My homemade black powder

[DoubleBuck]

HW;
There you go!!! The mill will have you keeping your press warm and your powder quality probably just went up 100%.

[Vettepilot]

Now you're on your way! The only reason we all don't use brass or bronze media is the cost. I say, if you have it, use it.

Almar's tests indicated he lost velocity with higher density, and he uses NO binders. I believe he found around 1.6g/cc to be the compromise he liked best.

@Indian Joe: That's a very good question; I do not recall/know whether Almar tested his density of finished powder or not. Maybe he'll chime in, as I too would be interested in knowing...

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

I set up the tumbler and am grinding that last batch. Figured I’d give it four hours then check it. I threw in a box of old .41 caliber Speer half jackets from the loading shelf for media.

For best results, you want your mill jar to be half full of media before adding ingredients. Jar will be heavy!

Regarding lost KNO3, with as little moisture as you say came out of your pucks, I doubt you lost much. However, I can't speak to how much you might have lost with that wet method of making the meal...

Good luck, you're going to get there!

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Guys, I know I've complained of this before but...

A few years ago, I jumped into studying extensively about every aspect of black powder I could find, from government studies to many, many reports about homemade powder. One thing that really stands out is the very many times I read about increasing milling time and how it makes better powder.

Almost universally, people report that milling long enough is absolutely paramount to making the best powder, and most seem to think that 12 hours tends to give best results. I've read so many accounts of how people increased their milling time from even 4 or 6 hours to 10 or 12 and got better powder! I know it seems odd, but there it is...

There's lots of variables here, and your experiments might yield different answers, but I mill my powder for 12 hours. We don't have the old "Incorporating Wheels" weighing several tons, so my ball mill attempts to do the same job by simply running overnight.

As always, just my personal thoughts, and YMMV...

Vettepilot

[dondiego]

I set up the tumbler and am grinding that last batch. Figured I’d give it four hours then check it. I threw in a box of old .41 caliber Speer half jackets from the loading shelf for media.

Oh man! I sure do like those Speer .41 half jackets! Got any more for sale?

[Brimstone]

Lots of variables indeed. Something to look for, as you run your mill, if you check it every so often you'll note that you will reach the "airfloat" stage where the material is fine enough to be suspended in air and easily disturbed by the slightest puff of air.

As you pass this point, the material is noticeably finer, starts to behave differently. It's no longer as effected by puffs of air. I'm guessing it's been made so fine and hammered together so closely that air no longer easily makes it's way between particles.

Anyway you'll get to the point the material can't be milled any finer, it'll clump up. From here on out all you'll do is hammer your comp to the walls of your mill and/or form a ball of hard composition in the mill.

I strive to take my composition to the edge of clumping, just as it starts to build up on the walls but hasn't yet caked up hard

[HWooldridge]

Oh man! I sure do like those Speer .41 half jackets! Got any more for sale?

I have a partial box of 200 gr HP’s. PM me and we can discuss.

[HWooldridge]

Lots of variables indeed. Something to look for, as you run your mill, if you check it every so often you'll note that you will reach the "airfloat" stage where the material is fine enough to be suspended in air and easily disturbed by the slightest puff of air.

As you pass this point, the material is noticeably finer, starts to behave differently. It's no longer as effected by puffs of air. I'm guessing it's been made so fine and hammered together so closely that air no longer easily makes it's way between particles.

Anyway you'll get to the point the material can't be milled any finer, it'll clump up. From here on out all you'll do is hammer your comp to the walls of your mill and/or form a ball of hard composition in the mill.

I strive to take my composition to the edge of clumping, just as it starts to build up on the walls but hasn't yet caked up hard

Well, at two and a half hours, the mix was very fine and just beginning to clump, so I’m going to shut it off and do a puck press.

[DoubleBuck]

VettePilot;
I agree with the fact you can't mill too long and you definitely can mill too short. A little too much is only enough. That's what she said, anyway.....
That Waltham Abby book stated that the best brown powder in the 1858? Enfield, was 1.6 G/CC density. The standard of the time was 1.7. They also stated that 1.5 density was faster than 1.7 and 1.8 was slower yet.
That is why they went with larger grain size and lighter density powder. They basically went from 2f to 1f or 1.5 however you figure it. Passing a 12 screen and holding a 18 or 20 as I recall. That is a large grain compared to the previous benchmark they had.
Another note on the milling. I've only experimented one time, with shorter than 12 hour mill times. I tried two pucks of 8 hours and two pucks of 4 hours on the same powder. The difference I have noted on shooting the same powder on different days was greater than the difference that I observed in the milling times.
That said, since the clumping brown powder episode back in January, I have stuck with 12 hours. I don't think it can get any better but may surely get worse with less mill time.
I have a pound and a half setting on my kitchen table that I made two days ago, of the Spring cut small diameter Sassafras I sent you. Waiting for a warmer moment to press it and work it up. Man, it looks good. I guess we'll see if looks mean anything...

