My homemade black powder

[Milky Duck]

so what sort of accuracy should I expect using this home rolled in a cartridge .45/70??? is 3" at hundred asking too much or about normal without too much fuss???
will it be similar or worse than using smokeless everything else being equal,eg same primer and projectile???
my barrel has good amount of rifling,no its not pristine but far from looking bad at all.
I gave up trying to sight in using my duplex loading...not 100% sure if it was loads,rifle or me or combination of all three but ended up chasing my tail.
Im thinking to try sighting in using my smokeless load.....then try BP load to see if any real difference in group size or point of impact...6" low would be fine ,fingers crossed thats how it works out.

[indian joe]

so what sort of accuracy should I expect using this home rolled in a cartridge .45/70??? is 3" at hundred asking too much or about normal without too much fuss???

what is too much fuss? everyone will have a different take on that

will it be similar or worse than using smokeless everything else being equal,eg same primer and projectile???

is your projectile a good blackpowder design ? ie does it carry enough lube to keep fouling at bay?

my barrel has good amount of rifling,no its not pristine but far from looking bad at all.

I gave up trying to sight in using my duplex loading...not 100% sure if it was loads,rifle or me or combination of all three but ended up chasing my tail.

what smokeless were you using in that duplex ? are you using an overpowder wad ? if not ---try it

Im thinking to try sighting in using my smokeless load.....then try BP load to see if any real difference in group size or point of impact...6" low would be fine ,fingers crossed thats how it works out.

sighting in start up close take a shot at15 yards, ... then 25 , ...then go back to 50 and you wanna be dead centre horizontal and about 3 " high - then go to 100


if you fuss about some and have a good day, can see what yre doin and get a good hold can do this - its a weighed charge of FFg, 50thou HDPE wad over powder, grease groove boolit and a couple puffs on the blow tube between shots



or this ten shots at 100 (blowtubed)



or let a few rip at the local club - standing bench off the elbows @50 yd

[Milky Duck]

thanks indian Joe that gives me something to strive towards.....

[Vettepilot]

When I first started all this, the CIA or wet method of making black powder really, really interested me. But the moment I found I could make really good powder, rivaling factory powder even, using the dry method, I abandoned the wet methods faster than the powder burns!!

The hell with that mess; literally!

Just me...

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

VP;
I'm with you, but also glad to have the experience.

[DoubleBuck]

Indian Joe;
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is a 'couple of puffs off the blowtube'? Haha I'm pretty sure it means something I don't think it does. That is nice shooting!

[indian joe]

Indian Joe;
Sorry for the ignorance, but what is a 'couple of puffs off the blowtube'? Haha I'm pretty sure it means something I don't think it does. That is nice shooting!

I shoot dirty - dont wipe between shots - its been a "thing" for me for years - so I use a blow tube - mine is just a piece of clear plastic tube that fits the chamber neat and dont go down the bore - or I made one with a fired case on the end drilled out to take the same tube - I see pictures of guys in competitions huffin an puffin down these things - one long slow exhale does it for me - sometimes have to back that off a bit - all we doin is keeping the fouling soft enough to shoot through it each shot - needs plenty lube on the boolit too. Those targets were shot with an 1876 Uberti not a target single shot - I had been trying pretty hard with it and those are not my worst for sure. The cleaner powder helps and that gun with careful loading has delivered single digit ES numbers for a string of ten (a couple times - I'm not a crank on chrono testing - once I get a result good enough to convince me I'm on the right track I generally just go shoot)

[indian joe]

When I first started all this, the CIA or wet method of making black powder really, really interested me. But the moment I found I could make really good powder, rivaling factory powder even, using the dry method, I abandoned the wet methods faster than the powder burns!!

The hell with that mess; literally!

Just me...

Vettepilot

I never did that - watched a couple videos and said no !
I did try wetting my screened mix with water and methylated spirit 50 /50 - got soft grains and you could smell the metho coming out of it for ages after - the first test got better velocity but as the alko dried out of it the velocity went down - I proly didnt do it right but the straight water stuff worked better - its messy - its all messy!

