My homemade black powder

[HWooldridge]

The Wano link shows several interesting things - one is that the mixing room has solid concrete walls but what looks like a very light sheet metal roof. If the powder went bang, it would explode upward and hopefully burst the roof without causing more serious damage.

[jmh54738]

Some volume statistics... I set my measure to deliver exactly 100 grains of Goex. I next weighed a measure full of the three batches that I have ready for shooting. Willow powder = 87.0 grains, Sumac powder = 75 grains, and the Aspen powder = 90.2. I had previously stated that the Sumac charcoal was the softest of all 8 wood species that were all charred at 600 F. All batches are the same proportions, milled for the same amount of time, pucked to the same pressure, dried and screened in the same way. I'll batch the Buckthorn next, as it was the hard crispy charcoal. This is not European Buckthorn, but the nasty invasive that had thorns tough enough to flatten my tractor tires.
Eventually I will get to shooting these over the chronograph and observing the fouling. You are right, density means nothing since I only use BP in M/L.
John

[dondiego]

Some volume statistics... I set my measure to deliver exactly 100 grains of Goex. I next weighed a measure full of the three batches that I have ready for shooting. Willow powder = 87.0 grains, Sumac powder = 75 grains, and the Aspen powder = 90.2. I had previously stated that the Sumac charcoal was the softest of all 8 wood species that were all charred at 600 F. All batches are the same proportions, milled for the same amount of time, pucked to the same pressure, dried and screened in the same way. I'll batch the Buckthorn next, as it was the hard crispy charcoal. This is not European Buckthorn, but the nasty invasive that had thorns tough enough to flatten my tractor tires.
Eventually I will get to shooting these over the chronograph and observing the fouling. You are right, density means nothing since I only use BP in M/L.
John

Sounds like you are talking about locust.

[LAGS]

@ H W.
When I worked for a Demo Contractor.
We tore down lots of buildings that had been used for some type of hazardous or even explosive material.
Some were even on military bases.
They were also built with strong walls and a softer or detachable roof.
Like you said.
That was to direct explosive pressures UP if there was any kind of problem.
That is why I mentioned making a shield for your tumbler working area out of sandbags.
It doesn't have to be like a big room or work area.
Just something to shield your tumbling area from exposure to the general work area or your shop.

[HWooldridge]

@ H W.
When I worked for a Demo Contractor.
We tore down lots of buildings that had been used for some type of hazardous or even explosive material.
Some were even on military bases.
They were also built with strong walls and a softer or detachable roof.
Like you said.
That was to direct explosive pressures UP if there was any kind of problem.
That is why I mentioned making a shield for your tumbler working area out of sandbags.
It doesn't have to be like a big room or work area.
Just something to shield your tumbling area from exposure to the general work area or your shop.

Agreed - sandbags are a cheap solution and maybe the best protection for the money in a home workshop.

[LAGS]

It has been mentioned about powder manufactures using rolling wheels to compress the powder.
I can see how that will be better for more consistent powder compression.
What we are doing with the press and die does compress well.
But it compresses in one large puck.
I have seen on the pucks that I make.
The compression they the puck is not totally consistent.
The top and bottom are really hard.
But there is a thin line thru the center level of the puck that is not quite as hard.
This can also be related to how well your water is mixed with your powder.
We are using so little water percentage to moisen the powder.
Is it totally consistent thru All of the powder in the puck.
I have found that to raise the moisture consistency when you mix in the moisture , run that mix thru a screen several times before you put it in the die to press it.
That allows for better more consistent moisture , without having to up your moisture percentage.
Using a roller / crusher wheel probably does that as well since you are not adding pressure to one area only at one time.

[jmh54738]

Yes, but this wood is Common Buckthorn (Rhamnus Cathartica), with stout thorns. The inner bark is bright yellow, while the heartwood is orange.
John

[HamGunner]

I worked up some "Rhamnus Caroliniana". Also called "Frangula Caroliniana", which is the type of "Buckthorn" that I have found in S. Missouri. It has similar leaves to the "Rhamnus Cathartica" but the bark is somewhat smoother. I did not find any that was more than about 3" in diameter. Wood is yellowish under the bark with darker orange heartwood.