[Vettepilot]

Thanks Buck.

You doing ok? I'm loving it since it finally cooled off here!! Might even get back to powder making again once I get caught up a little. I've got an air powered jack I want to try out on my press...

Not really a big deal though, 'cause most of mine is screened for muzzle loaders and cap and ball.

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

Yep. 17° here tonight, for the low. Had a grunion of snow yesterday. Tonight will be the low for this season, so far. I'm rooting for Spring myself, but not wanting to wish my life away, so I'll take a little cold and wet. ha I thought Wyoming was chilly and it is, but NW Arkansas' 24° and 88% humidity with a 20 mile per hour wind is just about as radical.
We're burning wood like feeding a steam engine, but the good thing is, my wood stove will make killer charcoal, if I pay attention. One of those two bird things. I'm concentrating on the Sassafras, to see if I can make it my best. Hopefully it is as close as I think.
Get on that powder and shoot!

[HWooldridge]

Update: The milled and pressed powder was much denser and harder to break up. The flash rate also doubled, so the milling definitely improved the quality. However, crushing with a dead blow hammer generated more dust and less grains. I did two pucks and stopped - think I’m going to build a horizontal puck mill with a couple of brass rods before I go any further.

The density also increased, from about 20 grains yesterday from a 40 gr volume charger to 31 grs.

[LAGS]

I am glad our help made that batch better.
I break my pucks up with a pair of wire cutters.
I too found that breaking up pucks with a hammer made more dust..
I only chip the pucks down to a size that let's them fit into my ceramic coffee grinder.
Then I grind them several times , screen sifting them between grinds.
You can not set a Grinder to grind all of the batch to one grain size.

[HWooldridge]

I am glad our help made that batch better.
I break my pucks up with a pair of wire cutters.
I too found that breaking up pucks with a hammer made more dust..
I only chip the pucks down to a size that let's them fit into my ceramic coffee grinder.
Then I grind them several times , screen sifting them between grinds.
You can not set a Grinder to grind all of the batch to one grain size.

Yes, the help is much appreciated. I still believe I lost some nitrate in the initial wet process so the next batch will be milled dry, but this time around, a line of fines didn’t burn a bunch of holes in a test piece of paper - just went up in a swoosh.

I have two coffee grinders but they have steel blades and I’d rather not risk an accident. Will have to research further.

[LAGS]

I just used a steel bladed grinder to reduce my Charcoal before milling

[Vettepilot]

Yes! I mill my charcoal, and my KNO3 in a coffee grinder SEPARATELY.

When grinding finished product down, you want a coffee grinder with ceramic burrs.

You're getting there. Try milling longer too, and I think maybe your pressing needs modification. You say "30 tons", but how do you know that? Just because that's what it says on the jack? Some of us have put pressure gauges on our jacks, and I provided the calcs to get the right pressure a ways back.

Try pressing as hard as your set up will go safely. Then wait 5 minutes. Increase the pressure again, then wait another 5 minutes. After drying, bust/grind and test the result.

Vettepilot

[dtknowles]

Well, I tried my Black in my 450 BPE in a Berdan Primed case with a reloaded primer. My chrony is on the fritz but the recoil was stout. It was tumbled but not pressed, just misted with water and screened. Lots of room for powder in a 3 1/4 inch case.
Tim

[HWooldridge]

I noticed the ceramic coffee grinders are designed to minimize fines so that’s definitely a plus for our purposes.

The press is a 50 ton Dake commercial H-frame and it’s coasting at 30-35 tons. I use it to push bearings in and out of wheel hubs. However, I did not press for 5 minutes; I only let it sit for about 30 seconds - basically until the water droplets stopped emerging. I can certainly let it go longer.

[indian joe]

I noticed the ceramic coffee grinders are designed to minimize fines so that’s definitely a plus for our purposes.

The press is a 50 ton Dake commercial H-frame and it’s coasting at 30-35 tons. I use it to push bearings in and out of wheel hubs. However, I did not press for 5 minutes; I only let it sit for about 30 seconds - basically until the water droplets stopped emerging. I can certainly let it go longer.

less water !

ideally you want it damp enough to stick but no water coming out in the press -

that will require more thorough mixing -

only way I can get this right is to clump the damped meal up by hand then grate the clumps through a screen (window gauze) before I put it into the pressing die --

one of the boys suggested stashing the damped meal in a plastic bag for a day or two - that would likely get the same result but I am kinda impatient once I start something ..............

[Vettepilot]

Well, congrats!! You shot powder you actually made. That's huge, isn't it??

I just totally love shooting things the government and government caused market vagaries can't take away from me and/or price out of my reach!! My own cast boolits, my own powder, and I'm working on making my own primers/caps too! Yeah!

Congrats again! You'll definitely get it all refined.

EDIT: Whoops, I just noticed that wasn't HWooldridge that posted about shooting. Oh well, congrats to dtKnowles as well!

Vettepilot