Lyman Slugs running out of ideas!!!

[Beagler]

Have been playing with the lyman Sabot slugs off and on for about three years now not with much success. Have poured with pure PB and WW. The harder lead seems to group better. Been shooting a Moss. 500 slugger and an H and R ultra slugger. Tried AA hulls, rem premier hulls, and tried the Multi Hulls. Used Herco and blueDot powders. Used various types of win wads and the fed wads. All with same result. the wad peddles folding back into the void in the middle of the slug. No real group just random hols all over a sheet of copy paper at 50 yards. Me getting P.O..ed and going out a buying lightfield slugs that group like dream out of the ultra slugger. Came across Navy Guns post from 2009 and he mentioned using the 3 inch hulls and filling the shirt with hot glue to keep it from crushing and keeping the round square down the barrel. Havent tried the 3inch hulls yet but it would make since. A longer C.O.L. in a rifle tends to make the round more accurate since it has a shorter unsupported distance to travel before it engages the rifling. Guess it would hold true in a slugger also. Wish some company would sell a two part flight discarding sabot for it like the lightfields have then would.t have to worry about the wads and could roll crimp them and be done with it. Getting ready to put the Lyman reloading manual back on the book shelf and leaving it there.

[jmsj]

Beagler,
Have you slugged your barrel and measured your wad/slug combination?
I do not shoot a rifled slug barrel and I am definitely not an expert but it sounds like the fit of the slug's foward band and wad are either so tight that the wad fingers are being sheared off or are so loose that they are being rolled back into the recess during firing. Either of these situations would leave the smaller than bore slug to rattle down the barrel. This is just a guess.
I am still trying to get this slug loading figured out too.
Good luck, jmsj

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Beagler, sorry to hear about your bad experiance with Lyman 525 slug in wad. To my thinking you cant be off too far, mostlikely you simply need just slight modification.

Why dont you describe you load data and procedure so we all can help.


You have a great day.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[Beagler]

unearthed my components I have been trying the WAA12's and the Claybuster version of the WAA12F114's and the Fed 12S4's. The winchester wads hold up for the frist shot then the following shots the wads get mangled up. besides the folding of the peddles the WAA12's might one peddle left on it and the WAA12F114's still have peddles attached but only by the thick ridge up the middle of each peddle. Was at the public range when I fired the 12S4's and wasn't able to retrieve the wads (to many to pick through on ground and didn't want to get head blown off) But with not much diff in the big group size. Used once fired AA win hulls and the rem tapered target hulls. Accuracy is even worse after I load them the second Time don't know if its because the crimp (8 point crimp)got scorched and is now harder then the rest of the hull. Dosen't seem to matter herco or blue dot loaded heavy or light both produce the same result. Measured the H and R Barrel .730 in the groves and .720 in the lands. the AA12's are .724 (slug and wad) the F114's are .728 and the 12S4 is .735 . I guess scrounge up some empty hulls and load some 12S4's and shoot them at my place this weekend and see how the wad looks with the snow should be easy to find them. Thought we wern't supposed to role crimp them. I thought it would mess up the peddles trying to push through. Been kicking around the idea of getting a roll crimp-er. Tried the Multi Hulls from Ballistic Components also and a six point crimp with no diff. Using a lee load all to load. weighing and inspecting all the slugs for rejects. all powder is weight out on dig.scale.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Beagler if you carefully see the picture above you will notice a .125 nitro card in wad below the slug to give the slug a firm solid base, which helps and if you check my top picture
the third slug from left is Hornady Versalite wad in red is a good wad, the petals are stiffer and with a nitrocard in the wad its a nice fit.
The next good wad is the Fed 12 S 4 brown wad fifth from left with thicker petals.
The Fed 12C1 wad is also good but now a days maybe hard to find.
Try putting a 16 gauge or 20 gauge nitro card in wad below the slug based on your wad as some wads need a 16 gauge nitro card while other need a 20 gauge card and see which way you get better results.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[Beagler]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE INFO! Have never tried nitro cards before. Off to the sport shop I go. This will give me something to do besides go to work untill the weather warms up. I'll let you know how it turns out and try and get some pics.

Thanks again , Jimmy Moore

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jimmy while you are at it you might as well pick up one bag of 16 and one of 20 gauge nitro cards. Not all wads take the same size!
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[Beagler]

Ended up ordering nitro cards, roll crimper, and some more hulls from BPI. Ordered there 19gauge cards. Cut down the three types of wads I have messured the I.D. and the 19 gauge card should fit perfect. .650 is the avg. I.D. of the wad cups and the 19 gauge card is .647 dia. Now the weight for the brown truck to pull down the driveway.

