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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #5181
    Boolit Master
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    Could you not take that well incorporated dust, moisten it and then screen it? Perhaps not good for the comparison testing but it might make good powder.

  2. #5182
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    Thanks Almar. That's what I'm aiming for. And, why I was confused when the 1.81 puck dusted out. I was pretty sure it was a lack of moisture. I was cautious on the water, because last night, when I was weighing the batches, it was 13° and 90% humidity and today when pressing, it was 20° and 85% humidity. But, when I added water, I didn't think the powder reacted the way I was used to it doing. I'll retool and see what happens. Thanks.
    centigrade?? I don't know about low temperature like that and how it affects pressing. maybe that's why some used isopropyl alcohol instead of water. Once it gets under 50 or so, i need a good reason to go outside lol. I'm kidding of course. But freezing weather is probably not helping with the process.
    Last edited by almar; 01-03-2022 at 10:24 AM.
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  3. #5183
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    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    centigrade?? I don't know about low temperature like that and how it affects pressing. maybe that's why some used isopropyl alcohol instead of water. Once it gets under 50 or so, i need a good reason to go outside lol. I'm kidding of course. But freezing weather is probably not helping with the process.
    No, Fahrenheit, but it came back around, on the second try. And I brought the die in the house and warmed it up, too. I tried 4% on one, and it had just a hair too much, so cut it back to 3% and it did near perfect. I saw a few minutes ago, it was 16° F. on my porch and 85% humidity. No wind, or it would be really chilly. I'm on the 4th and 5th batches right now.
    Cosmic Charlie;
    Yes, I just milled the dense powder back down, to dust, and re wetted it, and repressed it. I think it came out fine, the second time. I'm getting really close on the 1.6 density. The grains are still not as hard as I'm used to, but like AlMar, I'm going to go with larger grain size, than I've been using, as well. I've been using around the industry standard of 1.7 grams per CC density. But, we're trying the Waltham Abbey (England) late 1800's recipe, for the Enfield, which they wound up using 1.5-1.6 density powder which is fast burning, but larger grains, to get full barrel push and higher bullet speeds. AlMar has been tearing it up, and am trying to keep up. haha

  4. #5184
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    Im puzzled though. It should be pretty good strong grains at 1.6.
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  5. #5185
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    AlMar;
    I'll know more as soon as I screen them. They may be just fine.

  6. #5186
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    We truly owe a great debt of gratitude to those of you who are able and who press onward!![/QUOTE]

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    Bud, we wouldn't be where we are, save the posts you've made and the info you've shared! Everybody's a spoke in the wheel. That may be a song. Not sure. If not, it should be.

  7. #5187
    Boolit Bub henryinpanama's Avatar
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    Someone, don't remember who, said some ceramic media can spark. I bought 3 pounds of ceramic tumbling media. How, besides milling some powder with it and praying for no explosion can I determine if this stuff will spark?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1
    Last edited by henryinpanama; 01-03-2022 at 09:25 PM. Reason: correct spelling
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  8. #5188
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    henryinpanama;
    Here's a link you may or may not find useful https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/fir...-milling-media
    There's been so much written on Ball Mill Safety and Black Powder, that it is probably the biggest threat, to making homemade. Pick a media, and somebody has written a story of how that media was responsible, in some way, for the mishap. In the grand scheme of things, ceramics are very safe. I don't know about depleted Uranium, or that kind of ceramics, but your basic mill media is no more or less than spark plug ceramic, which has been used as a spark insulator, for over a hundred years. With 80 thousand volts of spark, it must be pretty high resistance. Not saying to use what you have, or what not to use. I myself would worry more about the difference in mill efficiency versus lead, which is very much proven in Gunpowder milling, but is also known to wear, contaminating your powder, is hazardous to your health, and is a known carcinogen in California. haha
    Seriously, if you have to know, I would chase down the manufacturer of your media and contact them. I guarantee you they have been asked the question before.

  9. #5189
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    AlMar;
    I just broke up the first two pucks, again, after repressing them. They came out 1.571 and 1.618. The grains were much mo betta, this time. They were just too dry the first time.

  10. #5190
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    It's hard to pack any sort of a very dry powder. It's been said by experts that it's the sulphur that actually plasticizes and glues the powder together when compressed. I tend to believe this, because I think that's what holds the pucks, and subsequent powder granules together when fully dry. However, some moisture is necessary during compression to make it all happen. It's sort of a "fluid" thing. The moisture allows a sort of a homogenous flow and transfer of the pressure that doesn't occur with dry powder particles pushing against one another. Once that mass has that homogenous compression, the sulphur plasticizes and "glues" it all together. Reportedly this occurs at 2700 to 3500 psi when conditions are right. (Enough moisture.)

    Well, I don't know if that came across well or understandable, but I tried...

