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View Poll Results: Do you use the Lee factory Crimp Die when loading pistol cartridges withcast bullets

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  • Yes, I use the FCD for all my handgun cartridge loadings when using cast bullets.

    574 65.90%
  • No, I never use this die as it swages down my cast bullets

    297 34.10%
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Thread: Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets

  1. #81
    In Remembrance
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    Ranch Dog is the exclusive seller of the new LFC dies that don't have the swaging collar. I am going to order all of them when my boat comes in!

  2. #82
    Boolit Buddy Mike Kerr's Avatar
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    Works for me on handgun calibers. However, it does squeeze everything down if its over size or over the die's spec.

    regards,

  3. #83
    Boolit Master 40Super's Avatar
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    I don't need them,I've always tried to adjust everything that is normally used,so the rounds come out usable.Several of my lead bullets are .003+ oversize due to barrel size so anything that will "resize to factory specs" will ruin my good rounds .Any time I've run into fittiment issues,I have been able to trace down to something I did or the component sizes,an FCD would just allow me to continue making the wrong choice instead of fixing what is wrong.
    sent via hammer and chisel

    need oversized powder funnels , PTX's or expanders ? just ask, I make 'em for most brands plus my own styles.

  4. #84
    Boolit Bub
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    Worked up some 45 ACP 200 gr cast bullet loads using a taper crimp die and some with the FCD. Everything else was the same. Out of MY GUN the FCD shot a tighter group. YMMV.

  5. #85
    Boolit Master
    A pause for the COZ's Avatar
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    Cant say i am a expert crimper. Unless over crimping is a virtue.
    I do use the Factory crimp die in all my loads except bolt action rifles.
    Main reason I use it is because all of the crimping I have noted from the bullet seat dies, You have to have ALL your brass trimmed to the same length. I have mashed way to many shoulders with bullet seater crimping.

    Now that being said. For my accuracy loads in my 223 single shot. I use hornady brass all trimmed to the same length. And apply a slight crimp with the bullet seater.
    But for 1000's of rounds I do other wise. No way i want to work that hard. Trim only if out of spec. and crimp w/ FCD. it does not care about the length as long as its not too long.

  6. #86
    Boolit Buddy
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    Always. My .45 ACP's will NOT chamber reliably without it. Both in my Taurus PT-1911 and my S&W Compact ES 1911. It's essential for me.

    Emrah

  7. #87
    Boolit Grand Master in Remembrance


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    Not pick on you emrah, but you need to take a look at your die settings and bullet size and/or reloading skills. I reload 45 ACP for a Kimber with a custom target barrell with a TIGHT chamber and do not need or use the Lee FCD. The barrel is not a Kimber barrel, it is a Ed Brown target barrel.

    Just what is the problem if you do not use the FCD.
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  8. #88
    Boolit Master 1bluehorse's Avatar
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    A couple days ago I decided to run a few firelapping rounds through my wifes 357's. (Cimmeron Colt Thunderer replicas) cast some 150gr. RNFP bullets, bhn 11/12, unsized were .360(ish +). took some unsized brass, deprimed and primed (universal decapper) 2g bullseye powder, seat bu...nope won't go,hmmmm, okay slightly bell case mouth, seat bullet, WOW, like trying to size a 300mag case. Try to chamber round...no go .... again hmmmmm..... okay, run it through the LCFCD, (well that was easy, but the bullet after coming out of the crimp die was loose enough you could move it with your fingers) but the round chambered just fine and a crimp isn't needed for Bunny F lapping loads so I was good to go. My conclusion..(who cares?) yep, no doubt about it, the LCFCD will size down (swage) OVERSIZE BULLETS....and in doing so you will also lose case neck tension. (at least in this case and I see no reason it wouldn't in others as well) (at ten feet they shot very, well though...but with a little hotter loads bullet setback or crimp jumping would be an issue) For jacketed bullets and "normal" sized cast, it should work o.k, for oversize maybe not so good an idea...(and I know the suspense is killing you so), yes the firelapping was a success, only took 12 rounds for each gun to clean up the slight constriction at the frame/barrel. so thats my opinion and even being free it may be to high a price to pay..

