Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets

[Tar Heel]

Never heard so much squabbling over something that doesn't even enter the picture.

A classic case of a thread that has been open for over 10 years and everyone weighs in on something which is usually not even what the OP was about.

40 years from now, some fool will post in this very thread that the 9mm is an obsolete cartridge.

[gwpercle]

I don't own a single FCD ... I learned to reload before they were invented .
They are actually made for those who can't/don't want to learn how to set up and properly adjust seating and crimping dies ... I know how ...ergo ... have no need for them .
Gary

[iflyskyhigh]

I don't own a single FCD ... I learned to reload before they were invented .
They are actually made for those who can't/don't want to learn how to set up and properly adjust seating and crimping dies ... I know how ...ergo ... have no need for them .
Gary

[1hole]

I don't own a single FCD ... I learned to reload before they were invented .
They are actually made for those who can't/don't want to learn how to set up and properly adjust seating and crimping dies ... I know how ...ergo ... have no need for them .
Gary

Oh?

The only truly unique feature of Lee's excellent handgun FCDs is the post seating sizer ring. That ring is a guarantee that the reloaded ammo is within the normal SAAMI diameter and therefore will always chamber correctly; it's simple physics.

Some people, for their own reasons, load oversized cast bullets. If they do that in cases with unsually thick mouths it can easily end up as overly large diameter ammo that may jam in tight chambers. Thus, the loader must make a decision; do I want the most accurate possible handgun ammo or will I trade off a small bit of accuracy to obtain totally reliable chambering by using a Lee FCD?

You say you know how to adjust your dies but others don't. Well, I wonder. If you load cast bullets at all, please explain how you magically "adjust" your dies to account for oversize bullets seated in thick cases that will still easily slide into tight chambers of any handgun.

[sghart3578]

Oh?

The only truly unique feature of Lee's excellent handgun FCDs is the post seating sizer ring. That ring is a guarantee that the reloaded ammo is within the normal SAAMI diameter and therefore will always chamber correctly; it's simple physics.

Some people, for their own reasons, load oversized cast bullets. If they do that in cases with unsually thick mouths it can easily end up as overly large diameter ammo that may jam in tight chambers. Thus, the loader must make a decision; do I want the most accurate possible handgun ammo or will I trade off a small bit of accuracy to obtain totally reliable chambering by using a Lee FCD?

You say you know how to adjust your dies but others don't. Well, I wonder. If you load cast bullets at all, please explain how you magically "adjust" your dies to account for oversize bullets seated in thick cases that will still easily slide into tight chambers of any handgun.

I load oversized cast bullets for the chambers of my particular guns. I could care less if my reloads fit "the tight chambers of any handguns". The sizing ring of the FCD swages my oversize loads down to a factory spec thus nullifying the benefits if fitting the bullet to my particular chamber.

I only load for my guns.

BTW, I am not jumping on you. If you want to use the FCD please do.


Steve in N CA

[Carrier]

For those who knock the ring out I am sure you will get nice rolled crimps. Not sure how it would work for the tapered 9MM case, but there you are. Different strokes for different folks.

Take Care

Bob

Actually works very well.

[1hole]

I load oversized cast bullets for the chambers of my particular guns. I could care less if my reloads fit "the tight chambers of any handguns". The sizing ring of the FCD swages my oversize loads down to a factory spec thus nullifying the benefits if fitting the bullet to my particular chamber.

I only load for my guns.

BTW, I am not jumping on you. If you want to use the FCD please do.

Steve in N CA

Thank you, I'll do that.

I'm not "jumping on you" either; just wondered about your posted claim that you know how to make seater/crimper die adjustments that can make fat ammo work in tight chambers. Now I know you don't and wonder how much your accuracy actually improves because of your carefully fitted fat ammo. ??

I use an FCD where it matters; defense ammo. I believe the potential lack of bench rest accuracy at handgun fight ranges with the FCD is modest to the point of being meaningless but it seems to me the potential for terminal embarrassment resulting from a jam in a gunfight is great. YMMV.

Bottom line, I consider myself to be a competent reloader but I make no claims about any superior knowledge or die adjustment skills over those who disagree with me about the FCD. But I'm not from California either. ???

[robertbank]

Oh?