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  11. #5191
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    That is true, VP. I don't remember the source (it could have been a BP paper from Aberdeen proving grounds), but they did some lab tests showing that compressing meal to a certain density is dependent on both moisture and pressure. Higher pressure can be used with lower moisture to reach X density and vice versa. That's why I had been hydrating my meal to the point of just barely being short of squeezing water out of it when pressed; I wanted to utilize a lower pressure on my press and not wreck it again haha

  12. #5192
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryinpanama View Post
    Someone, don't remember who, said some ceramic media can spark. I bought 3 pounds of ceramic tumbling media. How, besides milling some powder with it and praying for no explosion can I determine if this stuff will spark?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1
    It's possible the link that DB has provided is the same one I have read, but there was an explosion of a fireworkers mill that was using ceramic media, but he was also using a huge mill. The drop distance of the media was enough that I guess the media had enough energy to create a spark. Now, if you happen to have some sort of contaminant in your charcoal, like dirt or some type of ferrous material, it's more likely you could get an ignition. It's hard to say if the media itself caused the spark or if it was a contaminant.

    Point being, if you're using a small HF Mill and ceramic media and your wood is clean prior to charring it, I wouldn't worry about using it. Then again, I wouldn't worry about it if anyway if the mill was far away from people, buildings, and had a remote start stop.

  13. #5193
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    I sometimes wonder how things came about; how they got invented. A person can imagine ancient chemists, and particularly alchemists mixing various things together and treating them to various processes experimenting, and coming up with useful substances, intentionally or not.

    But who came up with the idea, "Hey, let's put this stuff under a ton (or more) of pressure and see what happens."

    I read of how nitrocellulose got "invented". Rather humorous that one...

    ;~)

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  14. #5194
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    Thanks to DoubleBuck and HighUintas. I guess it's time to move my HF tumbler out of the garage.
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  15. #5195
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    Henry;
    Don't let me sway you! haha I have my HF double drum in my well house. Most of my powder stuff is in there. With a radio. The press and all the other stuff is pretty much in the shop, where I do my molding. Tonight, my little well house was pretty chilly, screen grading powder and using the kitchen table for a weigh station. I have a heater in there, but didn't plug it in.
    I got my six small batches of new 'brown' Black Willow powder sorted and graded out. They say this weekend I may be able to have fun shooting, so hopefully they are right.
    Good luck with your powder making! If I had them, I would not be one bit afraid to use what you have. In the garage. Where the radio is.

  16. #5196
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    I'm looking forward to hearing about your testing results, DB!

    I ordered some ceramic fiber insulation a couple of days ago. So hopefully I'll be able to get some charcoal made up Soon with a bit more temp control than before. I've got some tree of heaven all debarked, split, and ready to go!

    Something in that Waltham Abbey BP book I thought was interesting is that they mention harvesting the wood in the spring is only to make the debarking process much easier and that wood harvested any other time of the year will make just as high quality BP. I had been thinking of waiting until early spring to cut more wood off my Paulownia tree, but I guess I won't now.

  17. #5197
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    HighUintas;
    My best powder was made from wood cut in the Spring, but I don't know if it makes a bit of difference or not. I have a lot of wood stored, cut in all times of the year, and not marked as to when. I'm planning to wait until mid-late February which is generally the start of Spring, here, and cut some Sassafras for us. VettePilot wants some and I want to get some select branches cut and debarked. I plan to dig some roots too, as a couple of people have asked me for some.
    I can see where the sugars are high in the Spring, as the sap rises, and debarking is generally easier then, but I'm thinking it would be pretty technical to make comparative tests, to prove if it is better or not. A guy would nearly need the same tree, limbs and sizes, and all the variables to be accounted for. I'll try it but don't place much faith in it.
    Did you ever make any of the Tree of Heaven Powder, or did you conclude what you thought was it, was really it?
    It has been up to record setting warm here, November through December. But, when it decided to get cold, it is slamming us pretty good. The high here today is supposed to be 22 and the wind is blowing. Saturday is supposed to be 50°, but, I'm getting low on firewood, and at some point, over the weekend, I need to gather some up, and fire up my splitter. I'm hoping to make the tests this weekend, but may have to bundle up and just do whenever I can. I am not a winter person, at all. Winter is for hibernating and getting fat, by the wood stove.
    Last edited by DoubleBuck; 01-06-2022 at 05:21 PM.

