My homemade black powder

[HighUintas]

I actually really like the tarnish that my cleaning leaves on them haha. I was just wondering what the compounds are in the fouling that is causing that tarnishing. I might like to save some of my case cleaning liquid for tarnishing my other brass cases haha

[Vettepilot]

Generally tarnished brass with a reddish tinge is zinc being pulled out of the brass. I've seen this sometimes when too much Lemi-shine is used in cleaning brass, or left to soak for too long.

I've heard something called Oxi-Clean detergent is excellent for cleaning brass used with black powder and seen impressive videos of it. Haven't tried it yet personally, but I want to do so.

Yes, regardless of what I read about the sulphur, pressing without some moisture doesn't seem to work.

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I dampened my green powder.
Then pressed it thru a screen.
Then I put that screened stuff in my puck die and pressed it into pucks.
It seemed to make it where you can use a little more moisture to make the powder bind together , without ending up with powder that pukes out water when you press it.
I actually started doing that when I mistakenly added my water twice by accident.
It saved that batch of powder , and saved me time having to let the powder dry out for several hours before corning it.

[Vettepilot]

I'm going to try sealing the powder in an airtight container and giving it a shake every once in a while over a period of time to distribute the moisture as has been more or less mentioned. I think getting the moisture well distributed is fairly important.

Screening works well too.

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

I used to add water and seal the powder in a pint or quart jar, for a day or two, but find it unnecessary.
I use small plastic Dixie cups which comfortably hold an ounce of powder, and add the water with a 1CC syringe, to get it accurate. .5 to .75 CC in an ounce of dry powder is near perfect, depending on the Relative Humidity. I press a couple of singles to dial it in. Stirred with a 6" long 1/4" wooden dowel rod. Experience tells when the water fully incorporates, by the feel and look. The plastic cups will sluff the powder without sticking, when it is right. I usually stir eight cups three or more times before pressing, which is usually less than 15 minutes. I generally press three ounces at a time, which turns out 1/4" to 5/16" thick pucks, from a 2" die with a 20 ton press, at less than half throttle and will produce 1.5-1.8 density pucks depending on need.
Pucks with uneven dark spots fresh out of the press, is caused by uneven moisture distribution. They should be even colored, with no moisture pressed out, and no white surface 'glazing' when dried. Not enough moisture and the puck will fall apart with little or no manipulation. Pucks which are too moist, when dried above 200°F, will 'blister' on the surface.
"The Works" toilet cleaner mixed 50/50 with water will make brass look new in 30 seconds. Inside and out. Just rinse and dry. It will also make any cracks or flaws jump out at you.

[HWooldridge]

I've been pressing a 1/4 cup of fines, using a Solo cup and a spritzer to mix, so my water volume is not precisely controlled. A syringe would be better.

I have a 50-ton Dake hydraulic press and have just been using 30-35 tons because it's easy to hit that range. I pump to that level and let it sit under pressure for a few seconds. A slight amount of water (a few drops) will come out from under the die and the puck looks like a piece of hard tar. I let them dry two days in ambient air then bust them up on a paper plate using a plastic dead blow hammer.

[HWooldridge]

Update - the second pressing yielded much less fines as a percentage, with more usable powder. Since I'm getting almost exactly the same amounts of 2F and 3F, I'm considering blending both sizes to use in my 44-40 and 45-70 loads - then use the 1F for anything I load for 12 gauge. This just simplifies storage for me, and I don't see any downsides. Has anyone mixed 2F with 3F and seen any appreciable differences?

[LAGS]

The only thing I have seen when you mix 2f with 3f is,
When sitting in a container or powder flask.
The larger 2f tends to be on top as it is shaken gently.
I don't think that makes a differance.
If you are pouring the powder out of a flask , it should stay close every shot.
If you are loading out of a container with a scoop.
Then your shots will start off with more 2f.
Then as you shoot more , it gets down to more 3f in each shot.
But if the two powders are from the same batch it should not matter.

[Vettepilot]

@HWooldridge: I was somewhat surprised to see it, but I have seen 45-70 recipes that specify 1f powder.

Worth trying?

Vettepilot

[HWooldridge]

@HWooldridge: I was somewhat surprised to see it, but I have seen 45-70 recipes that specify 1f powder.

Worth trying?

Vettepilot

Sure thing, VP - I never thought about it but see no reason it would not go bang - might be a little slower velocity but won't know until I try it.