  9. #89
    Boolit Buddy handyman25's Avatar
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    Boy did I learn some good information on this thread. Thanks to all.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master

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    "out of my gun the FCD shot a tighter group"

    1. Compared to what?

    2. One or two groups are meaningless, unfortunately. Maybe a few 20 shot
    groups will be useful, but one or two 5 shot groups tell you more about the shooter
    and the weather and luck than the ammo. Not meaning to be negative, just a bit
    of statistical input. If you really want to know, compare the two methods in a
    25 shot group where you have two targets side by side and shoot five into one
    then the other version five into the other target. Then back to the first target, first
    type of ammo. After a 25 round test on each, with strings intermingled, you will
    start to see a pattern, maybe. Helps avg out shooter effects and randomness.

    Bill
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master
    44Vaquero's Avatar
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    No, but I use the "Taper Crimp" die as a separate step for all pistol calibers.

  12. #92
    Boolit Mold
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    I don't use them for anything. They are like taking a cough drop for a cold, they might ease the symptoms but they aren't a cure.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master
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    Knee-jerk reactions suggesting the FCD is automatically 'good' or 'bad' based on our own limited experience are missing the point of the tool; it's designed to produce ammo that will chamber and function every time and it does that quite well. My needs don't automatically indicate what everyone else needs; if the components are always 'good' then the die won't do a thing but if anything is too large the die will make it smaller and loading skill isn't the issue. Combine a fat bullet with a thick case and we can easily have difficuly seating in a tight chamber; that's what the FCD is all about. If everything adds up 'right' or 'wrong' depends on a lot more than reloading skill - it's just luck and the FCD insures that if our luck is bad our ammo will still feed and fire.

    The Lee pistol FCD is a special tool; if we need it we need it bad, if we don't need it we don't need it at all but it rarely does any harm. What determines if we actually need the FCD is the diameter of our own chamber(s), the diameter of our own bullets and the thickness of our own specific case walls. Most cases are thin enough to permit using fat bullets sucessfully in most chambers but that's no certainty, the tolerences can indeed randomly stack wrong and there's no 'adjustment' we can make that will make everything work great everytime. Those of us with fat chambers rarely need the help of an FCD but there's no way we can predict the thickness of our cases and there's nothing we can (reasonably) do to make them thinner. Using significantly over-sized cast bullets is the current rage; that may not actually be helpful but it IS a common practice.

    Bottom line, striving to make myself and my situation the center of the reloading world by "wisely" disparaging the needs and reloading skills of others would not only be pointless, it would be wrong to the point of being foolish. Everyone should be allowed to use what he knows he needs without me suggesting he's foolish for having needs different from mine. (I may BE a fool but I'm not going to insist on exposing my foolishness to the world!)
    Last edited by 1hole; 04-18-2012 at 11:54 AM.

  14. #94
    Boolit Master
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    A while back I ordered a Lyman .452" sizer. It sized to .449". I finally got a replacement. It sizes to .453". After much aggravation I gave up on Lyman ever sending one of the right diameter and decided to just use my .454" sizer, that way the same bullets will work in the club's 45 Colt. I use the FCD to size the .454" bullet in the case. I get very little leading. I've only fired a little over 200 rounds through my XD, but so far the accuracy has been good, and I've had zero failures to feed.

    US Govt mantra: If it's moving tax it. If it's still moving regulate it. If it stops moving subsidize it

  15. #95
    Boolit Master on Heavens Range
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    1Hole says it best. As such, always make auto pistol ammo using a close fitting straight-line (sleeved) seater. Any boolit shaving seen after seating for a particular round, keep that round seperate and shoot those collected separately, letting the erroneous brass sail into the weeds, or re-sell at gunshow (never to us on the board. That brass is just too thick.). ... felix
    felix

  16. #96
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Knee-jerk reactions suggesting the FCD is automatically 'good' or 'bad' based on our own limited experience are missing the point of the tool; it's designed to produce ammo that will chamber and function every time and it does that quite well.
    My own limited experience has shown me that the FCD is not needed to make ammunition that will chamber and function every time. I didn't see the posts you are referring to as "knee-jerk reactions", but I did see a lot of opinions based on others experiences, which is what the OP asked for.

