My homemade black powder

[KenH]

Thank ya'll for the comments and guidance. I "think" some of the looks of that puck are from the jury rigged setup I used for pressing. It didn't do very good at all and had a rough finish. I "think" most of the white is actually a light reflection while taking photo. I've got a batch milling now (started about 18 hrs ago) to try pressing with my new puck press setup. I'm hoping the puck will look better.

The sulfur (10 gram) and charcoal (15 gram)are both VERY fine (like talcum powder) out of the bag. The KNO3 (75 gram) is in pellets that I ran thru the pepper grinder, then ground in a mortar pestle type setup until it was "somewhat" fine. The dry mixture then went into the HF tumbler with lead balls and tumbled for around 20 hrs or so.

The puck is then dried at around 150F for a few hrs, then crumbled up and ran thru the pepper grinder.

When I get the milled powder from the tumbler today I'll take a photo of the powder and we'll see how fine the mixture is today.

Should I milled the KNO3 alone in the tumbler for a few hrs before mixing in the charcoal and sulfur? That might allow assuring the KNO3 is a finer powder?

[LAGS]

I always tumble mill all three of my chemicals separate.
That way they are pretty consistant when I weigh them then tumble them together.
It takes more time , but is worth it.
I also mill the chemicals when I get them.
Then store them so in a way they don't get lumpy again.

[KenH]

What is the purpose of tumble milling the sulfur or charcoal separately if it's already finer than talc powder? I can understand milling the KNO3 I have that is ground thru the pepper grinder. Milling it separately should help get it as fine as possible. I'll put a batch of KNO3 on today and mill until tomorrow and see how it looks.

Here's what a puck looks like this morning with new puck pressing setup. You can see the machining marks.

[LAGS]

I run my sulfur thru a 100 grit screen when I get it.
You will be surprised on how much of it won't pass thru that screen.
That will show you that it really isn't as fine as you think or how it feels.
Same goes for the PC and Charcoal.
The super fine powders do hide little chunks very well.
But using the screen just gets things closer to uniform before you do the green mix milling.
A 60 grit screen would probably work just fine too.

[Vettepilot]

I (separately) mill my charcoal and potassium nitrate (if it's prilled) in a blender before ball milling it all together.

That last puck looks MUCH better. Proper ball milling a sufficient time is one of the most important keys to good powder. Do you have your ball mill jar at least 1/2 full of lead media before powder?

Vettepilot

[KenH]

When you say "100 grit screen" is that something like this" "Avanti Pro12 in. x 18 in. 100-Grit Sanding Screen" which is a drywall sanding screen. I've looked and don't find anything like a screening mesh.

Both my sulfur and charcoal are both really fine, more like talcum powder level fine. Looking thru the pile I pour out I don't seen any lumps at all, but don't have a problem with screening it - "IF" I can find the screen

Thank you for your input, I need all the help I can get

[Vettepilot]

That drywall sandpaper refers to the "grit" not the screen size.

Amazon has lots of screens. Try searching "sieve screens" instead of just screen.

Vettepilot

[Richard66]

I order my screens from McMaster Carr and build a wood frame for them they have all sizes in stainless I think mine are 2 feet by 12 or 14 inches wide

[KenH]

Yep, you're right (as usual about searching for "sieve screens". They turned right up and found what I'm looking for. Thanks,

[LAGS]

I don't do all that much powder making.
So I just bought the 6" stackable screens going from #10 down to 100.
I bought 7 total.
#10 , #20 ,#30 #40 ,#50 ,#60 ,#100
They have worked fine and are stored easily.
But for years I just used various sized and mesh Kitchen strainers.

[KenH]

Do you have your ball mill jar at least 1/2 full of lead media before powder?
Vettepilot

I missed responding to your question yesterday. Yes, my HF tumbler container is right at half full of .5" lead balls, and .50 cal 500 grain cast bullets.