[Vettepilot]

Our powder(s) are actually more consistent regarding grading than factory. This is because if you look at the grading charts as used by commercial powder makers, a certain percentage of granules both above and below the specified mesh size is permitted as a tolerance. Conversely, when we grade at home, we only collect what actually stays on the selected screen. I can actually see that my powder has more consistent grain size than commercial.

Does it matter? No, I don't think one could ever measure a difference, but it is kinda cool...

I don't think you'd see a highly noticeable difference mixing 2f and 3f either, if it stayed well mixed.

Vettepilot

[indian joe]

Update - the second pressing yielded much less fines as a percentage, with more usable powder. Since I'm getting almost exactly the same amounts of 2F and 3F, I'm considering blending both sizes to use in my 44-40 and 45-70 loads - then use the 1F for anything I load for 12 gauge. This just simplifies storage for me, and I don't see any downsides. Has anyone mixed 2F with 3F and seen any appreciable differences?

If you are chasing accuracy in your 45/70 I would not mix grades - got no definitive proof - just what works at my place

[HWooldridge]

I'm thinking out loud here (metaphorically speaking) but the main problem I see with the "wet" method of making BP is that there is a distinct possibility of losing a potentially large portion of the nitrate as it precipitates out of solution - so the rate of cooling is important. That being said, most recipes call for freezing the 90%+ alcohol overnight and setting the mix in an ice bath to hasten cooling. In my limited experience, the mix takes several minutes to cool and is nowhere near cold to the touch.

This leads me to conclude it might work better to use dry ice and acetone, the latter which is still miscible with water. Dry ice is cheap and readily available, plus it evaporates and leaves no residue. Set the acetone in the dry ice to chill then add to the solution, plus any remaining crushed DI. The mix should go to slush almost immediately, especially if the minimal amount of water is used.

This may require an experiment, so I'll report results if I get some time to try it...constructive comments are welcomed.

Oh and BTW, I may have a lead on a ball mill - film at 11:00...

[DoubleBuck]

HWooldridge;
That is a pretty good looking set-up you have there! And it made some good looking pucks. Awhile back, you had posted that you didn't have a ball mill? Did you get one, or what are you using to incorporate the media?
Sometime back, I would notice when prepping loads, that, as LAGS mentioned, finer grains would be settled to the bottom of my storage containers. As it neared the bottom of a container, there would be significantly more dust and loads showed a variance on the chronometer. Since I changed my screening habits to eliminate as much dust as possible, that has cut down a lot. Plus, before I weigh a group of loads, I just hand 'tumble' the containers, to mix them a little before I weigh charges up.
If the blend you desire is more like mixing the 2f and 3f, you could just use the passing 2f screen and the holding 3f, and not have to mix them. That would cut down on time, anyway.

[DoubleBuck]

It appears you are using what is called the Cold Isopropyl Alcohol (CIA) method. I used to use a wet method, but different than the CIA, with good results. In fact, by weight, it made my second best performing powder, to date.
I mixed the ingredients with 50% water and 50% Isopropyl (96%), to the 'mud ball' stage and put it in a quart jar sealed for a couple of days. Then screened and dried it, then grade screened it. That method actually still incorporates the KNO3 but doesn't lose any and is significantly easier to do. Just a suggestion.
I also used 2% dextrin, to firm up the grains. I had not heard of the Rice Starch, at that time. It sounds like it works really good.

[HWooldridge]

HWooldridge;
That is a pretty good looking set-up you have there! And it made some good looking pucks. Awhile back, you had posted that you didn't have a ball mill? Did you get one, or what are you using to incorporate the media?
Sometime back, I would notice when prepping loads, that, as LAGS mentioned, finer grains would be settled to the bottom of my storage containers. As it neared the bottom of a container, there would be significantly more dust and loads showed a variance on the chronometer. Since I changed my screening habits to eliminate as much dust as possible, that has cut down a lot. Plus, before I weigh a group of loads, I just hand 'tumble' the containers, to mix them a little before I weigh charges up.
If the blend you desire is more like mixing the 2f and 3f, you could just use the passing 2f screen and the holding 3f, and not have to mix them. That would cut down on time, anyway.

DB, no ball mill as of yet, but I may have a lead on a tumbler - just need to follow up and find out. Right now, I am using the same recipe posted by Atom73 at the beginning of this thread.

The puck die is a piece of 3" diameter aluminum bar with a 1.75" brass piston - I had some scrap lying around the shop and figure it would make a good non-sparking combo.

I did think about just using 'the passing 2f screen and the holding 3f' but it was after I had already separated all three sizes. Next batch, I'll probably do that stack of screens.

