My homemade black powder

[Brimstone]

I weigh my distilled water out at 4% of the weight of the milled powder.
Florida is humid, even still the unpressed material yet to go through the pressing process will flash dry pretty quick. I never get seeping from my die and powder column. I never add more water either.
It does get a bit crumbly towards the last few spoon fulls into the column.

It all comes out as a uniform ceramic like puck at 1.8g/cc at 1/4" thick.

[KenH]

Thank ya'll for all the responses. As mentioned I'm more interested in making the BP just to show I can do it - I don't shoot enough each year to worry about - less than a lb I'm sure. Especially since they moved the city limits to border my property where the shooting range was. Before there was a 40 acre field with trees behind that. Now there is are houses next to the property fence.

IndianJoe, Vettepilot, Hamgunner, and others - thank ya'll for your description of the piston setup, and the link where I can see a photo of the setup. I'll plan to make the pressure stuff. I'll use the hydraulic press that is used for making Damascus and general forging. I'm in the middle of making some knives for Christmas presents now, and the wife is fussing for her CuMai folder I've got started. BP sorta has to take a back burner to all that. BUT - being retired, I do tend to "get around" to playing with lots of projects

I've done some thinking about making my own charcoal, but..... we'll see. I've got an old Duck Oven I can use in the Green Egg grill - what temperature for best charcoal?

Allow me to say this thread has provided me with hours of good reading over the years - Thank you to all folks for the knowledge shared.

Ken H>

[mmb617]

This is Woody's puck dies that I have been using. I have the 3" and have done just fine with a 12 ton press and I have at least four layers of the delrin plastic disks to separate the pucks into five layers so that they are fairly thin once compressed. Thinner is so much easier to dry, bust up, and grind down to a proper size for screening.

Great minds think alike as I have the exact same setup, 3" Woody's dies, 12 ton press and press 5 pucks at a time. I weigh out 22-23 grams of dampened meal to spoon into each layer in the puck die which gives me pucks that are thin enough to breakup easily in my grain mill after drying for 72 hours in a dehydrator.

There's been a lot of discussion about charcoal and the best wood to use in this thread. And I get that some guys are striving to make the absolute best powder they can. I'm not one of those guys though. My powder gives me chrono results that are roughly 90% of Goex velocities per same volumes. It flows well, ignites reliably and causes no discernible lag in firing. I'm not a hunter, I just shoot paper, so that's plenty good enough for me.

Since I didn't know where to get willow when I started and I'd read that cedar was pretty good I made my first charcoal from cedar fence pickets I bought at Home Depot. I was satisfied with those results, and when I mentioned it to my friend who manages a lumber distribution yard he brought me what is probably a lifetime supply of cedar scraps. I believe he said they were Eastern white cedar. I tried those and they also worked well so I'll never need to buy anymore wood for charcoal.

I've tried some different things and refined my process a few times now and I think I'm finally at a point where I can just keep making what I need when I need it. It's certainly been an interesting addition to the black powder shooting hobby.

The guys in this forum have been really helpful and I enjoy just reading their thoughts whether they are the perfectionists or just half assed powder makers like me.

[Brimstone]

I glaze my 1-3F. No graphite. I granulate immediately after the 500 gram batch is pressed and still damp, I glaze using HF dual tumbler and I've found my glazing time substantially reduced when glazing damp as opposed to dry glazing.

Interesting note: Glazing damp results in some of the finer grains gathering the damp glazing dust and forming perfectly round low density balls that perfectly resemble Swiss "caviar" powder. Last glazing run I ended up with maybe 50 of such "caviar" balls in the 2FG range.

[HWooldridge]

I glaze my 1-3F. No graphite. I granulate immediately after the 500 gram batch is pressed and still damp, I glaze using HF dual tumbler and I've found my glazing time substantially reduced when glazing damp as opposed to dry glazing.

Interesting note: Glazing damp results in some of the finer grains gathering the damp glazing dust and forming perfectly round low density balls that perfectly resemble Swiss "caviar" powder. Last glazing run I ended up with maybe 50 of such "caviar" balls in the 2FG range.

Is that what is shown in your avatar pic? The "caviar" balls?

[Brimstone]

That's the ball mill. Red Alder test batch, California Powder Works clone.

The balls are .490 super hard water quenched lead alloy.

[HWooldridge]

That's the ball mill. Red Alder test batch, California Powder Works clone.

The balls are .490 super hard water quenched lead alloy.

Gotcha - thanks for the explanation. I probably could have deduced that if I’d studied it a while but it’s easier to ask…

[HWooldridge]

I have several wild grapevines growing on my place - the vine sizes run from about thick as my wrist down to tendrils. In addition, there are thousands of hackberry trees in this area, in all sizes.

