Lee Factory Crimp die for Handgun Cartridges and Cast Bullets

[Patrick56]

Come on people its not rocket science its simple math. It is a post sizing die. If your loaded round is larger than the carbide ring it will size it. If your loaded round contains a boolit that can easily be sized it will also be reduced in size. Brass can and does spring back a little. Lead does not. This equals less neck tension at the very least.

Measure your carbide ring in your FCD. If its smaller than your loaded cast or plated ammo I suggest not using it.

Don't use something because someone says it works good for them. These are tools and tools are made for specific purposes. Know the purpose of the tool and use it accordingly.

Motor

I did not know that there is a carbide ring in the FCD? I have used the FCD on my 44-40 and 30-30 and they give a very uniform nice crimp.

[Motor]

Patrick56. This is the real problem with FCDs. There are 2 distinctly different tools that have the same name. Of these 2 one uses 2 different types of crimp.

The rifle FCD: Uses a collet to crimp and has no post sizing ring.

The pistol FCD: Has a post sizing ring. The funny thing about pistol FCDs is there actual crimping function is almost identical to any other pistol crimp die. The taper crimp is no different while the roll crimp is slightly modified so it's more friendly to un-equal case lengths.

There may even be both types for some calibers like 45-70.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Motor

[Patrick56]

In that case my 44-40 FCD has to be classed as a rifle die. It has no carbide ring and a fired case can be inserted in the die, all the way in without any resistance.

[Motor]

When you look down into it from the top do you see a metal part with 4 gaps. If you do then it is a collet type crimp. If it has a threaded plug on top that you adjust to change the amount of crimp it is a pistol type.

If it has the ability to seat and crimp it's not a FCD.

This is the problem I have with calling the pistol tools FCDs. The only major difference with a pistol FCD from any other die is the post sizing ring.

The rifle FCD truly creates a "factory" type crimp and does it from around the cercomfrence. Since the collet moves with the case the crimp is applied in the same location (from the case head) every single time.
Motor

[Patrick56]

Both, the 44-40 and the 30-30 FCD are the collet type. Checked the Lee website. Seems that the 44-40 FCD is a rifle die. Historically right.

[Motor]

Both, the 44-40 and the 30-30 FCD are the collet type. Checked the Lee website. Seems that the 44-40 FCD is a rifle die. Historically right.

That's good. You don't have to worry about the post sizing ring. However you do have to pay attention to how much you crimp. The collet can be adjusted too tight for cast boolits and squeeze / crush the boolit inside the casing too.

A few posts back a member stated that knowing what the tool does and how it does it is the key to using it correctly and that is the simple truth.

That is also why Lee should have come up with different names for 2 distinctly different tools.

Motor

[dudel]

That is also why Lee should have come up with different names for 2 distinctly different tools.

Motor

They actually do have two different names. People here (and everywhere) tend to confuse them.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-di...tory-crimp-die Pistol - Carbide Factory Crimp Die

and

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-di...tory-crimp-die Rifle - Factory Crimp Die

But I agree, some more differentiation would have been better. For example the Carbide Factory Crimp Die should have been called the "best crimp die since sliced bread if you know how to use it". I'm a fan of the Cfcd. I use them for all pistol calibers.

[Patrick56]

My 25-20 FCD is also a collet type die. Easy to use and gives a nice crimp.

[gloob]

If the FCD carbide ring is doing anything to a round of jacketed ammo, that is a round of ammo i am not going to make any more of. Just because the FCD makes a round fit in a chamber doesn't mean that it is quality ammo. I don't care if it is jacketed or cast.

I once loaded plated wadcutters in military 38 special brass.the Web taper came up too high for the bullet seating depth. Sure, the FCD allowed that ammo to fit in the cylinder. But I never loaded that combination of components, again. Haven't used that particular FCD again, either. But it is there if I need it.

Using it on cast bullets? If I used tl'd unsized bullets that caused jams. And if my brass was sorted. And if I was sure that setback wouldn't be an issue. (Good luck with that, using unsized bullets and/or mixed brass). And if my guns could shoot FCD swaged boolit with good accuracy and no fouling. And if the FCD did not add a step (I CAN load some casr pistol without a separate crimp stage, and sizing bullets is easier than adding a step with a SS press,anyway). Then yeh I might used it to skip the sizing step. I don't think I will live long enough to stumble upon that combination of factors incidentally. And I sure as heck wouldn't go out of my way to look for it.

