Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets

[jmort]

Just to clarify Walstr, the "issue" is not crimping, it is the lower carbide ring which can cause the swaging of cast boolits. Some just remove the lower carbide ring and crack-on.

[robertbank]

I talked to the Lee FCD technician & he reports that the crimp is a .040" band [45-70]. So I'm thinking it's not much of a resizing effect, presuming the crimp band is about the same for all calibers?

For .45acp you go from .452 - .04 = .412 I would say that was significant. The lower carbide ring reduces it further. Find one to borrow, load a round then pull the bullet and measure it. Let us know how you make out.

Take care

Bob

[noylj]

If I use an as-cast 0.454" bullet in .45 Auto, I can get 0.001" of swagging on cases with thick walls. Never seen any swagging with as-cast 0.452-0.453" bullets.
My 9x19 FCD will swage down 0.358" bullets 0.001" in thick walled cases. 0.357" seem to be fine.
I think more complainers need to measure and see what is happening.
I seldom use the FCD because I do often run over-sized as-cast lead bullets and don't want to take any chances, but the LCD was not designed for my situation, so I can't complain. However, unless you run over-sized bullets, it isn't the "problem" that many make it out to be.

[DougGuy]

You have a .45 auto that will actually chamber and go in battery with a .454" boolit? That would be a new one on me.

[noylj]

Har Har Har. I have 19 1911s in .45 Auto and one S&W in .45 Auto and they ALL chamber a 0.454" cast lead bullet without any issue.
God, you really think that your chamber is 0.002" tighter than a 0.454" bullet would take?
That would be a new one on me — if you have any SAAMI chambers.
Har Har Har.
No, I just post lies so others will mess up.
Har Har Har.

[robertbank]

noylj don't ruin a very interesting thread with baiting and sarcasm. No need on your part. I think you will agree.

Take Care

Bob

[ACrowe25]

I use it in all my reloads, haven't had an issue with my OWN cast. Had have some with some MBC.

[Mark85304]

As far as I'm concerned, any and all swaging issues with the FCD are end-user issues.

In 100% agreement with you.

[enfieldphile]

Meh! That factory crimp die is voodo!

For the .45acp, a Lee Taper Crimp. For any revolver cartridge, a Redding Profile crimp die.

[James6406]

I find that the FCD is a necessity when loading for my 9mm using range pickup brass. I use it as a final step with the crimp adjuster fully up (not crimping/touching the case). This removes the bulge and results in 100% of my rounds chambering correctly. It's a pain adding the extra step but well worth it.

[robertbank]

I find that the FCD is a necessity when loading for my 9mm using range pickup brass. I use it as a final step with the crimp adjuster fully up (not crimping/touching the case). This removes the bulge and results in 100% of my rounds chambering correctly. It's a pain adding the extra step but well worth it.

If you are removing the bulge you are applying the crimp the die is designed to do. When you remove the bulge you are swagging down your bullet. Measure one of your sized bullets before you load it/ Load your cartridge as you normally do, then pull your bullet and measure it again. Range brass is no different then any other brass. If you are resizing them there is no reason for them not to chmaber in the gun. What gun and what are you sizing your bullets.

Take Care

Bob

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I find that the FCD is a necessity when loading for my 9mm using range pickup brass. I use it as a final step with the crimp adjuster fully up (not crimping/touching the case). This removes the bulge and results in 100% of my rounds chambering correctly. It's a pain adding the extra step but well worth it.

If you are not getting lead fouling in the barrel and not getting poor accuracy...you have acheived success. Most of us find that the Lee [pistol style] FCD swages the boolit too small and creates the two problems I mentioned.
Good Luck,
Jon

[James6406]

Bullets are .356 TC 120gr. Pistol is EAA Witness Limited. My bullets measure the same diameter before loading and when pulled - no swaging. The FCD removes any bulge near the base of the case. I suspect this bulge is from Glock fired brass which is not fully supported. Occasionally these rounds do not fully chamber in my pistol. Using the FCD has resulted in 100% chambering. When used I can feel it resizing near the end of the handle stroke where my re-sizing die does not quite reach.