I read the charcoal list off the fireworks sites and the burn rates are similar - has anyone here used either or both and what did you think? Should the bark be removed prior to making charcoal?

[LAGS]

I would always remove any bark before you make charcoal.
Just look at the ashes in a fire pit.
You will see remains of bark from the wood.
But to have more consistent charcoal , take the bark off your wood.

[Vettepilot]

Thank ya'll for all the responses. As mentioned I'm more interested in making the BP just to show I can do it - I don't shoot enough each year to worry about - less than a lb I'm sure. Especially since they moved the city limits to border my property where the shooting range was. Before there was a 40 acre field with trees behind that. Now there is are houses next to the property fence.

IndianJoe, Vettepilot, Hamgunner, and others - thank ya'll for your description of the piston setup, and the link where I can see a photo of the setup. I'll plan to make the pressure stuff. I'll use the hydraulic press that is used for making Damascus and general forging. I'm in the middle of making some knives for Christmas presents now, and the wife is fussing for her CuMai folder I've got started. BP sorta has to take a back burner to all that. BUT - being retired, I do tend to "get around" to playing with lots of projects

I've done some thinking about making my own charcoal, but..... we'll see. I've got an old Duck Oven I can use in the Green Egg grill - what temperature for best charcoal?

Allow me to say this thread has provided me with hours of good reading over the years - Thank you to all folks for the knowledge shared.

Ken H>

Keeping your charcoal cook to 550 degrees seems to be about optimal. By the time my Dutch Oven full of cedar chips reaches that though, it's already done cooking.

Also, best results seem to come when you don't cook until the smoke/fumes stop. Cook until they slow down, and then quit. I've taken to lighting the escaping smoke. When the flame just starts to lower, I stop the cook.

Too much heat, or too long a cook, produces somewhat inferior charcoal.

@Indian Joe: I'm not sure which cedar this is, but I'll try to find out...

Vettepilot

[Linstrum]

Assay your charcoal for its ash content. Each and every batch of charcoal will have a different ash content, the amount of ash in wood is not a uniform constant across nature. Besides that, how much ash is in wood varies depending in what part of the tree or plant the material came from.

Stating the obvious, ash does not burn, so, the ash dilutes the fuel content contained in charcoal. I've found charcoal that was 1/6 ash. With that much ash, the black powder made with it was pretty weak, plus was incredibly dirty.

If you shoot, you have an accurate powder weighing balance, and that's the only piece of precision equipment you need. How to find ash content is a pretty simple procedure.

You will need a steel tin can lid like from a large size soup can, a propane torch, a kitchen stove, and some of your charcoal that has been coarsely powdered. Outdoors, use the propane torch to heat the steel tin can lid red hot to burn off the protective coating, and then scrub and wash the lid to get it clean. Weigh out more or less 50 grains of powdered charcoal, and note its exact weight to a tenth grain. Put the powdered charcoal on the tin can lid and spread it around in an even layer, keeping it away from the edge of the lid. Set the tin can lid and charcoal on a kitchen stove burner at just enough heat so the lid is a dull red heat. The charcoal will ignite and glow red hot, and after a few minutes, carefully sweep the charcoal around with the side of a length of wire, like a straightened large-size paperclip. Keep sweeping the charcoal around every few minutes, being careful not to spill any off the side of the lid. After about twenty minutes, there should be just a light gray ash left. Turn the stove off, and when the lid is cool enough to pick up, brush all of the ash into the powder weighing balance pan and weigh it. As an example, if the charcoal sample originally weighed 47.2 grains, and after burning it off on the stove, the ash weighs 1.8 grains, then 1.8 divided by 47.2 equals 0.0381. Multiplying by 100 gives 3.81% ash. Round-off to 3.8%

The math used to compensate for ash content is straightforward. Using avocado wood charcoal with 3.8% ash as an example, the math steps are as follows:

1. 3.8% ash means there is only 96.2% combustible material, 100% minus 3.8% ash leaves 96.2% combustible material.

2. Convert 96.2% to decimal form that is 0.962

3. Mathematically invert 0.962 by dividing 1 by 0.962 to find out how much more ash-contaminated charcoal to add to the black powder mix so it comes out at the correct amount of combustible material. 1 divided by 0.962 = 1.03950. Round-off to 1.04

4. For black powder using the standard 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal, 10 parts sulfur:
The next step is to multiply the 15 parts charcoal by 1.04 to get 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal. So, the new black powder formula using avocado wood charcoal is 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal, and 10 parts sulfur.

Ignoring rounding-off, the math used gives exact values, they are not approximations.