The only truly unique feature of Lee's excellent handgun FCDs is the post seating sizer ring. That ring is a guarantee that the reloaded ammo is within the normal SAAMI diameter and therefore will always chamber correctly; it's simple physics.

Some people, for their own reasons, load oversized cast bullets. If they do that in cases with unsually thick mouths it can easily end up as overly large diameter ammo that may jam in tight chambers. Thus, the loader must make a decision; do I want the most accurate possible handgun ammo or will I trade off a small bit of accuracy to obtain totally reliable chambering by using a Lee FCD?

You say you know how to adjust your dies but others don't. Well, I wonder. If you load cast bullets at all, please explain how you magically "adjust" your dies to account for oversize bullets seated in thick cases that will still easily slide into tight chambers of any handgun.

I have to say you seem to know very little about cast bullets. I know of nobody who sizes their cast bullets for the 9MM for example .355 or 38special .357. Most casters I know cast their pistol bullets at least .001 over bore size. With the 9MM cast for the 8 different pistols I have settled in .357 sizing due to variants in bore diameters encountered in different barrels. I have never heard of a lead bullet being stuck in a barrel because it was .002" over bore diameter if the case was loaded with the required powder to push the barrel along it's way...have you?

When you size your 9MM bullets do you size them .355 or do you size them .356 or larger? When you seat them in their cases do the cases show a slight bulge? If so after you run your cartridge through your FCD is the case nice and smooth? If so what diameter do you think your cast bullet is after you slim down the case?

The bulge in the case after seating is due to two variables. The outside diameter of your case after you run it through your sizing die and the inside diameter of your case due to thickness of the brass case. The bulged area likely is still well within SAMMI specs. I shoot around 10K of 9MM per year. almost exclusively lead bullets. Add to that about 1K of 38spl and another 1k of pistol cartridges all of which are mostly lead. All are sized .001 or .002 over bore diameter. None of the bullets have stuck in the barrel and none have failed to chamber due to being to fat. One reason is all my pistols are based upon military or LEO designs where chambers are never tight. While I have had tight revolver chamber mouths that required reaming out to match the bores of the gun the chambers have never need work. It is for those reasons that I feel sizing down handgun cases so the are "smooth" is not required and counter productive because it can cause leading issue due to undersized bullets resulting from squeezing down the bullets and the possibility of poor accuracy. if the barrel of the gun is over sized. The later can be the case with some 9MM guns. My bullets are sized by the barrel for a tight fit assisting in reducing gas cutting which lead to leading. Too, a proper fitted bullet should maximize the effect of the rifling on the bullet. The latter is particularly important when dealing with shallow rifling of some barrel designs.

Take Care

Bob
ps I love my Lee FCD for rifles but they work completely different then the dies for pistol calibers. I also had a FCD for 9MM that went down the road a long time ago.

[1hole]

.... All are sized .001 or .002 over bore diameter. None of the bullets have stuck in the barrel and none have failed to chamber due to being to fat.

I'll ignore most of your very experienced misunderstandings of what I wrote but you raise three points that I can't help laughing at.

First, if you think sizing any cast bullet to 1 or 2 thou over bore makes them "fat" that is NOT what I addressed. I read some folk saying they don't size their cast bullets at all, some are said to be as much as 6-10 thou over bore diameter; now that's fat! (IMHO, at 1 or 2 thou over bore diameter, you're sizing your bullets correctly. Making them fatter rarely, if ever, accomplishes anything useful.)

Note that I never said a thing about "bullets getting stuck" in a barrel. Fact is, all bullets will be bore diameter when they travel their own length into the bore and any cast bullet (and normal powder charge) that can be chambered will surely be blown out. I ONLY addressed (fat cartridge) jamming in the chamber and if you haven't experienced that then you still have a lot to learn about tight chambers, thick cases and fat bullets!

Finally, I also didn't mention anything at all about wasp-waist cases in the finished loads. A pinched waist is because of too much FL sizing and that leads to early case splits. BUT, a pinched waist case won't affect chambering at all and the pinch has nothing directly to do with seating or crimping .... OR a Lee FCD!

Finally, in answer to how I size my 9mm bullets, I don't bother to reload 9mm. I don't own one and unless I'm given a free-bee to play with I probably never will. All the 9mm cartridge amounts to is a touchy P++ .38 Special with light for caliber bullets. If I'm ever in a gunfight I will want - and will have - something better than that; as Mr. Bill Jordan once famously said, there are no "Second Place Winners" in a gun fight.