It has reddish berries that turn black when ripe and they are mildly poisonous to humans as they contain "Glycocides". It supposedly gets up to 20' tall from what i have read, but I have never found any that had reached that height around here. I did not notice any real hard thorns, although it supposedly does develop some, perhaps when more mature.

My "Frangula Caroliniana" tested low in ash. I think I remember it to be right around 2 1/2 %, but I did not get it to burn all that fast so I did not do further tests on it.

[StevenDJ]

The compression they the puck is not totally consistent.
The top and bottom are really hard.
But there is a thin line thru the center level of the puck that is not quite as hard.

This can also be related to how well your water is mixed with your powder.
We are using so little water percentage to moisen the powder.
Is it totally consistent thru All of the powder in the puck.
I have found that to raise the moisture consistency when you mix in the moisture , run that mix thru a screen several times before you put it in the die to press it.
That allows for better more consistent moisture , without having to up your moisture percentage.

I have been making my pucks about 3-4mm thick (thin!) as this goes through the grain roller that I am using for corning the pucks. It is much quicker for me to make the pucks thin, than it is to break them up with a pair of side-cutters small enough to be drawn in. This may help with the consistency of the powder density through the whole puck.

Secondly, I may have followed your earlier instruction or maybe it came from someone else, however I agree that screening the water into the dry milled powder is a worthwhile step for me. Unless I do this, the inconsistency of the water in the puck is visibly obvious. It also prevents water from squeezing our under the hydraulic press, even though the water percentage is the same.

The part of the process that is preventing me going further is that I don't yet own a gun (I have a shotgun and .22s) that I can reload with my blackpowder. It is pretty hard to chronograph the shotgun. I think I need to develop a roundball load. Can anyone point me to a thread that may lead me in the right direction?

[LAGS]

There is a section about reloading or casting for shotguns on this forum.
I bet you can do a post there and find out what you need.
There is also a section for loading BP cartridge guns.
Those guys might have the info you need.
I also remembered that I have an old Hodgdon reloading manual that has info for BP reloading and I believe it covers Shotgun loads.
Let me try and find it and possibly forward you some info you need.
What caliber is your shotgun and what length are your casings.

[indian joe]

I have been making my pucks about 3-4mm thick (thin!) as this goes through the grain roller that I am using for corning the pucks. It is much quicker for me to make the pucks thin, than it is to break them up with a pair of side-cutters small enough to be drawn in. This may help with the consistency of the powder density through the whole puck.

Secondly, I may have followed your earlier instruction or maybe it came from someone else, however I agree that

screening the water into the dry milled powder

maybe that was me ? but a little different ---I mist spray the water and mix into the dry powder but I cant get even consistency so then I make the mix into dough balls and scrape it back through a screen before I press it = only way I have found to get it even - I was getting little wet and dry spots on the pressed pucks OR using too much water and pressing juice out of the die................................

Thorough mixing and screening at every opportunity I think is a big part of even consistent results.
s a worthwhile step for me. Unless I do this, the inconsistency of the water in the puck is visibly obvious. It also prevents water from squeezing our under the hydraulic press, even though the water percentage is the same.

The part of the process that is preventing me going further is that I don't yet own a gun (apart from my shotgun) that I can reload with my blackpowder. It is pretty hard to chronograph the shotgun. I think I need to develop a roundball load. Can anyone point me to a thread that may lead me in the right direction?

......

[shaman]

I am rapidly approaching having my first batch of ailanthus ready for the retort. I just harvested my last tree for the year, and I should have enough to fill a 1 GAL paint can with 7-inch sticks.

I need to know how best to split this stuff. How small do I need to get each stick. Will quartering a 1 inch diameter stick be sufficient? What about larger or smaller? At what diameter can I just stuff it in the can without splitting?


I figure I'll rig up a jig to hold a Ka-Bar knife with the edge vertical and then pound them through with a mallet-- kind of a reverse version of batoning.

[HamGunner]

I am rapidly approaching having my first batch of ailanthus ready for the retort. At what diameter can I just stuff it in the can without splitting?

I have always tried to get my wood to no larger than about 1" thick. Probably the most important thing would be to have all the wood of similar size for best consistency of char.