A funny, I put 300 grams of KNO3 pellets in the tumbler yesterday. After 2 to 3 hrs of running it was looking pretty good, but still lots of pellets that had not milled yet. I should have took it out then and screened thru a fine screen. I left it running over night. This morning there is the most perfect round ball about the size of a tennis ball. Hard as a rock and doesn't seem to be fragile at all. No KNO3 powder, only a good bit of the original round KNO3 pellets. It seems all the powder changed into that round hard ball. OH well, I've got plenty of the KNO3 pellets. The KNO3 pellets are about .07" to .90" in diameter and fairly round in shape.

I just checked that round ball again - it's a hard shell with the powder inside. I think I can break open the shell and screen the powder inside. My screens should be here tomorrow. I've got 3 pans, 10, 80, and 200 mesh. Not sure what that 200 can be used for. I've also got an 8"X10" screen that's 20 mesh coming tomorrow.

[swamp]

I found that you have to break up the prills before milling. I run them thru my coffee grinder first. Use the same setting that I use for powder.
swamp

[HamGunner]

I have Potassium Nitrate in prill form that I get from Duda Diesel. I grind them in my electric coffee grinder until they will pass through a 40 mesh screen before milling. I have never had any problems getting good pulverization that has milled consistency of talcum powder.

https://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=10pn



The tendency to try to slightly clump might have been due to the high humidity or slightly damp meal during milling. I have had results with less tendency to clump during the hot summer months.





Burn test, although not of great scientific importance I doubt, does show a fast burn speed and fairly complete burn as the paper is just scorched and does not burn through. The charcoal (Black Willow and Sassafras) was what I had left over from two previous batches along with the leftover fines after those batches were screened. Made some good powder. I normally mill longer than 6 hours, but this batch was made up of very fine ingredients and lots of fines from previous batches, so I checked after 4 hours and it was looking good and I only ran it another 2 hours for a total of just 6 hours.



This mill is decent sized and is called a 15 lb. or maybe a 17 lb. capacity. I normally mill a 2 - 2 1/2 lb. batch of BP, but certainly 3 lb. would fit. I run it outside in a safe location of course. It is at least 1/4 full of 12 gauge sized round ball and various other smaller sized buck shot including 50 gr. single (0) .319 buck, 75 gr. .375 cal. ball, and some 91 gr. .375 Cal. Conicals.

[Brimstone]

Good looking mill comp.

[KenH]

Thank ya'll for continuing comments. The KNO3 is the same 99.8% purity prilled pellets I've got. Same looking bag. I think there was some "damp" issues with the milling that made it from the round ball. I broke it apart and got the "caked" powder on the inside and it was actually damp(ish) feeling. I dried in toaster oven at 140F and it's now pretty good. Tomorrow when the screens come in I'll screen the fine powder out and make another batch. Since my tumbler is the HF 3lb size I make 100 gram size batches to learn the ropes.

Thank ya'll again for following along with me and helping with advice and comments.

@HamGunner: is that ham gunner as in hogs? OR, as in ham radio and shooting?

73 de Ken H> K9FV

[Vettepilot]

Well guys, one has to question his motivation and desires for doing this, I guess. Universally I suppose, everyone get's some or all of these benefits:

Ready Black Powder availability not subject to market vagaries.
Much, much reduced cost.
Possibly better (cleaner) performance.
Self reliance.
Self satisfaction.
Just plain "something to do" busy work.

Now that last one is definitely not a "thing" for me! I've got plenty to do to keep me busy well into the next life!!

So eliminating any steps or work that I feel relatively unimportant and unlikely to affect my final outcome is important to me. There's a fair amount of thought that goes into that for me, to obtain expediency and efficiency in my black powder endeavors, so I can go on to some other effort that day.

Right now, in the current conversation, we are speaking of component preparation. I see no need really, to screen each component. (Note that I live in a dry climate, and some of you just might need to include this step, but I don't think so.)

