Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets

[LUBEDUDE]

Knee-jerk reactions suggesting the FCD is automatically 'good' or 'bad' based on our own limited experience are missing the point of the tool; it's designed to produce ammo that will chamber and function every time and it does that quite well. My needs don't automatically indicate what everyone else needs; if the components are always 'good' then the die won't do a thing but if anything is too large the die will make it smaller and loading skill isn't the issue. Combine a fat bullet with a thick case and we can easily have difficuly seating in a tight chamber; that's what the FCD is all about. If everything adds up 'right' or 'wrong' depends on a lot more than reloading skill - it's just luck and the FCD insures that if our luck is bad our ammo will still feed and fire.

The Lee pistol FCD is a special tool; if we need it we need it bad, if we don't need it we don't need it at all but it rarely does any harm. What determines if we actually need the FCD is the diameter of our own chamber(s), the diameter of our own bullets and the thickness of our own specific case walls. Most cases are thin enough to permit using fat bullets sucessfully in most chambers but that's no certainty, the tolerences can indeed randomly stack wrong and there's no 'adjustment' we can make that will make everything work great everytime. Those of us with fat chambers rarely need the help of an FCD but there's no way we can predict the thickness of our cases and there's nothing we can (reasonably) do to make them thinner. Using significantly over-sized cast bullets is the current rage; that may not actually be helpful but it IS a common practice.

Bottom line, striving to make myself and my situation the center of the reloading world by "wisely" disparaging the needs and reloading skills of others would not only be pointless, it would be wrong to the point of being foolish. Everyone should be allowed to use what he knows he needs without me suggesting he's foolish for having needs different from mine. (I may BE a fool but I'm not going to insist on exposing my foolishness to the world!)

Very well articulated

Puts the good/bad thing in perspective.

[trixter]

I use it for 45 ACP, and I am experimenting with .223. I have been taught; for a bolt gun; no but for ar15; yes. I know that it does its job, but if it effects accuracy, I cannot tell yet.

[1hole]

"I use it for 45 ACP, and I am experimenting with .223."

The only thing the rifle and pistol FCDs have in common are the names but I and many others absolutely love the rifle FCD. The rifle FCD has a moving part that requires learning to use properly, it's not hard but it does require thought, no written instuctions can tell you to 'Screw the die down X turns and all will be well." Those who jam their cartridges as far as possible into any crimp die will likely condemn the die for their bad results but that's not fair, the die isn't the part that's supposed to have a brain.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have used the 45acp, 38 special, and 32 S&W FCD. When I was loading just jacketed bullets I did not notice a issue with them.

Then I purchased my 1st box of hard cast lead bullets for 45acp and 38's

While loading the .452 swc's I would get resistance removing the round from the FCD and a pop when it came out. Same with my 358 stuff.
I guess that hard cast does not like to be swaged

I have discontinued the use of these dies.
I did buy the Ranch dog 357 collet type crimp die. That works wonderful.
I suspect its actually a die for the 35 rem or some other 35 cal rifle, but works great on the 357.

Now that I have added a powder check die to my progressive. Its a moot point for me now. I have no room for such extravagance.
The only real reason I was using them any way was to get out of trimming my pistol brass. So now a trimming I will go.

[joec]

I noticed a problem with cast bullets in 45 Colt and picked up a modified factory crimp die from http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/ which is the same but modified and sold exclusively by them. Now it works perfectly and leaves the bullet alone. As for 45 ACP and 9mm I do use the standard Lee Factory Crimp dies as they do the job. So far everything has worked perfectly.

[noylj]

Coz wrote: "...The only real reason I was using them any way was to get out of trimming my pistol brass..."
Why are you trimming pistol cases? I have been handloading for over 45 years and have never trimmed a straight-wall case. The only cases that grow in my experience are bottleneck cases, so I suppose you could be trimming .357Sig cases.
Also, I have no idea how the Lee FCD could be of any aid in not having to trim straight-wall cases. The rifle (bottleneck) FCD can help minimize the need to trim, I have heard...

[robertbank]

Coz wrote: "...The only real reason I was using them any way was to get out of trimming my pistol brass..."
Why are you trimming pistol cases? I have been handloading for over 45 years and have never trimmed a straight-wall case. The only cases that grow in my experience are bottleneck cases, so I suppose you could be trimming .357Sig cases.
Also, I have no idea how the Lee FCD could be of any aid in not having to trim straight-wall cases. The rifle (bottleneck) FCD can help minimize the need to trim, I have heard...

