My homemade black powder

[dondiego]

Thanks for that excellent description of your process LAGS! I feel lucky to have these buckthorn alders growing in my yard! I have made BP before but never my own charcoal.

[Vettepilot]

@HWooldridge: I haven't gotten around to doing chrono tests with the Red Cedar chip BP, but it burns very fast and clean. I like it. I've got several types of BP samples to go chrono test, but have no idea when I'll get around to it. Way too much other things going on here, and I'm limited, personally.

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I too have tried the Red Cedar Chips.
They work great.
But I wonder if when they make those chips , if they had removed the bark.
Every once in a while , I would see tiny chips that looked like they may be bark.
But very few of them.

[HWooldridge]

The first batch of BP I made was from a single red cedar fence picket. I ripped it on the table saw then cut into lengths that fit in a paint can. I didn’t overcook the wood so it made nice, greasy charcoal that was on the edge of brown going to black. Made pretty fast BP.

[indian joe]

I've been using old wood - deadfall timber - down three years or so - dry - debarked - I am careful when I split it up to not use any punky stuff .... results are good so far (hybrid willow)

[Trapper-Jack]

I've been using old wood - deadfall timber - down three years or so - dry - debarked - I am careful when I split it up to not use any punky stuff .... results are good so far (hybrid willow)

This is exactly what I've been doing except I use the dead standing wood. Usually no punky wood inside. Skin off any bark that's left and split if needed. Somewhere I read that young wood made better charcoal, three years and less. I'm wondering if that is to make the bark removal easier or if the wood itself is better.

[FrankJD]

After I've read through the first 700+ posts, with many thousands left to go, has anyone compiled a detailed synopsis of the different variant BP home making processes?

Atom73 kicked this thread off with a good and fairly detailed show-n-tell of the CIA wet process that appears to be reasonably safe ... and then within thousands of posts this thread has morphed into a lingo game of sorts that almost requires a lexicon legend as other processes have been described, most in dribs and drabs. The devil's in the details.

As a rank pilgrim to the BP making game, I expect to give the Atom73 wet process a go because I'm gun-shy leery of dry lead balling KNO3, charcoal, and sulfur all together. Atom73 didn't use a binder. I'm looking only to make 3F powder for flintlock muzzleloader long guns.

Without adding a binder, will the resulting well dried 3F or 2F granules of BP turn into near useless dust fines when tamped down the tube by a patched ball?

As a side note, is it viable to "wet" ball the three ingredients together?

[LAGS]

There are many ways to make BP.
I started off just doing it by hand and grinding things up with a mortar and pestle.
Then since I liked what I was doing , I stepped up my methods.
I use to do the CIA method for powder to make rockets.
But It just didn't seem as consistant in guns.
I use binder in my screened powder.
But don't have to in my Corned Powder.
If you are worried about balling the powder with Lead Balls.
Just use lead filled copper to ball your materials.
For fully copper covered lead , just use .45 cal Full metal jacketed bullets.
Or even plated Boolits.
My biggest desire is to try and retain the historical methods of doing this sport or parts of it.
Our methods are far advanced over what Daniel Boone use to have to use.
I am also not a perfectionist that wants everything Perfect , or match or outperform factory powders.
I just do all this as a hobby and get lots of satisfaction and pleasure building my own stuff.

[FrankJD]

Not concerned about using lead balls for milling the 3 ingredients, it's the safety factor that concerns me most - perhaps unfounded, but nonetheless it's there - running a mill for hours at a time, building up heat via friction.

Without adding a binder, as Atom73 did, will the resulting well dried 3F or 2F granules of BP turn into near useless dust fines when tamped down the tube by a patched ball?

Instead of dry balling KNO3/charcoal/sulfur is anyone wet balling their 3 ingredient "meal"?

