My homemade black powder

[Thundermaker]

Quick question. Is a 12 ton press sufficient for corning, or should I get a 20 ton?

[Vettepilot]

A 12 ton should be fine, but unless it's free or you have one alreay, I would get the 20. Always over-buy to allow for the Chineseum syndrome...

Vettepilot

[indian joe]

A 12 ton should be fine, but unless it's free or you have one alreay, I would get the 20. Always over-buy to allow for the Chineseum syndrome...

Vettepilot

yeah they dont always tell the truth. I bought a 75cc chainsaw last week, advertised as 75cc all over the net, but the crafty little dudes that made it clever enough to NOT put that on the box (or the saw or in the manual) - its really a 52 cc or 58 cc if you get lucky. I knew this already, the thing fired on the first pull and ran on the second pull of the rope, its got easy start, runs good, cuts good, came with earmuffs, gloves, safety glasses, toolkit, cost $135 delivered in my mailbox (under $100 your money) kinda hard to complain even though its a scam

[brian1]

The Chinese seem to operate under the principle that the "first liar doesn't stand a chance", as each company makes ever more outlandish spec and performance claims about their product. Like 25,000 lumen flashlights.

On the Chinese presses, here's what I know. I have a 30 ton from Grizzly (now discontinued). I am doing some serious brass reforming work where I need to run the cases through a hydraulic press. Even though I have the Chinese 30-ton, I just bought a Dake 10 ton benchtop press. I bought it because the Grizzly (and ALL of those presses that use a bottle jack and a pair of return springs), is so sloppy, there's no way you can get straight, even pressure on anything. They all work on the principle of the bottle jack pushing down a deck that flops all around the frame. The bottom post that does the pushing isn't even slightly machined even or square to the pressing force. The HF ones use metal tabs around the uprights, so I guess you could put Delrin plates in there to eat up the slop, then machine the pressing post so its surface is square. The Grizzly uses metal tubes inside larger tubes, so I couldn't eliminate the slop, so I bought a much better one that also tells me how much pressure I am making. When I was trying to make BP, I had a lot of problems with my pressing piston binding on the cylinder walls. I suspect it's because the pressure from the press was not straight down.

The Dake is made in China, too, but at least it's designed and backed by an old American company. There is no slop in any of it, and I get very precise, even presses from it, with nothing flopping around.

[Vettepilot]

I was replacing some important bearings a while back, and wanted to buy good ones. I was determined to buy an American well known brand. I was astonished to find that they basically are ALL made in China now! The only difference is that, according to my studies, the "name brand" companies run their own quality control of what the Chinese factories produce for them.

A very sad, and disturbing state of affairs. Our "enemies" the sole producer of critical supplies???

Vettepilot

[trooperdan]

I was replacing some important bearings a while back, and wanted to buy good ones. I was determined to buy an American well known brand. I was astonished to find that they basically are ALL made in China now! The only difference is that, according to my studies, the "name brand" companies run their own quality control of what the Chinese factories produce for them.

A very sad, and disturbing state of affairs. Our "enemies" the sole producer of critical supplies???

Vettepilot

A truly disturbing fact of life... the Chinese really "own" us already.

[brian1]

I was replacing some important bearings a while back, and wanted to buy good ones. I was determined to buy an American well known brand. I was astonished to find that they basically are ALL made in China now! The only difference is that, according to my studies, the "name brand" companies run their own quality control of what the Chinese factories produce for them.

A very sad, and disturbing state of affairs. Our "enemies" the sole producer of critical supplies???

Vettepilot

Absolutely right. And the bearings market is just a tiny tip of the iceberg. It's insanity.

[HamGunner]

Around 45 years ago in the Army, my area of specialty was Military Intelligence. We were in a Cold War with Russia and much effort and manpower was utilized in that direction. My area of study and involvement though was with the Middle East, which was also a hot item for us to keep updated on and I got a good look at that area of the world, until I got new orders and an assignment in South Korea. I switched directions and of course North Korea became my area of concern. But throughout my time in the Army, most of the Old Timers in intelligence said that China was what we really should be worried about. Some even said that our great grandchildren might have a need to learn to speak Chinese.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

If you buy a new bottle, buy some oil to go with it. Fill it and purge it of air. None of the bottles I bought had the right amount of oil in them and all had lots of air.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, and that's hydraulic "oil", not motor oil. Motor oil will usually destroy hydraulic seals. ATF can be substituted for hydraulic fluid.

Vettepilot

[ChrisPer]

Quick question. Is a 12 ton press sufficient for corning, or should I get a 20 ton?

It impacts what die you will choose. I made 50mm/2" dia dies. I use a nominally 8 ton jack in a homemade press. I did the sums on lever length and ram diameters and used a luggage scale to see how much pull-down I was putting on the lever, and I estimate I put 3500 psi on the pucks at the point the jack groaned and refused. The literature seems to suggest 2500psi is enough, so with a genuine 20 tonne press you should be able to use a 3" diameter puck die and get all the pressure you need. Broader pucks, faster production.