It is my understanding that brass is expanded to the chamber it was fired in therefore range brass can be different. Once i have processed and reloaded pickup brass it seems to process more similar each other after fired in my pistol.

[iflyskyhigh]

Reloading on Dillon 550B.

Just bought a Glock 20 and the 6" Lone Wolf threaded barrel.

Stopped by Dillon on the way home and grabbed the .40/10mm dies.

Using brand spanking new Starline 10MM brass. Measured every spec on the new brass case and it is right on, right out of the box. Never the less ran it through the full length size die.

After full length sizing drops in the Glock 20 factory barrel smooth as silk. Drops in the Dillon 10MM case gauge smooth as silk. Drops in the Lone Wolf barrel smooth as silk.

Load up a dummy round with S & S 175gr LSWC. COAL is 1.250-1.255ish (1.260 stated max COAL). No lectures on how big a difference 1.250-.1255 is please. In terms of seating depth it's a nat's hair, and as long as it within spec the only real difference I see is in possible over all accuracy of the round, but that's gonna be different in every gun and subject to experimentation for each chamber and gun.

COAL is not a problem mind you, that was the first thing I checked for. Once I finally got the round to drop into the chamber the COAL was fine.

Anyway, WITHOUT EVEN CRIMPING, the round drops into Glock factory barrel smooth as silk, and drops into the Dillon case gauge smooth as silk (doesn't stick out of either end of case gauge). Get to the Lone Wolf barrel and the round goes in about 1/3 of the way.

No big deal, obviously needs to go through the Dillon taper crimp die. Done.

After applying a small amount of taper crimp it still won't go into the Lone Wolf barrel. No big deal, just needs some more taper crimp, right?

Wrong, I taper crimp the sh_t out of this thing before I finally get it to slide smoothly into and out of the Lone Wolf barrel. To the point that I am uncomfortable with the amount of taper crimp I had to apply to get it to seat in the Lone Wolf chamber (I would assume that too much taper crimp can create dangerous pressure especially in a round like the 10MM).

Tried the experiment with several more cases and several other bullets with the same result.

Obviously when people say the Lone Wolf chambers are "tight" that is an understatement. I have a Lone Wolf barrel for my Glock 34 and haven't experience the same issue. I understand that the 9MM and 10MM are different animals, and again every gun in every caliber, even in the same caliber, can be just a hair different.

At the risk of talking back to my elders I'm gonna say there is nothing wrong with the way I have my dies adjusted. There is nothing wrong with my components (the boolits may be a little over sized but since I don't cast my own I have no control over that and since I've used S & S products in all my other calibers I have faith in their product). The brass is obviously not "Glocked" bulged at the base, it's brand new. And it fits in the chamber with no boolit.

It just is what it is. The hard cast lead boolit inside the brass is just too big to fit into the tight Lone Wolf throat RIGHT NOW. I think in this case the LFCD may solve my issue, but I don't see it as a "short cut" or a fix to some other flaw in my reloading process.

I just have a specific instance where this TOOL may do a specific job. If it allows the round to fit in the throat, but causes other problems, then it plainly is not the right tool for the job and I move on to another solution.

I understand what the LFCD is and what it does. I'm gonna try the LFCD and hope that "irons" the final round out to chamber in the Lone Wolf barrel. I'll let you know.

If doesn't I'll move on. If accuracy suffers I'll move on an try something else.

Maybe I'll try and open up the throat on the LW barrel as suggested in other posts.

Other than that, not sure what else can be done. I guess I could get a boolit sizer and size down my factory lead boolits? Kind of defeats the purpose of going .001 over in lead then doesn't it?