[HWooldridge]

It appears you are using what is called the CIA method (wet). I used to use a wet method, but different than the CIA, with good results. In fact, by weight, it made my second best performing powder, to date.
I mixed the ingredients with 50% water and 50% Isopropyl (96%), to the 'mud ball' stage and put it in a quart jar sealed for a couple of days. Then screened and dried it, then grade screened it. That method actually still incorporates the KNO3 but doesn't lose any and is significantly easier to do. Just a suggestion.

GREAT SUGGESTION! I will try that next...thanks very much!

[DoubleBuck]

GREAT SUGGESTION! I will try that next...thanks very much!

HW;
Over time, we've discussed the need of that alcohol in the mix. Indian Joe was the one who influenced me on that. I had only used the Isopropyl/water because that was how I was taught. Joe said the alcohol added no benefit and wasn't necessary. So, I tried a couple of batches as he did it and could see no appreciable difference in not using the alcohol. I thought it helped with quick drying and he thought it made a difference in grain strength (lesser). With using a binder, I could not tell a difference in the grain strength, but just water seems to perform as well, for me. And, cutting the expense of the alcohol is a plus.
Now, from what I read, the alcohol does not affect, nor is it affected by the KNO3. Likewise, the Sulfur is not affected by Alcohol. That leaves only the Charcoal to be affected and that leaves room for discussion. It would be a really good thing, wet. But, when it evaporates, then basically, all trace is gone. But, while it was wet, did it expand the charcoal? There's the rub. And, water expands the charcoal, too, so is there a noticeable difference for our use?
If the surface area of the charcoal is increased, the ability to carry a flame front is also increased. But, in a black powder rifle, can you tell the difference? As much as I would love to argue you can; in truth I cannot. There are too many variables for me.
I have tried the CIA method and have used the recipe I was taught. When I started pressing pucks, from reading this forum; I used alcohol/water 50/50. Recently, I chased the rabbit again, to see if it made a difference, in my pressed powder and honestly could not conclude. But, I can make some very respectable powder without relying on the alcohol.
Your mileage may vary. If you do like I did, you'll try every good sounding idea and draw your own conclusions. That is what keeps me interested.
Good luck! You're headed the right direction, and there is a lot of help here, if needed. Keep us posted on your results!

[HWooldridge]

HW;
Over time, we've discussed the need of that alcohol in the mix. Indian Joe was the one who influenced me on that. I had only used the Isopropyl/water because that was how I was taught. Joe said the alcohol added no benefit and wasn't necessary. So, I tried a couple of batches as he did it and could see no appreciable difference in not using the alcohol. I thought it helped with quick drying and he thought it made a difference in grain strength (lesser). With using a binder, I could not tell a difference in the grain strength, but just water seems to perform as well, for me. And, cutting the expense of the alcohol is a plus.
Now, from what I read, the alcohol does not affect, nor is it affected by the KNO3. Likewise, the Sulfur is not affected by Alcohol. That leaves only the Charcoal to be affected and that leaves room for discussion. It would be a really good thing, wet. But, when it evaporates, then basically, all trace is gone. But, while it was wet, did it expand the charcoal? There's the rub. And, water expands the charcoal, too, so is there a noticeable difference for our use?
If the surface area of the charcoal is increased, the ability to carry a flame front is also increased. But, in a black powder rifle, can you tell the difference? As much as I would love to argue you can; in truth I cannot. There are too many variables for me.
I have tried the CIA method and have used the recipe I was taught. When I started pressing pucks, from reading this forum; I used alcohol/water 50/50. Recently, I chased the rabbit again, to see if it made a difference, in my pressed powder and honestly could not conclude. But, I can make some very respectable powder without relying on the alcohol.
Your mileage may vary. If you do like I did, you'll try every good sounding idea and draw your own conclusions. That is what keeps me interested.
Good luck! You're headed the right direction, and there is a lot of help here, if needed. Keep us posted on your results!

DB,

I’ve been under the impression that the alcohol is introduced only as a dewatering agent, and has no other purpose. The amount that is added in the original CIA formula seems excessive to my eye but I was following a published recipe.

It makes sense that water alone can also work but the apparent concern is that the nitrate will precipitate out, so that moisture has to be controlled.

What I have observed so far, in my very limited experience, is the importance of thoroughly mixing the charcoal and sulfur before the nitrate is introduced. I have several local woods I’m eventually going to try for charcoal but I’m sticking with red cedar for now to minimize variables.

I’m making small batches and will comment on both success and failures. Many thanks for the encouragement.

Thx, HW

[DoubleBuck]

I don't think you will go wrong either with or without it. Both ways have worked well, for me.