[Vettepilot]

Yes.

Example:

2700 to 3500 psi required for compression.
Die size = 3"
Die/product area = (1.5" x 1.5") x 3.14 = 7.065 square inches
7.065 x 3500 psi = pressure required = 24,727 psi
24,727 ÷ 2000 = 12.36 tons
Go with 20 ton jack for margin of safety.

A 2.5 inch die would likely be ok with a 12 ton setup. Figured the same way, required tonnage would be 8.59. But I would still go with the 20 ton jack for durability, and to allow for any future work/projects that might require more force.

Vettepilot

[ChrisPer]

We have had storms here, so I went to the lakes to look for deadfall branches of willow.
Picked upthe usual long-dead little finger to wrist size pieces, AND a fallen yard of main branch that was rotten. Someone has mentioned that rotten wood gives good fast charcoal; well this stuff was light like balsa, despite being soaked by the storm rain.
If this is hotter it might help get the energy up to the levels of 19th century cartridge powder!

[Vettepilot]

QUOTE: "If this is hotter it might help get the energy up to the levels of 19th century cartridge powder!"

Well, you see, "global warming" makes the trees less powerful than they were 100+ years ago...

There! Now I can be a Democrat! (UUGGHH...)

Note by way of explanation: (Global warming is a natural cycle/process that may or may not be aggravated by us. It cannot be stopped by confiscating guns nor making gas $5.00+ dollars a gallon.)

;~)

Vettepilot

[Bmi48219]

I know absolutely nothing about making black powder so I have to ask:
Would super fine activated charcoal be any good ? This stuff is almost like flour.

[DoubleBuck]

Bmi48219;
Activated charcoal is super heated and is microscopically 'blown up' to increase it's surface area. It makes great filtering media, etc, but all the good volatiles are cooked out of it and it makes very poor powder, at best.
Good charcoal will be cooked at lower temperatures and retain a majority of the volatiles. Many people have tried to use activated, or even commercial BBQ charcoal. They just don't make good powder. It will burn, but not hot nor fast.

[Bmi48219]

Bmi48219;….. It will burn, but not hot nor fast.

thanks!

[ChrisPer]

I know absolutely nothing about making black powder so I have to ask:
Would super fine activated charcoal be any good ? This stuff is almost like flour.

There are a lot of possible variations in powder-making that us shooters are not interested in because they don't give good powder for shooters. The article that got me started was from the amateur pyrotechnics world, where lift in mortars is a performance indicator; and burst charges in star-shells, and coloured stars and rocket motors and fusees all have different performance demands. You can bet that some have used that activated product, but haven't seen it mentioned as a success.

https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how...d-black-powder
http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fire...oal_tests.html


I want instead high velocity to match the best commercial powder, high density to match cartridge loadings, very small fouling for target competitions that might see forty to sixty shots in a day, and repeatability so when a make the next batch it wont all need to be re-learned.

[almar]

There are a lot of possible variations in powder-making that us shooters are not interested in because they don't give good powder for shooters. The article that got me started was from the amateur pyrotechnics world, where lift in mortars is a performance indicator; and burst charges in star-shells, and coloured stars and rocket motors and fusees all have different performance demands. You can bet that some have used that activated product, but haven't seen it mentioned as a success.

https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how...d-black-powder
http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fire...oal_tests.html


I want instead high velocity to match the best commercial powder, high density to match cartridge loadings, very small fouling for target competitions that might see forty to sixty shots in a day, and repeatability so when a make the next batch it wont all need to be re-learned.

I've repeated this so many times but i guess that people will just end up doing what they feel like doing in the end. Lower density will give you better burn, higher velocity and less fouling. I tested this thoroughly and so did Waltham abbey, its right there in their report. Higher density will give you only one thing as a plus, better grain strength. A better grain strength will be better for transporting where a lower density powder will become dusty after a lot of shaking about. Accuracy is key so whatever you decide to settle on for density make sure its the same every time. If you make your powder well from A to Z with good ingredients and technique the same volume of lower density powder should give you better results than commercial powder every time. If it doesn't, you messed up somewhere so go back and study your data.

[HWooldridge]

Perhaps the major distinction that newbs (and maybe even some with experience) should recognize is the basic powder reactions between muzzleloaders/cap-and ball, and cartridge loads. As you point out, the compression in a brass case is much higher than what can be achieved in a loose powder load, so any powder with a decent burn rate works relatively well. Subsequently, the logical conclusion for deciding for or against the extra corning operation is the final end use. If someone shoots a muzzleloader, then corning is probably the best choice for premium results.

Personally, I no longer own any muzzleloaders so most any decent BP I can get my hands on will work in my 44-40.