[robertbank]

Ten years ago I sked a simple question and I certainly have the answers I was looking for. I now know why folks use the FCD fir handgun cartridges and why I don't bother. What I do use with good effect is the Lee FCD for rifles.

Take Care

Bob
ps If this thread goes on for another 10 years I likely will be dead. If there is an after life you can be sure I will have a grin on my face. Hope you all have had your shots.

[1hole]

Ten years ago I sked a simple question and I certainly have the answers I was looking for. I now know why folks use the FCD fir handgun cartridges and why I don't bother.

What I think you've been overlooking is WHY some of us like the handgun FCD; after all, it's just another reloading tool to be used if it's helpful. There's certainly no value in using an FCD because it's not helpful for me but to sneer at it - and it's users - simply because I don't need it would be ego pointless and I don't like doing that.

Therefore, for some folk to suggest they are smart enough to know how to adjust their dies so they don't need an FCD and, from that, judge that no one else needs it either IS laughable. Laughable stuff often makes me smile!

[robertbank]

Nope I have not. I actually learned some important information about the die and how I might use one in a few instances with a couple of pistol cartridges I reload for. I also have been reminded of an observation Mark Twain made years ago. "It is easier to fool people then it is to convince them they have been fooled." Your "PS" brought the phrase to mind.

Take Care

Bob

[jonp]

I don't own a single FCD ... I learned to reload before they were invented .
They are actually made for those who can't/don't want to learn how to set up and properly adjust seating and crimping dies ... I know how ...ergo ... have no need for them .
Gary

OK, Boomer....

[iflyskyhigh]

OK, Boomer....

That was my exact thought #okboomer

[Old Caster]

This is so simple and it has probably been mentioned somewhere in the 18 pages but cast some bullets measure them and then load them without the FCD and pull them to see what diameter they are and then do the same with an FCD. If you are happy with the difference, go ahead and use it and if not happy don't use it.

[chuck40219]

So, how do you knock the sizing ring out of the Lee 38 Special FCD? I like to seat and crimp in separate operations.

Chuck40219

[onelight]

So, how do you knock the sizing ring out of the Lee 38 Special FCD? I like to seat and crimp in separate operations.

Chuck40219

Before you knock it out take a case fired in you gun that has not been resized and see if the portion of the mouth where the bullet seats will slip past the carbide ring with hand pressure if it will you gain nothing by knocking it out.
My revolver dies do not post size on any thing that will chamber in my guns.
If your case won't slip past there may be an advantage in that particular gun to to remove the ring or buy a regular crimp die.

[chuck40219]

Before you knock it out take a case fired in you gun that has not been resized and see if the portion of the mouth where the bullet seats will slip past the carbide ring with hand pressure if it will you gain nothing by knocking it out.
My revolver dies do not post size on any thing that will chamber in my guns.
If your case won't slip past there may be an advantage in that particular gun to to remove the ring or buy a regular crimp die.

They (or at least the one I tried) did make it all the way but did require a bit of tugging to remove it.

Ever sense finding this series I have been thinking about the What If. So a month or so ago I loaded some 357's both ways. With the FCD and with the seater/crimp die. What I found was I could not see any difference between the two methods. What I have been doing as of late is seating then going back and backing the seating die stem out and readjusting the die for the crimp.

Just some mental games for me. I usually don't think much of anything other what is going on at church and shooting.

Hope all this makes sense.

Chuck40219

[Tripplebeards]

First time I tried this crimp it shrunk the as a exact same load I was getting 4"-6" groups with to sub moa. Been using the crimp on everything accept 45 colt trailboss loads

[onelight]

They (or at least the one I tried) did make it all the way but did require a bit of tugging to remove it.

Ever sense finding this series I have been thinking about the What If. So a month or so ago I loaded some 357's both ways. With the FCD and with the seater/crimp die. What I found was I could not see any difference between the two methods. What I have been doing as of late is seating then going back and backing the seating die stem out and readjusting the die for the crimp.

Just some mental games for me. I usually don't think much of anything other what is going on at church and shooting.

Hope all this makes sense.

Chuck40219

Makes sense to me we have the same two favorite topics .