Compensating for ash below about 2.5% is not worth the bother because other things come into play that affect how accurately the ingredients can actually be weighed, such as moisture content and purity of the potassium nitrate and sulfur. However, there is no harm in compensating for ash content when it is below 2.5% if you care to, I do. The best you can do is make sure your potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal are all dry before weighing them. I am a chemist, and a good part of what I did was pay attention to details when measuring and weighing things.

But one aspect of finding charcoal wood is to find one that has as little ash as possible, since ash interferes with the black powder burning efficiently, plus ash makes hard barrel deposits that are insoluble in water. Depending on the kind of wood, ash usually has calcium salts in it, most often calcium carbonate that is virtually insoluble in water. Limestone is mostly calcium carbonate, as is marble. The worst kind of ash has silicon dioxide in it, which is quartz. It is highly abrasive besides insoluble in water, and forms common window glass when it melts in contact with other components found in ash.

The absolute best woods will produce charcoal with good creosote content when roasted at the right temperature for the right amount of time, with 2.5% or less ash. I seem to recall the lowest ash assay so far was 1.5%, so set your sights on that, but 2.5% to 3% is great. My own cut-off point is no more than 4% ash.

Some of the guys here have been making black powder that performs just as good as commercial, and how they do it has a LOT more to it than the ash content of the charcoal. But ash content does play an important factor that should not be ignored.

[Brimstone]

I was expecting these last few comments to attract the attention of Linstrum as this is right down his alley.

My batch of Spruce assayed at 3.4% ash content. This while loaded with creosote. I should perform an assay on creosote content but I know it's high, my shop stinks of creosote with the char locked in premium grade ziplock bags. Burn tests of the char produces smoke and an eye watering, nose burning scent. I do wonder how much the creosote has offset the carbon and ash content.

It should be wet burning even if a bit dirty compared to my other powder.

Hurricane Ian has me working with no days off. It's gonna be a while before I have time to test this batch as a powder.

[indian joe]

Assay your charcoal for its ash content. Each and every batch of charcoal will have a different ash content, the amount of ash in wood is not a uniform constant across nature. Besides that, how much ash is in wood varies depending in what part of the tree or plant the material came from.

Stating the obvious, ash does not burn, so, the ash dilutes the fuel content contained in charcoal. I've found charcoal that was 1/6 ash. With that much ash, the black powder made with it was pretty weak, plus was incredibly dirty.

If you shoot, you have an accurate powder weighing balance, and that's the only piece of precision equipment you need. How to find ash content is a pretty simple procedure.

You will need a steel tin can lid like from a large size soup can, a propane torch, a kitchen stove, and some of your charcoal that has been coarsely powdered. Outdoors, use the propane torch to heat the steel tin can lid red hot to burn off the protective coating, and then scrub and wash the lid to get it clean. Weigh out more or less 50 grains of powdered charcoal, and note its exact weight to a tenth grain. Put the powdered charcoal on the tin can lid and spread it around in an even layer, keeping it away from the edge of the lid. Set the tin can lid and charcoal on a kitchen stove burner at just enough heat so the lid is a dull red heat. The charcoal will ignite and glow red hot, and after a few minutes, carefully sweep the charcoal around with the side of a length of wire, like a straightened large-size paperclip. Keep sweeping the charcoal around every few minutes, being careful not to spill any off the side of the lid. After about twenty minutes, there should be just a light gray ash left. Turn the stove off, and when the lid is cool enough to pick up, brush all of the ash into the powder weighing balance pan and weigh it. As an example, if the charcoal sample originally weighed 47.2 grains, and after burning it off on the stove, the ash weighs 1.8 grains, then 1.8 divided by 47.2 equals 0.0381. Multiplying by 100 gives 3.81% ash. Round-off to 3.8%

The math used to compensate for ash content is straightforward. Using avocado wood charcoal with 3.8% ash as an example, the math steps are as follows:

1. 3.8% ash means there is only 96.2% combustible material, 100% minus 3.8% ash leaves 96.2% combustible material.

2. Convert 96.2% to decimal form that is 0.962

3. Mathematically invert 0.962 by dividing 1 by 0.962 to find out how much more ash-contaminated charcoal to add to the black powder mix so it comes out at the correct amount of combustible material. 1 divided by 0.962 = 1.03950. Round-off to 1.04

4. For black powder using the standard 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal, 10 parts sulfur:
The next step is to multiply the 15 parts charcoal by 1.04 to get 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal. So, the new black powder formula using avocado wood charcoal is 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15.6 parts of ash-contaminated charcoal, and 10 parts sulfur.

Ignoring rounding-off, the math used gives exact values, they are not approximations.

Compensating for ash below about 2.5% is not worth the bother because other things come into play that affect how accurately the ingredients can actually be weighed, such as moisture content and purity of the potassium nitrate and sulfur. However, there is no harm in compensating for ash content when it is below 2.5% if you care to, I do. The best you can do is make sure your potassium nitrate, sulfur, and charcoal are all dry before weighing them. I am a chemist, and a good part of what I did was pay attention to details when measuring and weighing things.