[HWooldridge]

If I didn't already have the benefit of this thread, I would have approached this process with a muller design as is used in foundry work (heavy rotating wheel on a plate) to blend and crush the charcoal/sulfur portions of the mix - then incorporate the nitrate separately as the last step. A muller would make short work out of the initial blending - but it might also be a potential ignition source if not designed properly for non-sparking.

[Vettepilot]

No offense, but why are you so resistant to ball milling? 50 bucks at Harbor Freight and you're on your way. Or an old washing machine motor and some scrap, DIY one better and cheaper.

A discarded treadmill makes for a deluxe ball mill once re-purposed. Powerful, and variable speed. That's what one of my mills is, and I even made it without disassembling it nor ruining it as a treadmill.

Mill jars can be pricey. I have several size jars that I made out of PVC pipe. Simple, cheap, and work bitchin'.

Vettepilot

[HighUintas]

I use a HF mill and they are certainly worth the small investment

[HWooldridge]

No offense, but why are you so resistant to ball milling? 50 bucks at Harbor Freight and you're on your way. Or an old washing machine motor and some scrap, DIY one better and cheaper.

A discarded treadmill makes for a deluxe ball mill once re-purposed. Powerful, and variable speed. That's what one of my mills is, and I even made it without disassembling it nor ruining it as a treadmill.

Mill jars can be pricey. I have several size jars that I made out of PVC pipe. Simple, cheap, and work bitchin'.

Vettepilot

No offense taken and I have zero resistance to milling - just don't happen to have one yet; I don't like cheap tools and would rather get something that will last over time, but maybe the HF ones are just fine. I once had several tumblers for lapidary work but gave them away when I quit making jewelry. That'll learn me, durn me...

I've made many of my home shop tools so DIY is no problem.

Edit: Once I arrive at my final desired method, I want to be able to produce 3-5 lbs at a time to reduce batch variability and cut down on the repetition. I'm still in the experimental stages at this point.

[Vettepilot]

Hmmm... I really don't mean to be an internet "safety cop", really I don't... but be careful with that. Personally, I'm only comfortable doing a pound at a time, and even that worries me a little sometimes. It is an explosive after all, and throughout history many mills were shut down because they weren't there anymore... (Boom!)

Vettepilot

[Milky Duck]

my understanding of it,is the wet method is used to prevent.reduce serverly the chance of ignition during the mixing process,there have been some spectacular failures with folks doing it dry over the years.having it as a muddy porridge just seems like a much safer way to do it...for my small 1-2lb batches,they dried out on a bit of cardboard in a couple of hours in the sunlight,gave me plenty of time to keep chopping it up into lines with side of a ruler to keep it from clumping,and I got the fun job afterwards of burning the cardboard...smelt like guyfawks night in my back yard.
if its worked for hundreds of years,I see no reason to change it.

[HWooldridge]

Hmmm... I really don't mean to be an internet "safety cop", really I don't... but be careful with that. Personally, I'm only comfortable doing a pound at a time, and even that worries me a little sometimes. It is an explosive after all, and throughout history many mills were shut down because they weren't there anymore... (Boom!)

Vettepilot

Well, a "batch" might eventually be three to five 1 lb containers, run in close, sequential order so the process variables are minimized. I have handled and loaded commercial black powder for almost 50 years of my life and am still quite focused on not exiting in a big flash of fire...

[DoubleBuck]

HWooldridge;
You may be familiar with some people in your area who are into rock polishing? I have a brother in law who is into it big time. They have clubs with people who gather from all over and associate. They have some top notch rock tumblers, which are what the Harbor Freight 'ball mills' actually are. I ask my BIL about it and he said he could get me a good tumbler any time and some times pretty reasonably.
I myself bought a HF double drum tumbler/polisher about five years ago for $50 and have had really good luck with it. I think I have made close to 20 pounds of powder with it. I don't use both drums at one time, but with 50 lead balls of 60 caliber, it will do a half pound in each drum, in 8 hours.
If you do decide to get a tumbler of some sort, or make one, I have one suggestion. If you use lead balls, you will get a certain amount of wear off them, into your powder. I am in the process of replacing them with high tin content lead balls, quenched in water. Hopefully that will cut down on the wear. HighUintas posted about a year ago, that he had researched and was using a certain type of Stainless balls. 304 if my memory serves and it probably doesn't. ha. Others have tried ceramic but they are light and I'm not sure of the success of using them. I think lead is the best, because it is so heavy, but the wear concerns me. More so for the contamination of the powder.
Should you try a HF tumbler, there are a couple of mods you can make on them, to make them more efficient. And you can fill copper tubes with lead and use them as a mill media. Not sure if they wear well, or not, but someone here will know. Copper jacketed bullets have also been suggested.
VettePilot's suggestion on the tread mill is a good one, as well, if you can make your own mill jar. I have a friend right now who has offered me a free tread mill, to get it out of his living room. It would carry your three or five pound jar for years.