I haven't had a chance to shoot any rounds yet. I had to leave for a trip so I didn't get to finishing playing. I might try and shoot the lightly crimped rounds in the Glock factory barrel and see how that plays out.

I'm really hoping the LFCD works for me, I'd like to get a cast load worked out for the LW 6" barrel. I would really like to use it for hunting pigs and what have you, and of course range work. I'll also carry it for protection when elk and deer hunting in which case I'll use the factory barrel anyway so this is all a moot point as the rounds chamber fine in the factory barrel.

I see reloading as a constant experiment with very tight tolerances and MOSTLY repeatable results. But it is not an EXACT science. There are just WAY to many variables. I think anyone who uses the words EVERY and ALWAYS when talking about reloading are grasping (even if you have been reloading 100 years). Just because you have been doing the same thing for 4 decades and it's ALWAYS worked doesn't mean that if someone threw a new variable into the mix what you are doing would still work. It may, it may not.

People try new things and hence need to be open to new ways of doing things. I am, that's why I'm gonna try the LCFD. If it works it works, if it doesn't, time to change the game plan.

I think deep down reloaders like to encounter problems because they enjoy the satisfaction of solving those problems. I may bitch about it, but I know that nothing gives me greater pleasure than "figuring something out." That's part of what I love about reloading.

As long as it's done safely of course (which it can be). This is why I plan on pulling all the heavily crimped rounds and starting over when I get the LFCD. I survived 5+ years in law enforcement and 12+ years as a pilot without a scratch because I don't take risks. Not gonna start taking risks now with explosives a foot from my face.

Sorry that was really long winded. I'm on the road and bored. I know I'm a noob to the site, but I love it. Please don't take anything I have said personally, it wasn't meant that way. I value everyones input and in turn only can hope you value mine. I really do enjoy the give and take. Feel free to blast away at anything I have said. I have broad shoulders, figuratively and literally. I can dish it out, but I can also take. I'm a sucker for an argument.

As soon as I get home from my trip and finish this little experiment I'll follow up. I'm gonna bet it works.

[robertbank]

If I can summarize your post.

1. Your newly minted cartridge chambers in a Glock barrel
2. The cartridge drops into a Dillon Case Gauge
3. It won't chamber in your Lone Wolf barrel
4. You conclude running the cartridge through a FCD will solve the problem.

I am not sure what you mean by to much taper crimp. All your Dillon crimping die should be doing is removing the belling you applied to the case via your powder measure. If you screw the die down further than that you will begin to apply a roll crimp something you don't want to do. So my question is, when you apply your taper crimp do the sides of the case wall feel and appear flat so there is no evidence of the belling and the case mouth is not rolled into the case aka a roll crimp?

Assuming you have applied the taper crimp correctly then there is no reason for the cartridge not to chamber in the Lone Wolf barrel. Try dropping in a factory round. If it fits and your LW barrel still won't allow a properly made cartridge using a cast bullet to chamber then your problem lies with the barrel not your cartridge. All the FCD will do is swage down your lead bullet. You likely will not get the accuracy you want and if the barrel rifling is within spec more leading than you might otherwise get.

Having undersized cast bullets chambering smoothly will hardly be a victory. Personally I would send the barrel back to Lone Wolf and have them correct the chamber. I have read lots of folks posts who have got the LW barrel and have had no problems shooting properly sized cast bullets out of their Glocks.

Take Care

Bob

[iflyskyhigh]

[QUOTE=robertbank;2384664]If I can summarize your post.

1. Your newly minted cartridge chambers in a Glock barrel
Yes
2. The cartridge drops into a Dillon Case Gauge
Yes
3. It won't chamber in your Lone Wolf barrel
Yes
4. You conclude running the cartridge through a FCD will solve the problem.
Yes

I am not sure what you mean by to much taper crimp. All your Dillon crimping die should be doing is removing the belling you applied to the case via your powder measure. If you screw the die down further than that you will begin to apply a roll crimp something you don't want to do. So my question is, when you apply your taper crimp do the sides of the case wall feel and appear flat so there is no evidence of the belling and the case mouth is not rolled into the case aka a roll crimp?

