppers (one in 9mm and one in 223) both have 10.5 inch barrels. (my form 1 has 4 different calibers on it)
The other is a Colt Hbar with a 20 inch barrel.
Am I breaking the law when I take the SBR and the 9mm upper and go shoot but leave the 10.5inch upper with my HBAR(which is assembled with a 20inch barrel) home in the safe with my wife?

My brother Robert owns multiple TCs. Some rifles some pistols. is he breaking the law if he has extra pistol barrels? Is he breaking the law when he sells a rifle barrel and is left with a rifle receiver with buttstock attached with only spare pistol barrels (not installed) but no rifle barrel?

[Geraldo]

It does not prevent someone from possessing the parts.

Might want to read this:

Q: May a FFL or an individual legally possess the parts to manufacture an SBR or SBS as long as no firearms are actually assembled?

A FFL (Type-7 or Type-10) who pays the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) may possess parts required to assemble NFA firearms. A non-licensee or FFL who has not paid the SOT is required to register any NFA firearm via an ATF Form 1 (5320.1) prior to acquisition of the parts required to assemble such firearm.

You've got a stamp for your SBR, so you can do as you please. TCs are a different animal, per the court decision.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...#hunting-usage

[HATCH]

that is a new addition.

That means that all the people that bought AMD-65 kits

and had ak receivers were in violation of the law even if they had no intent to assemble a SBR

Not to argue the point.... but

Based on the above information, any large gun store (non-sot) that stocked TC parts would be in violation of the law.
They would have in their possession TC receivers, complete TCs in pistol form, complete TC rifles, loose buttstocks, pistol barrels, ect.....

That works the same for dealers of AR parts.
Most AR dealers have AR pistols and they sell buttstocks. Combine both of them and you end up with a SBR

Who knows.... its a losing argument.
I will say this..... if they are looking at your rifles to see if they are pistol receivers or rifle receivers then its gonna be the least of your worries. They aren't gonna come look at your stuff over rifle/pistol stuff.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Now you all understand why I do not discuss things like this on the internet.
Talking about how to, at least in theory, build NFA class firearms.

I would bet a hundred dollars, at least one of the posters here is BATFE. Why don't you discuss how you make your own homemade bombs?

Rich

[Doc_Stihl]

I believe the key is being able to create a "legal" firearm with the parts. If you can configure the parts you have to a lawful state, I don't think the fact that you "could" assemble them illegally is a problem. I think if you had an charger barrel and no pistol frame along with a 10/22 rifle, you might have trouble. Same thing with an AR upper. If you possessed a pistol upper, but no pistol lower, and possessed a rifle lower, you could be in hot water.

If I were building an SBR, I wouldn't have a 10" barrel in my possession until the stamp was in hand.