[LAGS]

@HWooldridge
I make powder in 1/2 lb batches.
I grain them and check different things like.
Density ratio by weight and flash tests.
If the densities are close to other batches , then I mix it with previous made batches.
Then I have a bunch of powder that is somewhat consistant.
IE.
If my batch weighs 80 gr per 100 gr volume or higher I mix it with others of the same or near weight.
If down like 70 gr of a 100 gr volume.
That get mixed with others of the same or near weight .

[HWooldridge]

HWooldridge;
You may be familiar with some people in your area who are into rock polishing? I have a brother in law who is into it big time. They have clubs with people who gather from all over and associate. They have some top notch rock tumblers, which are what the Harbor Freight 'ball mills' actually are. I ask my BIL about it and he said he could get me a good tumbler any time and some times pretty reasonably.
I myself bought a HF double drum tumbler/polisher about five years ago for $50 and have had really good luck with it. I think I have made close to 20 pounds of powder with it. I don't use both drums at one time, but with 50 lead balls of 60 caliber, it will do a half pound in each drum, in 8 hours.
If you do decide to get a tumbler of some sort, or make one, I have one suggestion. If you use lead balls, you will get a certain amount of wear off them, into your powder. I am in the process of replacing them with high tin content lead balls, quenched in water. Hopefully that will cut down on the wear. HighUintas posted about a year ago, that he had researched and was using a certain type of Stainless balls. 304 if my memory serves and it probably doesn't. ha. Others have tried ceramic but they are light and I'm not sure of the success of using them. I think lead is the best, because it is so heavy, but the wear concerns me. More so for the contamination of the powder.
Should you try a HF tumbler, there are a couple of mods you can make on them, to make them more efficient. And you can fill copper tubes with lead and use them as a mill media. Not sure if they wear well, or not, but someone here will know. Copper jacketed bullets have also been suggested.
VettePilot's suggestion on the tread mill is a good one, as well, if you can make your own mill jar. I have a friend right now who has offered me a free tread mill, to get it out of his living room. It would carry your three or five pound jar for years.

DB,

Thanks for the info. With regard to the tumble media, what do you think about just using 3/4 to 1" diameter solid brass rod, cut off to the same length (3/4"-1")? I have access to brass drops in a variety of diameters.

[HWooldridge]

@HWooldridge
I make powder in 1/2 lb batches.
I grain them and check different things like.
Density ratio by weight and flash tests.
If the densities are close to other batches , then I mix it with previous made batches.
Then I have a bunch of powder that is somewhat consistant.
IE.
If my batch weighs 80 gr per 100 gr volume or higher I mix it with others of the same or near weight.
If down like 70 gr of a 100 gr volume.
That get mixed with others of the same or near weight .

Lags,

Makes sense - I appreciate the response. Do you flash test every batch? I'm going to do a density test over the weekend to establish a benchmark. I have found that the grains are quite hard after pucking and crushing, so I'm hopeful density is high.

[DoubleBuck]

HW;
I think your brass rod would work very well, if it matches up well with your tumbler design. Basically, as far as I'm concerned, anything that won't spark, or excessively wear, is a good thing. Awhile back I jokingly suggested that pocket change might work well. What could be better than milling with money? haha

That joke wasn't all that funny. After metal detecting two year old modern money in the dirt, the condition tells me there won't be much evidence of it, in five hundred years. A mill would grind it to powder. Now, lead balls is another thing. In five hundred years, they may be the collectors' dream.....