But one aspect of finding charcoal wood is to find one that has as little ash as possible, since ash interferes with the black powder burning efficiently, plus ash makes hard barrel deposits that are insoluble in water. Depending on the kind of wood, ash usually has calcium salts in it, most often calcium carbonate that is virtually insoluble in water. Limestone is mostly calcium carbonate, as is marble. The worst kind of ash has silicon dioxide in it, which is quartz. It is highly abrasive besides insoluble in water, and forms common window glass when it melts in contact with other components found in ash.

The absolute best woods will produce charcoal with good creosote content when roasted at the right temperature for the right amount of time, with 2.5% or less ash. I seem to recall the lowest ash assay so far was 1.5%, so set your sights on that, but 2.5% to 3% is great. My own cut-off point is no more than 4% ash.

Some of the guys here have been making black powder that performs just as good as commercial, and how they do it has a LOT more to it than the ash content of the charcoal. But ash content does play an important factor that should not be ignored.

couple questions if you dont mind
(I am not a chemist - did enough at UNi to get me by ok as a soil consultant to farmers but that is a narrow field and pretty basic stuff)
So Q1) how much (if any) difference does the way we do our burn (cooler burn, hotter burn, over done, brown instead of black etc) make to ask content % - given the same source of wood?
Q2) would you agree? that the chemistry of the ash make as much difference (maybe more) to barrel fouling characteristics as the actual ash percentage or no?

[Vettepilot]

Nice post, as always LINSTRUM, and thanks for taking the time to make it.

I always enjoy reading your informative posts, and often copy them into my notebook for reference.

Thanx!!

Vettepilot

[HWooldridge]

Nice post, as always LINSTRUM, and thanks for taking the time to make it.

I always enjoy reading your informative posts, and often copy them into my notebook for reference.

Thanx!!

Vettepilot

Amen - God forbid we ever accidentally lose this thread...

[Vettepilot]

Yeah. I worry about that. I have a buttload of internet "Favorites" or "Bookmarks" saved of my reference material for my hobbies. Sometimes, those sites get shut down, and there goes your data!! There's programs that allow you to make a copy of entire websites, but actually doing that usually falls just short of my personal dedication to my data.

It is a bummer though, when you go to look something up, and the source is GONE!

I have so many "Bookmarks" it's often a chore just searching through them! But knowledge and information are a great things...

Vettepilot

[HWooldridge]

Here is a link for common woods: https://forestry.usu.edu/forest-products/wood-heating

Might be helpful for anyone who uses wood for the majority of their heating needs.

Edit: I didn’t read deep enough into this link when I originally put it up, but “ash” is not content but rather a comparison to dry ash wood. The data may still be useful but is not related to ash %.

[KenH]

Keeping your charcoal cook to 550 degrees seems to be about optimal. By the time my Dutch Oven full of cedar chips reaches that though, it's already done cooking.

Also, best results seem to come when you don't cook until the smoke/fumes stop. Cook until they slow down, and then quit. I've taken to lighting the escaping smoke. When the flame just starts to lower, I stop the cook.

Too much heat, or too long a cook, produces somewhat inferior charcoal.

Vettepilot

Thanks for the info - I'd forgot the temp for making charcoal. I ordered a lb of "Eastern Cedar" charcoal powder which seems to be working pretty darn good. I made a batch and jury rigged a setup to make the pucks. Here's a sample of what I got, 2" diameter.

It's real firm, solid, and pretty strong. I dropped it on the floor while taking photo with no damage. I crumbled the pucks and ground thru the pepper grinder (link removed) that has been linked to before...... I forgot, not sure if a link to Amazon is ok or not. Some forums are more helpful to users than others. Anyway, do a search for item # B07VWN5B31 on Amazon and it should pop up.

After grinding the pucks they turn out pretty good. Flash almost like Goex XX powder. VERY close it seems. Later this week I'll load some 45-70 with Goex XX and this last batch of BP and shoot a couple rounds thru the chrono to get a better idea how it compares.

Thank you all for all the help - GREAT Forum.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

That's one nasty looking puck! I'm glad it burns great for you. Your green mix must be really chunky or something. I've never seen such a rough cast.

What is with those white spots? Did you mix your KNO3 well enough?

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, there's something really wrong with that puck, sorry to say. Your meal should be finer than talcom powder when it's been milled properly, and the surface of your pressed pucks should be uniform in color and smooth as ceramic or glass on the surface.

That puck resembles granulated powder that's been pressed, plus it's not evenly colored. Something's real wrong here. Don't load up very many shells...

Vettepilot