I built a weld wire cage for my wood to sit in so that none of the wood touches the retort container's walls. I get a fairly even char this way it seems. I have the probe of a thermometer inserted down about halfway into the pile of wood to help regulate my temperature.

[StevenDJ]

Probably the most important thing would be to have all the wood of similar size for best consistency of char.

Shaman, I read your post whilst still in bed this morning. The comment made by HamGunner above was the first thing that came to mind. You may find that if you try and split your timber that the split runs away from you and you get a tapered split. This would see the smaller ends char more than the thick end. Consistency is helpful.

[StevenDJ]

indian joe, I use the spray bottle too. I sit the milled powder on top of my 0.01g mass balance and pump away until I get the mass of water needed. Like you, I still consider the screening to be a worthwhile step even when the water is misted in. Consistency at every stage helps.

[indian joe]

indian joe, I use the spray bottle too. I sit the milled powder on top of my 0.01g mass balance and pump away until I get the mass of water needed. Like you, I still consider the screening to be a worthwhile step even when the water is misted in. Consistency at every stage helps.

I cant get it mixed well enough without the screening - its either spotty pucks or too wet - maybe if I covered it and went away for an hour ? but dont have the patience for that!

[StevenDJ]

I have a theory about mixing. I'm making this up as I go so feel free to tell me you think it is garbage!

The milling process aims to incorporate the 3 ingredients in very close physical contact. Mixing water into a powder may dissolve the KNO3 which then might migrate away from the carbon and sulfur. This may 'ruin' something like 1% of your well milled powder. Even when I mist the water I get clumps on the spoon that stirs the mixture. So, my goal is to distribute this as evenly as possible as quickly as possible, hence the screens.

Now, if I were to put this much effort in learning to shoot straight, I might actually see improvements on the target.

Yes, I'm too impatient to wait an hour for the moisture to reach equilibrium, but I seem to have enough patience with my own day dreaming.

[StevenDJ]

Another story that might just make some of you smile (or some cringe!)

I had the students in my science class make up 10 gram (about 150 grains) quantities of blackpowder using a simple mortar and pestle. It was safety glasses for all and some strict instructions.

We then went out on the school sports oval and, one-at-a-time, ignited their powder samples with some slow match fuse of cotton soaked in KNO3. The students thought the 'FIZZ' from their blackpowder was amazing, but they were even more amazed at 30 grains of milled powder, and even more so when we used my homemade corned powder in a heavy cardboard mortar (about 30 grains) under tissue wadding.

It was a good lesson to explain that there is more to chemistry than chemicals. Processes are important. We spoke about the role of industrial chemists who's job it is to make things work efficiently and effectively.

There are still schools 'out there' where the kids get to learn the fun stuff. It is a blessing to work in a small school, with a trusting principal and some kids that are willing to approach these things with the right kind of respect.

Thanks to the information in this thread and all the contributors. It has been a 12 month process for me to make corned powder. Although there are differences in opinions on what constitutes 'safe' every post has added value to this resource.

[HWooldridge]

What I've learned from reading as much as I can (both here and elsewhere), and also by making my own batches of BP - is that it's easy to make powder that will go bang but it's much more difficult to make good sporting rifle powder, especially for cartridges. Early on in my personal journey, I used the "CIA method" and it worked fine for muzzleloaders. All of my efforts since then have been directed at making better powder than I can get from the factory - which is where the devil is in the details.

[henryinpanama]

The part of the process that is preventing me going further is that I don't yet own a gun (I have a shotgun and .22s) that I can reload with my blackpowder. It is pretty hard to chronograph the shotgun. I think I need to develop a roundball load. Can anyone point me to a thread that may lead me in the right direction?

Here's how I would do it. Weigh the round ball, then look on a box of shells with close to the same shot weight. Take the dram equivalent and use this conversion chart to convert to grains. Load that amount of black powder in a shotshell with the appropriate wadding. It should be impossible to load enough black powder into a shotshell to damage a modern shotgun, but this procedure should produce a load with similar ballistics to the ones in the box. Make sure the round ball is smaller than the choke.

https://convertlive.com/u/convert/drams/to/grains