    There is a lot of differences in how people load, both their techniques and equipment, but it's all acceptable due to the individuals that are using them. I think this is why there are so many disputes on forums about what it right and what is wrong. The pistol FCDs do make ammo work, but not everyone is willing to accept the way it does it or would rather find the cause of why the ammo is not working and resolve it. Others don't care to waste the time and the FCDs are a quick, easy fix. It all depends on what the individual wants from the finished product.

  17. #97
    Boolit Master
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    "My own limited experience has shown me that the FCD is not needed to make ammunition that will chamber and function every time. I didn't see the posts you are referring to as "knee-jerk reactions", but I did see a lot of opinions based on others experiences, which is what the OP asked for. "

    I didn't suggest the FCD is 'needed" to make ammo that chambers everytime. In fact, I specifically said it's a special purpose tool, useful if you need it, useless if you don't; what part of all that did you not understand? I also gave the OP - and everyone else - the situations and specific reasons the FCD can be useful And, it's your "opinion" that I'm wrong?? My goodness. you're just brilliant!

    Perhaps you will agree that your limited experience with the FCD limits your perception and, over all, maybe that renders your opinion virtually meaningless? Sometimes newish people who have learned enough to get passed the basics of anything come to think they have arrived and stand tall without a clue how much they still have to learn; most of us can easily grasp your experience level from what you post. Like, you reference ways to "fix" too fat ammo without saying how. Get a lot more experience; you'll probably learn a lot more than you know now and you may eventually change your "opinion", life's like that!

    (You won't gain web credibility simply by attacking others without specific data to support your position and you simply have too little experience and/or understanding of what I posted to do so on this issue. You can disagree with any stated position without doing it on a personal level. Part of the valuable experience you will need on the web is to simply experess your "opinion" without disparaging by name those with very a different opinion in a knee-jerk reaction based on the presumed importance of your admitted "limited experience." )
    Last edited by 1hole; 04-19-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  18. #98
    Boolit Mold
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    Well, this didn't take long. I could answer all your insults and accusations, but I'm not going to...because I just left another forum because of the ever growing number of people with an attitude similar to yours that ran off all the credible, knowledgable posters. You aren't trying to share knowledge, you only want to beat your opinions into everone else's heads.

    Have a nice day onehole.

  19. #99
    Boolit Master
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    First YOU attack me - by name - and put words in my mouth I never said. Not only is that unsanitary, it's dishonest and now YOU say I'm "insulting" YOUR wisdom as a "credible, knowledgeable poster" with admitted little personal experience about the subject you're posting about? Highly amusing!

    I'm sure we will miss your wisdom here fully as much as the other forum does and my day has been quite pleasant, thank you.

  20. #100
    Boolit Mold
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    I've come and gone and come back to the FCD for .45 ACP in my S&W 625. I do see the potential for some post sizing the lead bullet with the possibility of some decrease in accuracy, but have come to the conclusion that what trumps all other characteristics of my loads is reliability. All of my shooting of .45 ACP is for completion (IDPA and USPSA) and I've lost more points due to a lack of reliability than for any lack of accuracy. At some point I became concerned with the heavy bump of my loads going through the FCD carbide ring and went back to my old RCBS taper crimp die. I had to crimp heaver than I wanted just to get the cartridges to drop freely into each revolver chamber and even then some of the bases wold be large enough to produce enough friction to not chamber freely. In a revolver this causes cylinder rotation drag affecting trigger pull, at best, and often just stops the cylinder from rotating at all.

    All of my brass for a batch of loads is of the same head stamp yet there is still variation enough that not all of it will easily chamber after conventional sizing, seating, and crimping. All of it easily chambers after the FCD I think that no matter if a proponent or critic of the FCD most recognize that .45 ACP rounds loaded using the FCD are reliable. I've concluded that this increased reliability is the most important factor in the shooting I do with my revolver.

    As has been mentioned here before, I will also segregate any rounds that are noticeably more difficult to pass through the carbide ring of the FCD from my regular match loads.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check