+1. I have never heard of a straight walled case growing in length. ...ever. I have heard of guys trimming .38spl cases once to ensure each case is the same length for even crimps. I haven't ever bothered to do it but I am told some do.

Take Care

Bob

[MtGun44]

The RIFLE FCD and Ranchdog pistol FCDs are collet crimpers that are wonderful devices.

The pistol FCD is an answer looking for a question. If you think you need it, you are
entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that you have a problem with your dies
or the way you are using them. The pistol FCD is never necessary with normally
functioning dies and a normal chamber.

If you are somehow making bad ammo that won't chamber without this post sizing
operation - your dies or your reloading process is the problem and fixing with a 'bigger
hammer' is not dealing with the actual cause. This is a bandaid at best, and ruining
your ammo at the worst.

Bill

[joec]

The RIFLE FCD and Ranchdog pistol FCDs are collet crimpers that are wonderful devices.

The pistol FCD is an answer looking for a question. If you think you need it, you are
entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that you have a problem with your dies
or the way you are using them. The pistol FCD is never necessary with normally
functioning dies and a normal chamber.

If you are somehow making bad ammo that won't chamber without this post sizing
operation - your dies or your reloading process is the problem and fixing with a 'bigger
hammer' is not dealing with the actual cause. This is a bandaid at best, and ruining
your ammo at the worst.

Bill

I have never had a problem with my 45 colt for my pistols simply using the Lee bullet seat/crimp die but have had a few with my Rossi 92 in 45 Colt and thought I would give the Ranch Dog a try. Never had a need for the FCD for even my auto pistols.

[Char-Gar]

I have not paid any attention to this poll and thread, but just checked it out and was astounded at the results. So many folks use that cursed die and think it works just fine.

There are several things I could say about the results of this poll, but they are all best left unsaid.

[robertbank]

The RIFLE FCD and Ranchdog pistol FCDs are collet crimpers that are wonderful devices.

The pistol FCD is an answer looking for a question. If you think you need it, you are
entitled to your opinion, but my opinion is that you have a problem with your dies
or the way you are using them. The pistol FCD is never necessary with normally
functioning dies and a normal chamber.

If you are somehow making bad ammo that won't chamber without this post sizing
operation - your dies or your reloading process is the problem and fixing with a 'bigger
hammer' is not dealing with the actual cause. This is a bandaid at best, and ruining
your ammo at the worst.

Bill

Bill a perfect explanation.

Take Care

Bob

[rbertalotto]

SOME pistol cartridges will benefit from the FCD. I shoot 38-40 which was designed to use a full case of black powder with the bullet compressing the powder about a 1/16 of an inch. This stops the bullet from falling into the case in a tube fed lever action rifle.

If you use smokeless powder that doesn't fill the case, with the VERY thin brass neck of the 38-40 and 44-40 case, the bullet will be pushed into the case from the weight of the other cartridges in the tube magazine. The Ranch Dog FCD is designed to totally eliminate this issue.

Standard roll crimp dies will work, but you'll ruin a few cases in the process. And being bottle neck designs, these cases will grow in length and need to be trimmed to use a standard roll crimp die. The FCD does not require the case be trimmed to the exact same length.

[MtGun44]

The Ranch Dog FCD is a rifle collet crimp die applied to a pistol caliber, and as such is
it a good and useful tool. As stated, the collet type crimp dies are much more tolerant
of case length variation - a benefit.

Bill

[r1kk1]

SOME pistol cartridges will benefit from the FCD. I shoot 38-40 which was designed to use a full case of black powder with the bullet compressing the powder about a 1/16 of an inch. This stops the bullet from falling into the case in a tube fed lever action rifle.

If you use smokeless powder that doesn't fill the case, with the VERY thin brass neck of the 38-40 and 44-40 case, the bullet will be pushed into the case from the weight of the other cartridges in the tube magazine. The Ranch Dog FCD is designed to totally eliminate this issue.

Standard roll crimp dies will work, but you'll ruin a few cases in the process. And being bottle neck designs, these cases will grow in length and need to be trimmed to use a standard roll crimp die. The FCD does not require the case be trimmed to the exact same length.