My sulphur comes powdered, and I feel the very few little clumps it might have will very definitely get busted up in the ball mill. As I mentioned, I do mill my charcoal in a coffee grinder, and I just consider that a step in making usable powdered charcoal. Then, if my KNO3 is in prill form, I do the same with that. In each case, I mill it very well. I feel a little more time in the coffee grinder with me shaking it thoroughly is more productive than screening the component to check it. Screening each component is time consuming and messy.

Then, I ball mill the he11 out of everything. I just don't understand those that brag about using short mill times. What's wrong with leaving it run while you sleep, to ensure great powder? "Incorporation" as it's often called, which occurs during the ball milling in our case, has long been known as a critical step.

If any little sulphur balls or nitrate prill pieces make it through your ball milling, you've got a big problem that should be resolved for sure. But in my opinion, not by screening each component. Fix your ball milling set up/procedure. Just my thoughts here.

But then, maybe you guys are making better powder than me...

;~)

Vettepilot

[Super Sneaky Steve]

If this puck were a hamburger it would look like this.

[HamGunner]

Thank ya'll for continuing comments.
@HamGunner: is that ham gunner as in hogs? OR, as in ham radio and shooting?

73 de Ken H> K9FV

I am a HAM radio operator. FCC call sign n0ubx. Been a Ham for over 30 years, but a shooter for 65 years, if you count my Daisy BB rifle years. Been shooting and casting since the early 70's. Retired over 13 years ago after working 30 years for the US Bureau of Prisons. So you can say I was in and out of prison for 30 years.

[Brimstone]

Vette, I don't leave it running longer than an hour not because I'm in a rush but rather that at 80 rpm and half full of shot, my mill will clump my mix in 2 hours and I've not seen an improvement taking the mix to the clump zone.

I credit a very efficient mill and very soft comp.
I'm not inclined to break up a soft ball sized chunk of powder. 1 hours is all I need.

[HamGunner]

Right now, in the current conversation, we are speaking of component preparation. I see no need really, to screen each component. (Note that I live in a dry climate, and some of you just might need to include this step, but I don't think so.)
Vettepilot

I do not live in a dry climate, and I do think that moisture hinders the milling process a bit. The components do need to be as dry as we can get them both for milling and then later when we ready the finished product to be topped off in the powder can.

But actually moisture is not the reason that I would think one needs to screen the components at least somewhat, before mixing and milling.

I have never milled the individual components separately, although that is certainly a possibility for attaining good components if one's grinding process is not sufficient to do so. If decently refined (ground) or (milled) products are introduced into the final milling process, then the process of a complete and thorough mix should not take nearly as long, but more importantly one is more assured of getting a good batch with all components having an equal chance of being hammered into talcum powder like consistency and combined evenly with the others. One component that has even a small bit of it's percentage that is too coarse to reach that fine consistency in the final mill mix would degrade the whole batch.

I do screen a good bit, but my sulfur has already been screened and 10-20 minutes in the mill and it will be back to fine powder. I do screen my Potassium Nitrate and my Charcoal, but I only screen down to 40 mesh. There is plenty of reject material that has to go back to the grinder a few times before it will pass 40 mesh. So basically, I am final milling a 40 mesh or smaller mix. Now that is not actually all that fine, and some might even go further than that before final milling, but my mill seems to handle it at that point. And I normally mill for 8-12 hours.

I suppose there are about as many ways of doing these processes as one has imagination, but we all are striving to attain a well blended and bonded mix of the 3 components. It is a nasty job and I learned right fast that Charcoal is the main cause of this "nastiness" and never mess with it indoors. I try to remember to wear a mask when messing with Charcoal and I try not to manipulate and spread it's dust anymore than necessary. Even so, I always end up with not only dirty hands, but a filthy dirty face and nose. But like many other things in life that give us pleasure in the end, I always go back for more of this "torture" as I actually, sort of, kinda, like it.