  18. #5198
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    HighUintas;
    My best powder was made from wood cut in the Spring, but I don't know if it makes a bit of difference or not. I have a lot of wood stored, cut in all times of the year, and not marked as to when. I'm planning to wait until mid-late February which is generally the start of Spring, here, and cut some Sassafras for us. VettePilot wants some and I want to get some select branches cut and debarked. I plan to dig some roots too, as a couple of people have asked me for some.
    I can see where the sugars are high in the Spring, as the sap rises, and debarking is generally easier then, but I'm thinking it would be pretty technical to make comparative tests, to prove if it is better or not. A guy would nearly need the same tree, limbs and sizes, and all the variables to be accounted for. I'll try it but don't place much faith in it.
    Did you ever make any of the Tree of Heaven Powder, or did you conclude what you thought was it, was really it?
    It has been up to record setting warm here, November through December. But, when it decided to get cold, it is slamming us pretty good. The high here today is supposed to be 22 and the wind is blowing. Saturday is supposed to be 50°, but, I'm getting low on firewood, and at some point, over the weekend, I need to gather some up, and fire up my splitter. I'm hoping to make the tests this weekend, but may have to bundle up and just do whenever I can. I am not a winter person, at all. Winter is for hibernating and getting fat, by the wood stove.
    DB, I know what you mean. Winter makes me want to hibernate, but I do really enjoy getting out in the snow in the mountains. I'll be taking my skis and 17hmr out to the uintas this weekend for some biathlon style exercise and shooting practice!

    The tree of heaven I harvested over the summer is definitely tree of heaven. I just never got around to charring it. I just debarked, split it, dried it, and stored it in a 1 gal pickle jar. After I get my charring process uniformed, I'll test to see how it stacks up to my Paulownia. The thing that seems to make a difference in charcoal quality is how fast the wood grows. Even though these are fast growing trees, I don't think they grow as quickly here as they would elsewhere due to the arid climate here.

    I've been watching videos on building flintlocks... I think I might have to start on one this year. I'd love to have a ML to make my loading process easier/faster. Loading BP into cartridges is much slower than smokeless loading I've done. That and I just can't get my 1886 to quit leading in the barrel. So it's a chore loading 20 every week, cleaning the bore well, and making enough powder for 20 a week. Having a ML shooting patched balls would save me a lot of time. And I'd have a pretty slick gun if I can manage to build one!

  19. #5199
    Boolit Man mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    I am not a winter person, at all. Winter is for hibernating and getting fat, by the wood stove.
    I could have written that as I'm the same way. I'd been getting out shooting 3 or 4 times a week as the weather stayed pretty good all through December but now it seems winter has hit. I can't enjoy my time at the range if it's cold and windy and there's no point in going if I'm not going to enjoy it. We're sure to get a few good days over the winter when I'll go but it won't be anything near as often as I'd like. So for the next 8 to 10 weeks I'll spend more time in my shop making powder and casting balls. I should be in really good supply by spring.

    I'm also going to need to make some more charcoal and I'm trying to find the best way. I've been using the cedar fence pickets and I have no complaints with how that wood works, but I am experimenting a bit on the best way to char it. At first I was using a one gallon paint can set in round charcoal grill with a wood fire surrounding it. I piled the wood up against the sides of the can and got good results. But rather than having to build a wood fire I thought it would be easier to use a propane gas ring so I bought one. The first time I used that method the wood in the bottom 2/3 of the can charred well but the top 1/3 didn't char enough, it was still more wood than charcoal. So I thought maybe if I put the can on the ring tilted at about 45* and rotated it 1/4 turn every 15 minutes that would get enough heat to the top, but it didn't. The top of the sticks still didn't char enough.

    I think I read here somewhere in this massive thread that someone had placed a bucket upside down over their paint can to keep the heat in so that's my next experiment. I did find a metal bucket at Tractor Supply that should work after some searching. Or course most buckets today are plastic and when I did find a metal one the way they list the dimensions often made no sense. How can a cylindrical bucket have length x width x height? I would expect diameter (top and bottom as they are usually different) and depth but that's not how they list them. They do give the capacity but that doesn't mean a 3 gallon bucket will fit over my 1 gallon paint can with enough space overhead as it could be wide but not tall enough. Ordering online seems out as I want to hold it in my hands and see if it looks like the right size.

    I've been preparing for the cold weather for a while now. My shop only had 120 volt circuits in it so I used to heat it in the winter using a diesel torpedo heater. I instantly figured out that wouldn't work when I'm making powder, so over the summer I ran a 240 volt circuit and installed an electric overhead heater in the shop. That does a good job of keeping it warm enough for me to putter around with my powder and lead projects. I'm getting stocked up to spend lots of time there this winter. I got 60 lbs of lead via USPS the other day and don't think my mailman was too happy about it.

  20. #5200
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    Same here, its 53 deg right now and 47 this morning, way to cold to be outside shooting.

    Just messing around, but its upside down here, i look forward to the winters because the summers are absolutely brutal. You break a sweat just walking to the workshop. The winters up north were brutal, you sometimes questioned your ability to get back from work in the white out blizzards. It got so cold sometimes that you got brain freeze by just smiling.
    Last edited by almar; 01-07-2022 at 02:12 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check