[swmass]

I use it on my 38 full wadcutters. They are tumble lube design and I load them as cast (about .359). They actually wont chamber into the cylinder of my GP100 or LCR without using the Lee FCD. I have a 356 9mm sizing die that I bought before learning a 357 would probably be best for me... If I use my 9mm FCD on these rounds I get some leading... when I don't use it I no longer get leading, so I believe it swages my bullets down a tiny bit and I dont have much to give after sizing to 356. I also used it on all my plated bullets before I started casting and found it helped with case bulge and ensured reliability of my hand loads with no cons.

[jeff423]

I think the best thing about this thread is in the second post a very clear explanation of the two dies was given. I have seen threads going many pages and getting very heated before everyone understood the difference.

[tazman]

I load my pistol rounds(38/357 and 9mm) on a Lee classic cast turret press. In the fourth stage I use the FCD for the final crimp. The third stage seats the boolit and takes the bell off the case.
With 90% of my 9mm brass the carbide ring of the FCD never touches the case. I don't know why, it just doesn't. Of the 10% that it does touch, the walls of the case are thicker than normal. This insures function in my pistols. I have never had a problem with accuracy or leading in any of my guns with this ammo.
With my 38/357, the carbide ring only touches the brass when using military cases. I throw these in a separate box for "blasting".
I have never had a boolit get swaged down by the FCD dies that I own other than some of the military 38 special brass. It may be that the dies I have are unusual in this respect. I don't think I want to be without them.

[DougGuy]

I
I have never had a boolit get swaged down by the FCD dies that I own other than some of the military 38 special brass. It may be that the dies I have are unusual in this respect. I don't think I want to be without them.

It would likely be due more to the diameter of your boolits than the FCD. Typically if you are loading .451" .356" the carbide ring won't even touch the brass. If you load larger boolits, typically the diameters most use for cast, .452" .358" or any bigger, the carbide ring WILL swage them down in the case.

Then again I understand that all the FCD are not created equally and some have a larger carbide ring than others..

[tazman]

It would likely be due more to the diameter of your boolits than the FCD. Typically if you are loading .451" .356" the carbide ring won't even touch the brass. If you load larger boolits, typically the diameters most use for cast, .452" .358" or any bigger, the carbide ring WILL swage them down in the case.

Then again I understand that all the FCD are not created equally and some have a larger carbide ring than others..

I think that is the case here.
I use my FCD on both 9mm and 38 special. I use boolit diameters of .358 and .359 in both cartridges. If I go smaller I get leading in some of my guns(my Beretta 92 FS has a large bore and chamber).
If I use .360 diameter boolits the 9mm FCD will touch or lightly squeeze the outside of the case, possibly swaging the boolit slightly. Doesn't happen with .359-358 unless the brass is exceptionally thick..
My 38 special FCD doesn't touch the outside of the case until I get up to .361. Some extra thick military brass will cause it to size the case with smaller boolit diameters, but not Rem, Win, or Federal. With the Remington brass and .359 boolits the FCD touches the brass at the crimp only.
I think the FCD dies I have are different than the ones most have judging from the reports on this site. It may be that I just lucked out.
Because of the system I use, I seldom resize my boolits after casting since most drop at .359 or .358 right from the mold. And yes, I purchased several different molds(Lee, Lyman, and RCBS) until I got ones that dropped the size I wanted. The NOE molds I have for 38/357 all drop large enough I need to size the boolits for them to work. The NOE mold I have for my 9mm works as dropped from the mold(.358).
The NOE molds work so well and the boolit designs are so accurate, that I am happy to spend the time sizing the boolits for the results I get using them.