I understand the taper crimp and what it is and isn't supposed to do. Yes I have to screw it down past the point where it just takes the bell out. The walls of the case are flat. Not sure if it is rolling into boolit or not. I couldn't tell with the naked eye. I really need to pull one of the cartridges apart and see what it did to the boolit. I just didn't have time before I left and haven't been back home yet. I'll let you know Monday when I get home the verdict on that one.

Assuming you have applied the taper crimp correctly then there is no reason for the cartridge not to chamber in the Lone Wolf barrel. Try dropping in a factory round. If it fits and your LW barrel still won't allow a properly made cartridge using a cast bullet to chamber then your problem lies with the barrel not your cartridge. All the FCD will do is swage down your lead bullet. You likely will not get the accuracy you want and if the barrel rifling is within spec more leading than you might otherwise get.

We'll see. Like I said the statement about proper taper crimp may or may not be true. I agree in 99 out of 100 cases it is true, but in this case it isn't. Again I understand what the LFCD die is and what it does. May solve this particular problem, may not. The throat on the LW barrel is tight. Any bulge what so ever in this case is obviously keeping the round from sliding all the way in. Some say the LFCD swages the boolit, some say it doesn't. Only way I will know for sure in my case is to try it. One thing it will do for sure is "final size" the case one last time with it's carbide ring. Again it may swage the boolit in the process, it may not. That's why I said I am prepared in the event that it does swage the boolit and degrades the accuracy to move on and try something else. It's all theoretical as I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

Having undersized cast bullets chambering smoothly will hardly be a victory. Personally I would send the barrel back to Lone Wolf and have them correct the chamber. I have read lots of folks posts who have got the LW barrel and have had no problems shooting properly sized cast bullets out of their Glocks.

That's why I said I wasn't looking to just simply chamber the round as a victory. If it does not offer me the complete package of chambering, accuracy, and little to no leading, then I move on and try something else. I'm open to sending the barrel back to LW. Just figured I'd try some other things first. I'll knew by Tuesday or Wednesday if my hypothesis is correct. If nothing else it's been a good excuse to buy new toys and tinker.

Thanks for the feedback Bob. Have a good weekend. Ryan

Take Care

Bob[/QUOTE]

[r1kk1]

What is your measured crimp diameter? I try to keep to a range of .469-.471. Works well even with Federal brass and Kart barrel.

Take care

r1kk1

[robertbank]

"Some say the LFCD swages the boolit, some say it doesn't. Only way I will know for sure in my case is to try it."

This really isn't up for debate. Two things can't occupy the same space at the same time. The FCD does and will swage down a bullet in order to smooth out the case and remove the bulge you get when you load a .358 lead boolit into a .38spl case or a .452 lead boolit in a .45acp case. What is a variable is what affect it has on accuracy. Much depends on how much the boolit is swagged down and that depends on the thickness of cartridge case. The latter varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I rather suspect the barrels chamber is to tight. I am sure Lone Wolf will replace the barrel or ream it out if you were to send it back to them. To tight a chamber in a semi auto is going to cause feeding problems no matter the ammo used. Just one reason why Glock chambers are so generous.

Take Care and Good Luck

Bob

[MtGun44]

Some .45 ACP barrels require .465" taper crimp, and this never hurts.

Bill

[jmort]

Catshooter put it best:

"One should not say that the FCD WILL size down my boolits, one should say the die COULD size 'em down.

Big difference."

The reason such a large majority uses the handgun FCD, is that it promotes uniformity and that is a very good thing for semi-autos. If swaging is an issue, then open-up the FCD die. Larger cast bullets will bulge the case and if that is intended/good thing, then open-up the FCD die to exactly where you want/need it.