30-30 The most versetile Caliber?

[KCSO]

I have been working with the 32 Special some and as I compared the 30-30 and the 32 Special I have decided that whatever small advantage the 32 offers in accuracy potential is more than offset by the 30-30's versitality. The 32 special 35-55, 35 remington and the other lever gun calibers don't hold a candle to the 30-30 for all around use. I have 9 mold suitable for use in the 30-30 ranging from 93 grains to 180 grains and have used the gun for everything from mice to moose. I have been contemplating taking my next buffalo with the 30-30 just to see how it will do. Loads for the 30-30 range from a 93 at 750 fps to a 180 at 2000fps. In contrast the 32 Special is 160 to 170 bullets from 1400 to 2100fps. If there were more bullets made for the 32 would it be as good with all the different weights?

[felix]

The 30-30 should have a slower twist to be as gracious as the 32-30. You would change your vote should you get a pistol boolit or two in the 323 diameter. Try making up one on Dan's web site. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

I gotta side with KCSO on this one--the 30-30 and its 1-12" twist is just more useful all-around than the 32 Special and its 1-16" twist. 1-12 may not be as friendly to pistol-sized boolits as the 32's 1-16, but the 1-12 will stabilize a far wider range of boolit weights (lengths) than the 1-16 will.

One particular hunting load application that comes to mind is a version of the 303 Savage 190 grainer @ 1950 FPS--would the 1-16 twist stabilize a .321" x 190 grainer at such speeds? The 30-30 so loaded is a notch above the usual run of 150-170 grain flatnoses--although all three weights will do well for deer at reasonable ranges.

[StarMetal]

Well my best friend, from childhood to now, and I grew up with the Model 94 Winchester in 32 Special. So, it has become special to us. We experimented heavily with it even as teenagers. We even shot it with blackpowder. Even though this gun and it's caliber holds a special spot in my heart, in all reality the 30-30 is the better caliber choice. That bears out with history as the 32 spcl fades into history. The popularly and survival of the 30-30 spells out something and I believe that something to be that it's the more versatile caliber. As an interesting side not one of my Dad's good friends had a Model 94 in 32 Special, but what unique about it was that it had a blonde stock. Remember how, back in the 50's and 60's, blonde bedroom furniture was popular, well this stock was the same color and to me that color was more of an off white then blonde.

Joe

[45 2.1]

The 30-30 and all its brethren are excellent cast bullet slingers. What would likely out do it would be the wildcat 35-30, talk about mold selection there.

[StarMetal]

Bob

Even though the 30-40 Krag come along before the 30-30 my one friend got a laugh out of renaming cartridges and the we called the 30-40 the 30-30 magnum. That's kind of what it looks like is a little bigger 30-30. The 303 British we called the 303-30, just a 30-30 with a slightly larger bullet.

Joe

[jh45gun]

I do not know why but a lot of the 32 specials I have seen really have had crappy bores in the older guns. My first buck a 10 pointer was killed with a borrowed 32 special with a lot of luck as the gun shot like crap neither my dad or a couple of other guys could get it to shoot after I tried to sight it in as a kid. We blamed the sights and my dad said I could use it or use a shotgun.Well in them days in Northern WI hardly anyone used a shotgun. Most had lever 30/30s or Savage lever guns ect. I did not want to use a shotgun so I used the 32 special even though it shot crappy. The buck ran right at me and I shot and missed. I aimed down the barrel and shot again at its chest and somehow hit its neck. Now knowing what I know about guns I know we never looked down the bore of that gun at least not closely. Dad I am sure looked to see the bore was not blocked but I really do not think he was a expert in what good rifleing looked like. The rifleing in his 30/30 94 was mint even though it was a old model carbine. I would bet anything the rifleing on that 32 special was about worn out and that is why it did not shoot good. It was a Win 94 saddle ring carbine that the guy who loaned it to my dad said he bought it at a sale for 5 bucks. I would bet that is a other reason he got it cheap it did not shoot good anymore. It was just dumb luck I figure I killed that deer.

[StarMetal]

One of the things that reloading manuals mention in their little bit of brief history on a cartridge is that the 32 Special Model 94 Winchester had very shallow rifling as compared to a 30-30 and that they didn't shoot good after that shallow rifle had begun to be shot out. Now my friends rifle was in pretty good shape and to tell you the truth is shot darn good for buckhorn sight. Comparing the rifling at the muzzle to another friends rifle in 30-30 it was very obvious the 32 did indeed have shallow rifling.

Joe

[KCSO]

Felix
I am talking where is as is when I extol the 30-30. My other problem is that even though the 32 special should be and probably is theoreticaly more accurate, the platform I have to compare the rifles (Win 94 Carbines) doesn't show me any difference. My eyes are only good for about 2 1/2" at a hundred any more and this doesn't test either cartridge to its potential. I have shot the 30-30 rounds from a scoped 788 and they went under 1 1/2" from the bench. As to pistol bullets, at this time that is where the 30-30 shines in my eyes... I have bullets ranging from 93 to 115 grains readily available to size down for the 30-30. I have to buy custom molds for the 32 special. Tonight I went down and shot a mixture of 30-30 loads off a standing rest at 25 yards on my garage range. The total group for loads ranging from 93 gr. bullets at 750 fps to 170 gr bullets at 1700 was 1.65 inches. The 1700 range loads shot 3/4" higher than the 93 at 750 and the 113's at 1400. All rounds fired will kill a rabbit or squirrel with a head shot at that range. The hunting loads of a 170 Gr at 2100 from my 26" bbl will shoot into 3" at 100 yards and are just 1" lower than the 93's at 25 yards. Now the 32 might shoot the pistol bullets better at 100 yards, but I don't shoot rabbits at that range. I haven't gotten my 44-40 or 45 Colt guns to shoot any two disseperate loads to point of aim at either 25 or 50 so for the one gun, cast bullet man I will have to stick with the 30-30, at least until 32 special brass, bullets, molds ect are available at 30-30 prices. I like all my guns, but if I had to have one, like I did years ago it would be the 30-30.

