Just Rambling about a 457122 in a 45colt

[Rusty W]

I was casting some 457122's for the #1 Ruger out of some mystery metal I had bought from a local gunshop. I just wanted to see what the metal would cast like & how it would fill a mold. I figured if it'll cast with this boolit it'll cast anything. Well upon sizing I noticed the mold dropped at .457, just a tick too small for the #1, so I thought why not the 45 colt? I had read in the castpics page that it's been used so I thought I'd try it. I loaded 6ea with 6gr of Red Dot, 7gr of Unique, & 11gr of HS6. I shot them into an old Hickory stump that I use as a backstop to hold my paper plates, as you can see it's been shot at with just about everything. This particular boolit's impact was quite high for the Blackhawk's sights but when it connected with the stump it was like the hammer of Thor. Now I'm going to have to get some shooting gloves & buy a couple more pounds of H110. I've been shooting 32 mags & a new 327 Fed mag for about 2 months and almost forgot what the recoil was like in the 45 w/heavy boolits. I just got a kick out of watching those big ole chuncks of hickory fly when that 340gr boolit hit it.
Someone mentioned about shooting a slap of Walnut & I must say at a low velocity the boolit WILL bounce back. I was hit in the leg by a 38 & a 32 shooting into the stump shown. Good thing it wasn't a little higher.
I'm gonna try to get out the chrono. this weekend and do some load development for the 45 & the new 327. It's supposed to snow 5-10" on Wednesday then be in the 50's on Friday & Saturday. I'm ready for spring so I can shoot some of the ammo I've been building during the cold spells.

[beagle]

That stump definitely looks like it could use some cutting and rendering down for lead.

I've downsized the 457122 to .452 and shot it in my Blackhawk .45 Colt and it does fine. The nose is a little long for my tastes but it works. The RCBS 45-325-FN-U works even better as it's shorter.

Hogdon's starting load for the .45 Colt with Lil Gun gives me over 1,000 FPS and about all I want out of the .45 Colt./beagle

[Rusty W]

Hey, Thanks...I have that boolit too. I'll have to try it. That mould drops at .459 so I've been using it in the 45/70. Never thought about the 45 colt. I've been using a 452423 in it and haven't really looked for anything else. It's been working so I stuck with it. I have a .457, .454, & .452 sizer. I may have to see if it'll go down to a .452 & have enough lube groove. Then there's always 45/45/10.

[ktw]

That's more recoil than I care to deal with in a handgun, but I do like using this bullet in a 45 Colt Carbine.

This was a fairly long thread on this same topic over on Shooters Forum from a couple of years ago
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=22882

-ktw

[geargnasher]

I use the Lee 457-340 RF at SAA pressures (about 650 fps with powders in the Blue Dot/Longshot range), it's a nice thumper even at those velocities.

Gear

[dart55]

I too have that mold but mine started life as a 405 gr bullet. I mowed the bottom off to lighten the bullet and made it into a hollow point.



To keep the alignment I moved the dowel pin over and it still aligns properly. (most of the time)



Mold drops the bullet at 326 grs with 50/50 WW/Lead. The bullets on the right were pre hollow point and "as cast out of the mold after modification"



I made a top punch which recontours the hollow point for a greater "effect"



View of gun and bullets



Business end!! I still have not shot these, stinking snow! Will update when I do!

[btroj]

I too have used that bullet sized to .452 in 45 Colt. I used it in my Marlin. Shot pretty well as I remember. Just don't see much need for that much bullet in that rifle.
And it is a thumper at low velocity. Big bullets hit hard even if thrown by hand.

Brad

[geargnasher]

Dart, I like the way you chopped the alignment pin on that old Lee single-cavity mould to HP it, hadn't seen that before. I figured that pin was a show-stopper for HP'ing that type of mould, but goes to show the ingenuity of our members!

Gear

[Shooter]

I use the 457122 sized .545 in .454 Casull. 3" 100 Yd. groups of of a 12" Encore.

[dart55]

Well 50/50 WW/Lead was not the alloy to use.......

Chronographed the 325 gr bullet in a string.... 1231, 1217, 1189, 1176, 1143, 1131

I thought Uh-Oh I'm loosing velocity every shot!! Looked in the bore and it was leading pretty bad. Accuracy at 20 yards sitting and shooting off my knees was about 1.5" not bad but the last two shots were begining to vertically string.

I did the classic "milk jug" test that really doesnt prove a whole lot. The boolit detonated the first three jugs, then pentrated to the seventh. The hollow point fragmented and dumped almost all the energy in the first three and the recovered weight of the bullet was 245 grains from the initial 325.



I learned two things from the recovered boolits. First the grooves revealed it was skidding down the bore an accurcy past 20 yards would most likely have be poor and I needed a harder alloy.

Secondly I love the way the bullet shocked the milk jugs, shed the mushroom, and tractored on deep.

I know all this would be different in a real world test like newspaper.

What alloy would be better? I don't know much but I trying to learn especially with hollow points. My next step would be water quenched WW because I really don't know what to do. What do you think?

Oh Ruger Blackhawk. .4525 cylinder 11 degree forcing cone, bullets air cooled ww/pb sized .454 SPG lubed, 24 grains H-110

Thank you Guys

Dan

[Jech]

Waterquenching will do two things neither of which you want from the sounds of it. #1 it will harden your boolits which will hamper expansion, #2 it will make them brittle and even more likely to fragment instead of expand like in your last picture there.

If it was me, I would sweeten the alloy with more tin. WW are rich with antimony which lends itself to hardening the alloy but makes it more brittle. It's the antimony that creates the hardening effect when water dropped. Tin won't appreciably harden the alloy but instead increase it's "plastic" qualities allowing it to stretch, flex and expand more before reaching it's breaking/fragmenting point.

Check out http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm and http://www.lasc.us/ArticlesFryxell.htm There's a wealth of information there that should help you a lot.

[Doby45]

Yhea add some tin to those and you would get more of a "classic" mushroom.

[Catshooter]

Rustyw,

If you size & lube at .457 first, then when you use the next two smaller dies since the grooves are full of lube they won't shrink at all. Should size down to .452 with ease.


Cat

[JIMinPHX]

Well 50/50 WW/Lead was not the alloy to use.......

If you want nice mushrooms, think more tin, less antimony...

Maybe around 85%pb, 12%ww & 3% tin
or 90%pb, 8%ww & 2% tin

I've seen 20:1 lead:tin make real nice mushrooms at lower velocities, but at the speeds you are using, a pinch of WW in the mix would probably be a good thing. I'm just guessing at the actual alloys.

As for the leading, the first thing to check is the fit of your boolit in your barrel. Did you slug your barrel yet? Also, if you let us know where in the barrel you saw the lead, that might help us better determine what caused it.

[w30wcf]

I shoot the 457122 at .457 diameter with no problem whatsoever in the .45 Colt.
Early on I sized them to .454 but then I found that a .457" bullet would fit easily back into a fired case with the crimp removed.

Here's a fairly lengthy thread on the 457122 in the 45 colt.
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=22882

w30wcf

[StrawHat]

I have also used the 457122 in the 45 long Colt and been happy with the results. I sized them to 454 and loaded the case with black powder. Alloy was either 30/1 or 40/1. Lube was beeswax and olive oil. I have since gone back to solids in the handguns.

A bit off topic but does anyone have a copy of the article Keith wrote about blowing up his SAA with a similar load? I have misplaced mine and would like to reread it. It was one of his first articles for the American Rifleman and may have been repeated in other sources. If someone can help jog my memory, chime in!