[HeavyHev]

I reload for semiauto 9mm. I found that with a jacketed bullet alloy, the FCD would swage down my projectiles ultimately resulting in brutal keyholing (from as close as 1 yard). Pulled bullets would clearly show a ledge where the case wall pressed into the projectile. I mixed in a half bar of RotoMetals Foundry alloy and the problem is solved. I continue to use Lee FCD because aftermarket barrels have much tighter tolerances than the factory Glock. The FCD for sure ensures that the cartridge drops nicely into the chamber. My problem was the hardness of my alloy and I can see why wheel gunners would shy away from the FCD as it is unecessary for most of the projectiles and they tend to use softer alloy.

[r1kk1]

I continue to use Lee FCD because aftermarket barrels have much tighter tolerances than the factory Glock. The FCD for sure ensures that the cartridge drops nicely into the chamber. My problem was the hardness of my alloy and I can see why wheel gunners would shy away from the FCD as it is unecessary for most of the projectiles and they tend to use softer alloy.

Don't assume that people who shoot revolvers use weaker alloy than semi-autos. It depends. The 9mm generates a little more than half the pressure of the 454 Cassull and the 460 S&W. We own both. I shoot a gas checked 230 grain bullet in a 40 caliber wildcat single shot pistol. Yeah the lead is hard and wears a gas check. I have a Kart barrel in my Bullseye pistol and I've had no problems loading for that tight chamber. The same for the 400 GNR. That barrel is beyond tight and dies need to be adjusted to almost perfection. I did notice on the wildcat, if brass is greater than .010" thick walls, it will not chamber. I size cast bullets to .400" and turn cases when I need to. I don't use a pistol FCD on anything. I find a taper crimp works fine.

take care,

r1kk1

[jeepyj]

Marked for referance

[STI4ME]

marked

[HeavyMetal]

I recently re visited the pistol FCD die and found it had been upgraded from the original design I tried a bunch of years ago, it still uses the carbide ring to post size the round should it have out of spec dimensions but, more importantly, it no longer seats boolits as the original design did!

This allows for much more latitude in adjustment without interference from the boolit nose itself, the new design uses a tapered cone and is much more tolerant of case length than the previous design.

I will also strongly suggest the instructions be read and followed explicitly for optimum results, way to many people don't bother to use instructions and it does cause issues!

I've always used the rifle FCD die and am now adding the pistol FCD dies to my loading routine as they become needed, right now that 45 ACP, 9MM, 40 S&W and, strangely, my 44 special.

I will suggest reloaders look into the pistol FCD dies with the proviso that Lee's QC is still somewhat lacking and you will still have to keep your eye open for the obvious defects that will get out and sold to the consumer!

[gloob]

I reload for semiauto 9mm. I found that with a jacketed bullet alloy, the FCD would swage down my projectiles ultimately resulting in brutal keyholing (from as close as 1 yard). Pulled bullets would clearly show a ledge where the case wall pressed into the projectile. I mixed in a half bar of RotoMetals Foundry alloy and the problem is solved. I continue to use Lee FCD because aftermarket barrels have much tighter tolerances than the factory Glock. The FCD for sure ensures that the cartridge drops nicely into the chamber. My problem was the hardness of my alloy and I can see why wheel gunners would shy away from the FCD as it is unecessary for most of the projectiles and they tend to use softer alloy.

This is a curious solution.

I continue to use Lee FCD because aftermarket barrels have much tighter tolerances than the factory Glock.

If your ammo doesn't fit... what's the point of using tight aftermarket barrel and molesting the ammo to make it fit?

A different solution would be: figure out why ammo doesn't fit and fix that problem.
1. Bulges in cases? Bulge bust the cases before you load the ammo. Or segregate your brass that has been fired in your bulgy chamber guns.
2. Too much crimp bulging the brass? Back off the crimp.
3. Brass too thick? Ditch that headstamp.

.... and chamber check your ammo.

Making bullets harder is the bullet manufacturer/seller's solution for making bullets that will work for a greater number of people. Reloaders have more options for making superior ammo.

Besides all that, if the bullet is so hard that is springs back after popping out of the FCD, the FCD isn't a really good chamber check, anymore. You are ironing out badly overcrimped brass on the way back out, is all. This is not going to "fix" too thick of brass/bullet combination, anymore. The overcrimp is the only thing you are fixing... and this can be fixed by reducing the amount of crimp in the first place.