[fredw1324]

VDO Memorie,
So if I load 20 gauge as to your approach, do I use a 28 or 410 wad card?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Fredw, yes you will most likely need 28 gauge, based on the wad you plan to use. Check your wad ID before you order your nitro cards.
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com

[fredw1324]

Sounds good, I'll log tis as will not be shooting for about another month...don't like winter here in Colorado.
Thanks

[Beagler]

BPI gives the dia. of each nitro card in there item description. Very helpful

[redneckdan]

Try filling the base with paraffin wax. Easier than hot glue and works very well. I have had best luck with WAA12R wads, Blue Dot, and Federal Gold medal hulls.

[phaessler]

Hey Beagler,
Here is the thread I ran last year on my Ultra-Slug with the Lyman 525. Have had real good sucess with it, both on paper and on game.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67781

Pete

[Beagler]

phaessler,

Thanks I checked it out. Will be playing around with everybodys new info, and giving the neighbors a headache.

I tried shooting straight WW slugs one time and you could hear them screaming all the way down range. That raised my eyebrow!!! and scared my buddy. Now I mixed up a batch of PB with about 1.5 % antimony in it. Had a chunk of it tested work in the lab. They are harder than pure PB and don't get the frosted look of straight WW

[redneckdan]

that flat point makes a heck of a racket going down range that is for sure.

[Navy_Guns]

Yeah, but that flat point also makes quite a hole through deer on the far end. I bagged three more this season with exactly three rounds from my single-shot H&R. I almost saved the scapula from one, it had a perfectly round hole the size of a half dollar punched through it.

I feel the hot glue trick is definitely worth it for eliminating fliers in my hunting rounds, but it's pretty dang tedious for making "blasting" ammo. I just did another batch of 135 slugs so I'm good for a while on the hunting loads...

I have tried to shorten the process by filling the hollow base slightly over-full and then pressing it down on a smooth aluminum plate treated with mold release. The problem is that the glue contracts when it cools and you end up with a small bubble/void in every one. To prevent this, I fill them slightly over-full with the glue gun and let them cool to room temperature. Then I come back and pick them up with pliers and hit the surface of the hot glue with a propane torch until the "proud" material melts. You have to do it quick before the heat melts all the glue. Then I press it on the aluminum plate and peel off the material that oozes out after it cools (don't wait too long, it's easier while it's still slightly warm and a tad soft). This eliminates the void because there's much less melted glue to contract. The finished slugs are dusted with corn starch to keep the wads from sticking.

Like I said, a LOT of work but worth it for when accuracy counts. I get groups under 1.5" at 100 yards off a rest in my H&R with a rifled barrel and scope. I am considering contacting the folks at BPI to see if they would sell pre-fabricated plastic inserts to go in the Lyman slug. They obviously have a relationship with a plastic injection molding fabricator. It would be so much easier to just drop a low density, hard plastic cone down into the wad before the slug, you wouldn't have to glue it in place, either. It works for the Federal TruBall rifled slug!

[Beagler]

I mentioned to BPI the Idea of having a two piece sabot made to fit around the slug like the lightfield slugs. mentioned it over the phone. Never got a real answer. I'm sure If enough of us said something to them they would consider it. I'm sure alot of lyman shooters would use them if they had something that worked like a factory load.

[Beagler]

Finally after all this time got a good load that groups. Thanks everybody for all the diff info. After all the diff wads, nitro card, star cripming and roll crimping etc... Shot my first real group with the 525 sabot today. Its not a perfect clover leaf but its better than the 10 and 12 inch group I;ve shot out of a moss slugger and my old H and R Ultra. Really windy and table and chair sinking in mud today. Ended up using phaessler's info from a thread he started http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67781

I shot this group with my new H and R ultra Slugger. Now here is another question its a brand new gun Factory Lightfield 2 3/4 sabots and my handloads will not eject out of chamber. Have to tap out with cleaning rod. My old H and R had no problem! Scratching my head here before I call H and R.

May 27, 2011 edited this post have back my pictured load down a couple grains do to pressure forming the brass around the extractor.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Beagler, you are doing well and since the load is working for you. You have nothing to complain, no more.
Congratulations!
Ajay Madan
www.PreciousVideoMemories.Com