[LAGS]

I am sorry.
Wet balling is not something I have tried.
But you concerns for safety are justified.
But with proper observation , your safety factors are reduced greatly.
I first started making BP back in 1976.
Mostly for fireworks , but the safety factors are the same.
And I have yet to have any problems or accidents.
I think the biggest reason for me not doing Wet milling is the soluble factor in your materials.
Sulfur is not water soluble.
Charcoal just turns to mush with cold water.
And your KNO3 is water soluble , but only with Hot Water.
The KNO3 turns back into Crystals when wet for a long time in warm water.
I am afraid that when you have to drain off water then you will be pouring out amounts of your KNO3.
If you only ball the mix with a small amount of water , it will just roll into a ball and not mix evenly.

[almar]

Not concerned about using lead balls for milling the 3 ingredients, it's the safety factor that concerns me most - perhaps unfounded, but nonetheless it's there - running a mill for hours at a time, building up heat via friction.

Without adding a binder, as Atom73 did, will the resulting well dried 3F or 2F granules of BP turn into near useless dust fines when tamped down the tube by a patched ball?

Instead of dry balling KNO3/charcoal/sulfur is anyone wet balling their 3 ingredient "meal"?

I think that goex lists the ignition temperature of their product at about 400 deg F. If you get there from friction in your ball mill, there is something terribly wrong. If the barrel slips off the guides and it keeps running with one of the guides rubbing on the barrel, that might happen...but normal operation...no way. A spark can occur if you have steel in there or certain ceramics but not otherwise. That being said, it still is the most "dangerous" part of the process in my opinion so dont run the mill in your house.

[HWooldridge]

I used too much water to dissolve the KNO3 in the first batch of powder I made with the CIA method, and lost a lot of chemicals. The powder was still fairly quick but wasn't really suitable for firearms. I found out later that very little water is needed because it's heated to the boiling point and will hold a lot of nitrate. Less hot water means the nitrate will precipitate into the alcohol much more quickly.

With the above said, the dry method doesn't lose any of the chemistry because everything stays in the tumble barrel. A 75/15/10 mix will stay that way, whereas my first wet batch definitely lost some amount of nitrate (I could see some precipitate where I poured the water).

I do believe a good wet process has the potential to make superior powder because the nitrate is in soluble form, so it will permeate at a molecular level.

[Vettepilot]

After I've read through the first 700+ posts, with many thousands left to go, has anyone compiled a detailed synopsis of the different variant BP home making processes?

Atom73 kicked this thread off with a good and fairly detailed show-n-tell of the CIA wet process that appears to be reasonably safe ... and then within thousands of posts this thread has morphed into a lingo game of sorts that almost requires a lexicon legend as other processes have been described, most in dribs and drabs. The devil's in the details.

As a rank pilgrim to the BP making game, I expect to give the Atom73 wet process a go because I'm gun-shy leery of dry lead balling KNO3, charcoal, and sulfur all together. Atom73 didn't use a binder. I'm looking only to make 3F powder for flintlock muzzleloader long guns.

Without adding a binder, will the resulting well dried 3F or 2F granules of BP turn into near useless dust fines when tamped down the tube by a patched ball?

As a side note, is it viable to "wet" ball the three ingredients together?

Hmmm...

Well, you wrote in for advice. My personal advice is to forget all "wet methods" entirely. Really.

Messy, difficult, error prone, and NOT safer IMHO. Often produces inferior powder unless done perfectly, on the second Thursday of the fifth week of the 13th month, just before midnight...

;~)

Just me,
Vettepilot

[indian joe]

This is exactly what I've been doing except I use the dead standing wood. Usually no punky wood inside. Skin off any bark that's left and split if needed. Somewhere I read that young wood made better charcoal, three years and less. I'm wondering if that is to make the bark removal easier or if the wood itself is better.

Dunno -- I have plenty of choice so I cut branches 2" to 3" diameter - nothing bigger - that would put it in that 3 year window I guess.

[indian joe]

Hmmm...