[w30wcf]

KCSO,
Yes indeed, the good ole' .30W.C.F. / .30-30 is one versatile caliber. Sounds like you have a great selection of cast bullets and loads.

Over the years it has been factory loaded with bullets ranging in weight from 85 grs. full patch (Peters) to the 180 gr. Belted Bullet (Peters). Then there were the 100, 117 and 125 gr. lead bulleted "Short Range" cartridges and the fast stepping 110gr h.p. Super Speed @ 2,720 f.p.s.

The 1 in 12" twist will also stabilize the 311284 (220grs.) very well. Very surprisingly, using H414 powder, my 1894-1994 Winchester Centennial Rifle wll launch this bullet at slightly over 2,000 f.p.s. from it's 26" barrel. My load was tested at a ballistics laboratory and turned up 36,000 cup which is 2,000 cup below SAMMI's MAP of 38,000 cup.

In addition to being very versatile, it is one very efficient cartridge.

Long live the .30-30!

w30wcf

[beagle]

Well fellers, I like them both and the .35 Remington as well...and the .348 Winchester and the .32-40.......... You might say that I like levers..period.

The .30/30 is probably more reloader friendly than the remainder of the lever calibers due to our ranges being full of free brass, the abundance of good moulds and the abundance of good loading data. Just like all of the "medium" cartridges, it's friendly on the shoulder. I bought my first one in 1964 and it was used (a M94). The house hasn't been without one since and I don't plan for it to be until I'm gone./beagle

[Bass Ackward]

The 32 special 35-55, 35 remington and the other lever gun calibers don't hold a candle to the 30-30 for all around use.

Wow. This covers a lot of territory. If the argument is limited to commercially available products, then 30s alway win.

When compared to a larger bore for hunting, they always lose.

[jh45gun]

Well I do not know about that it all depends on what you are hunting for. I like my 45/70 but I like my 30/30 too and since my 45/70 is a roller made into a buffalo gun configuration, the 30/30 is sure a lot easier to use at least in my case. That roller weighs over 12 pounds with a 32 inch octagon barrel.

[KCSO]

I figure all around in hunting covers everything I hunt. Now I like my Henery 22 for squirrels and I like my 86 45-70 for buffalo, but if I HAD to I could and have used the 30-30 on both with complete sucess. I'm surly not saying the 30-30 is perfect for every chore, only that of all the guns I've tried this is the one that covers the broadest range the best. When I only had one rifle hanging over the back door it was a 30-30 and it did the job on everything until I got more and better. In those days I had an insert and shot 32ACP for samll game and 100 grain Speer Plinkers for coyotes and 170's for deer. If I would have had to try for a moose or a black bear I wouldn't have hesitated. Now I have in levers a 73, a 92, an 86 and 2 94's, a Savage99 and a Golden boy 22. If I had to go back to just one I would miss them sorely, but it would be the 94 left hanging on the peg. Now if I could have two guns...

[StarMetal]

Jeff Cooper once said if it wasn't for the possiblity of the magazine tube getting dented and tying up the rifle, that the Mod 94 Win 30-30 is one of the finest battle rifle one could ask for.

Joe

[Griff]

I can't add anything new or unique to what anyone else has said about the .30-30, but it's darn near perfect in my mind. It's only problem is that it was never loaded commercially in BP.
It's versatility reigns supreme over almost any cartridge ever developed. That has a lot to due with the popularity of the '94 carbine. That arm is also just about perfect, it's only flaw being that some idjit decided it had to have an angle eject. Heck my only reason for buying a Marlin was so I could mount a scope on a .30-30 and play with it.

[w30wcf]

Griff,
It wasn't factory loaded with black powder, but beginning in 1902, the Peters Cartridge Co. offered .30-30 cartridges loaded with Kings Semi Smokeless powder under metal patched bullets.

That cartridge pushed a 170 gr. bullet to 1,450 f.p.s. effectively duplicating the .32-40 b.p. cartridge ballistics. In my testing, it gave very good accuracy, someting I have not been able to replicate with any of the b.p. subs.

w30wcf

[StarMetal]

I have read somewhere, where it was claimed the rifling depth and the twist in the 32 special where made that way specifically for those who wanted to reload the cartridges with BP.

Joe

[JDL]

Well, count me in on a lover of the "little ace" as T. Roosevelt called it! I was a late bloomer because, it was only last year that I got my first one, then added a second. Even so, it has become my favorite rimmed cartridge.
KCSO,
Did you use cast boolits on moose? How about elk?
w30wcf,
I have got to try your load with 311284. Do you flatten the tip, or just use it as a single shot? Seems I remember, Mr. Frank Marshall flattened the tip and used it in a bolt action.-JDL

[w30wcf]

JDL,

For long range shooting (steel buffalo @ 1000 yards & NRA Ram Silhouette @ 500 meters) I seat the bullet to the base of the front driving band and single load them.

To be able to run them through the magazine, one must crimp over the front driving band and flatten the tip like Frank Marshall did. He used that bullet in his "shiney pre war '94" and bolt action rifles interchangeably. Too bad he is no longer with us. He gave me the idea to use that bullet in the .30-30 back in the early 80's and it does work!

Sincerely,
w30wcf