I'm confused. Both of these cartridges are rifle cartridges and the thread is for pistol FCD. They are two different dies.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=133197

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/796...-die-44-40-wcf

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/618...-die-38-40-wcf

I don't see where Ranch Dog carries the FCD for 38-40 or 44-40.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/inde...ex&cPath=53_54

I do take my time loading 44-40. You are correct it is easy to destroy cases with careless bullet seating, sizing or crimping. I use a taper crimp die from CH4D and do have a riifle FCD somewhere in storage for this cartridge.

take care,

r1kk1

[rbertalotto]

I'm confused. Both of these cartridges are rifle cartridges and the thread is for pistol FCD. They are two different dies.

Might want to check this.......hundreds of thousands of pistols are chambered in both.

[r1kk1]

Might want to check this.......hundreds of thousands of pistols are chambered in both.

Not confused on the platform. You can get a 22 Hornet, 218 Bee, 30-30, 375 Win, 38-55, 45-70 and even a 45-90 from Magnum Research in their BFR revolver. The fact is it is a Lee Rifle FCD used for 44-40 not a Lee Pistol FCD. They are two separate dies as far as design goes.

I do own a Ruger Vaquero in 44-40. It is not a pistol cartridge, nor is the Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine. It doesn't matter about platform that the cartridge is shot from, it's about the dies.

take care,

r1kk1

[evil5826]

Just bought one for a 454 casull load. Liked the idea at first but when I found out it was the root cause for the bullets not chambering I had to return it. Went back to my RCBS seater/crimp. The RCBS straightened everything out and now they chamber properly.

Can't vote cause I did use it, but no longer will.

[RJM52]

Use mine in .41 Magnum for cast, jacketed and plated bullets and can only say I am a satisfied customer.

210 Berry's Plated bullets at 50' DA...the low one was the aiming point for the others...





300 grain cast at 50 yards...





230 cast at 20 yards...









300 cast at 55 yards...



..the one out was my fault not the guns...



Just bought a .475 Linebaugh and called to see if they would make a Carbide FCD or a FCD (collet style) like they did for a 500 S&W... Was told they no longer will but would not explain why...

Bob

[ronbo40s&w]

Last night I measured the 165 gr rainier hollow points I load and the 180 gr Missouri bullets i load for my .40. I did a bunch of camparison measurements and then decided to do some with and without FCD loading on the missouri bullets. It turns out, the expanding I do is so slight it is taken out by bullet seating! Has anybody else ever seen this? It may just be using calipers instead of a micrometer. But it's weird and repeatable. I also found the FCD is reducing the mouth of the case, and I presume the bullet inside, by .0015 using the same piece of brass before and after and simply disassembling the round and reexpanding it and seating with or without the fcd. This is confirmed with bullet measurements and a tiny lip of lead formed that is measurable and the bullet below it is only .400! I did this several times with several different brass and decided to load up a few with no crimp whatsoever based on the measurements after expanding and after seating. They all fed like a charm dry and shot without a hitch today. I ended up shooting 50 rounds this way today and I believe they are even more accurate, although I only shot standing and unsupported. Simply drawing and shooting, though, my results today are the best i've had with this pistol, lead or plated. Some of that is practice, but the point is i see no decrease in accuracy and no feed issues. Although i didn't check for setback today with live fire (i forgot because it went so well.) I DID cycle and load them back up them last night several times, measuring no setback at all.

These results surprise me. I was about to buy a taper crimp die and I don't WANT the FCD to do this...lol. Turns out it does. Measurments don't lie and I am going to stop using it after bullet seating. Is this usual to need no crimp at all with a lead bullet? I expand so little you cannot see or feel it. It is measurable, however, about 001. I have to take my time setting the bullet in, but it does sit level...you just can't throw it in there and have it level itself out. The mouth of the case measures .0015 larger than the rainier plated rounds with the bullet seated, but they were the same using the FCD. Interesting. Oh and the leading was further reduced!

God Bless!

Ron

[ronbo40s&w]

I wanted to add, because it is an important side note: I ALWAYS run range brass through my FCD after i tumble it for several hours in corncob media with polish so i can see any cracks. This makes me think i am starting with the most perfect brass for my gun until i actually shoot it IN my gun. maybe that's old rifle talking, but i am a neck-sizer in .308 bolt action and wonder if fire-forming makes a similar improvement in pistol. All I know is, range pickups don't even drop into my barrel in some cases until I FCD them, so I do it first pushing them all the way through on my single stage press into a plastic coffee can on the top of the die. I suspect once I do this, size them and expand them minimally, it may be enough neck tension on its own...they all shot great today.