Well, you wrote in for advice. My personal advice is to forget all "wet methods" entirely. Really.

Messy, difficult, error prone, and NOT safer IMHO. Often produces inferior powder unless done perfectly, on the second Thursday of the fifth week of the 13th month, just before midnight...

;~)

Just me,
Vettepilot

no! me too

Frank - really - forget the CIA methods and cooking wet mixes on the kitchen stove, forget alcohol in the mix
This is a simple process -
you specified muzzleloader so your easiest path is making screened powder - I gave you a good description of that process a few pages back

you put your four ingredients (KNO3, sulphur, charcoal , and a binder - I use 2% Dextrin because I can buy corn starch in the grocery store and cook it in the oven - Vettepilot uses glutinous rice starch - if I could find that I would use it but Dextrin is ok - the binder does not interfere with the quality of the powder to any noticeable degree ) so mill that for 8 hours -

so out from the ball mill you should get a grey mix like talcum powder

so mix that with water into what I call dough balls - its about the consistency of bread dough - maybe a little more sticky wet - you knead this stuff like bread dough - needs this amount of moisture and the kneading to activate the binder

- grate the dough ball through you window screen mesh and let it part dry - before it gets dry and hard put it back through that same screen to separate the grains and then dry it properly

- then screen it for grades - you will have mostly FFg and FFFg - some FFFFg and some fines - this powder will have about 75% density of commercial powder - so if you volume load - adjust your measure accordingly. ......Thats it !! all you need to do to make muzzleloader powder.

You have bamboozeled yourself with information overload - stay simple - go make some.

[Trapper-Jack]

Dunno -- I have plenty of choice so I cut branches 2" to 3" diameter - nothing bigger - that would put it in that 3 year window I guess.

The willow I'm using was on the place when I bought it 20 plus years ago. It's about at the end of it's life cycle and some of them are beginning to die out. The largest ones are about 5-6" across the butt. I'm using the ones that are dead that are in the 4" minus range. They seem to be working fine. For those guys using cedar pet bedding, I have a problem believing that all that's in those bags is young growth. I'm thinking that anything they can't mill into lumber or fence boards gets chipped and sold as pet bedding.

[DoubleBuck]

Trapper-Jack;
I'm with you on the content of the cedar bedding. If they are saw milling the lumber, then the bark and limbs are considered waste, to the mill. If they are using limb wood, there is no doubt they don't debark them. Actually, if they aren't chipping the whole tree, they may not use limb wood at all, as loggers fell the tree and limbers delimb them, before they are loaded to take to the mill.
Now, I'm not saying it is not good wood for charcoal. I have several native Eastern Red Cedars here on my farm. Cedar bark is really dirty. It is porous and stringy and not what I would consider good for charcoal, but I may be wrong, too. I have never tried it. I have used small debarked limbs to make a test batch. It was good powder, but far from my best. And, it ain't the easiest to debark, either.
Bottom line, I would like to know exactly what part of the tree they are using. I would trust them chipping whole trees more than I would trust waste by products from a sawmill. BUT, I have an abundance of various trees and wood available to me, where others are very limited on what is available. In that case, you use what is available and basically any charcoal will make powder. The quality may or may not be there, but if it works and is inexpensive to use, get it!

[Trapper-Jack]

DoubleBuck
I've made some powder out of the cedar pet bedding and it did fine, but not as good as my willow. Where I live, southern Idaho, it's pretty dry and we don't have the variety of trees that you buys back east do. This summer we are tentatively planning on hauling my step son's rat rod down to Galveston and then circle around and see my son that lives in Tennessee. There are lots of new trees to me there and I'll have an empty trailer. Hmmmm.

[LAGS]

Take a chain saw or SawsAll with you to cut off the branches you need.
One trailer full of branches will last you a lifetime

[DoubleBuck]

Trapper-Jack;
Slide through N.W. Arkansas, on your round. I'll feed ya and load you up with all the wood you can say grace over!