My homemade black powder

[DoubleBuck]

Almar;
Man, I'm sorry to hear the Sassafras is messing with you. One question. The bottom of the box had the driest and longest dead wood in it. I was wondering if you had used it first, or if you mixed it up? The reason I ask is all the wood I've made powder out of until this last Black Willow, I've always cooked green. It seemed like I could control it better, the way I cook it. I know there have been a few conversations on here about dry or green. It may not make a hill of beans difference, in the finished product.
I was really hoping that it would do you better, being it has been my fastest pucked and screened powder. But, I'm also shooting a .58 caliber rifle with a 40" barrel. I have no idea if that would be a variable of vast difference, or not. I hope you can make it at least do as well as your other powders. Keep us informed and good luck!

[almar]

Dont worry doublebuck, i just need to figure it out for this charcoal. If you can judge a powder by how the milled powder burns this one should do alot better when i test it. And this is my first try at it. I am very happy to have the chance to work with it. I used one that was on top. The ash weight was the lowest i ever seen.

[DoubleBuck]

Yes, and that sounds very promising. I had never figured ash content until a few weeks ago, per se. I had always did a test burn, to see how fast and how dirty the powder was. Whether accurate or not, by keeping records on every powder I tested, I've been able to get a good idea, without actually knowing ash content on the charcoal, but will be using that, from now on. I'm very much hoping you gain positive results from it.

[DoubleBuck]

VettePilot;
I haven't forgot you. We've had about 3-1/2" of rain over the last four days and it hasn't let up yet. I'll get with you as soon as I can get out and get it done.

[ChrisPer]

I just hunted through the thread to find this. Worth revisiting!
Linstrum's post on assaying ash content of charcoal

[almar]

Ok! So I fired 2 shots of the 75-15-10 sassfrass powder and got 862 FPS (duplicates), it was at a density of 1.60 g/cc. Very good stuff at this charge! 33.2 fps/gr because a full 30 gr volume charge weighed only 26 grains.

A full 30 grain by WEIGHT charge though gave me less efficiency at about 908 fps or 30.2 fps/gr weight. This is right at swiss powder efficiency and velocity at that weight of charge but does not compare to the willow powder I tested and tuned thoroughly. I think this charcoal is very promising but seems to work best with 75-15-10 than with higher Saltpeter ratios. But a lot can be done to change this with changing the cook time and temperature maybe. Maybe the dry wood would also give different results.

[DoubleBuck]

Almar;
Glad you got it doing better!
I was thinking about one more thing, concerning the way I made my charcoal, and the wood I sent you. This too, has been discussed at different points on the forum, but all the wood I have made charcoal out of has been close to a maximum of one inch in diameter. Some of the pieces I sent you, were approaching 3 inches, I think. However, if it was comparable to the diameter of the Willow you used, then, it shouldn't make that much difference, I would think. And the diameter may not make that much difference, in the end results, anyway. Just scratching my head on a couple of things. I'm glad you got improvement out of it and hope it continues to get better for you. Maybe there's a sweet spot and you'll find it. There are so many different variables, it seems to be nearly impossible to cover all the bases, every time. Who's on first, right? haha

[mmb617]

I've read this entire thread and have a question I didn't see answered. Do any of you use a power sifter to screen your powder? I'm talking about something like this:


https://www.amazon.com/VBENLEM-Autom...597715&sr=8-12


I have bought a real nice set of screens but you need to do a lot of shaking to get all the fines sifted out. I'd like to automate that process but don't want to spend $200 or so to do it. I'd like to rig up something out of stuff I already have on hand or can buy cheap. All I really need is some type of vibrating table to set the screen stack on. I'm thinking I can use an old sawzall I have to power it since it has a variable speed control, but haven't worked out all the details. Maybe there's an easier way I've overlooked. Any ideas?

[Nobade]

I've read this entire thread and have a question I didn't see answered. Do any of you use a power sifter to screen your powder? I'm talking about something like this:


https://www.amazon.com/VBENLEM-Autom...597715&sr=8-12


I have bought a real nice set of screens but you need to do a lot of shaking to get all the fines sifted out. I'd like to automate that process but don't want to spend $200 or so to do it. I'd like to rig up something out of stuff I already have on hand or can buy cheap. All I really need is some type of vibrating table to set the screen stack on. I'm thinking I can use an old sawzall I have to power it since it has a variable speed control, but haven't worked out all the details. Maybe there's an easier way I've overlooked. Any ideas?

I try to keep completed powder, and especially really fine airfloat, away from electric motors. In my own case I shake the screens then use a paint brush to stir it around and get more dust out. If you want it really clean you can tumble the finished powder by itself then screen it again and it will be mostly without dust.

[almar]

The excellent idea of pressing thin but unconfined is covered in a historic arms blog (will find the link later) that has a series of detailed descriptions of C19 powder manufacture.
The factory described put thin layers of dampened powder between large copper plates, stacked up to a foot-thick deck, then put in a press.
The problem for us is that you need a VERY big press. I need 5 tons to get 3500psi for a 2-inch diameter die, checking my calcs a foot-square die calls for 150 tonnes. And it has to be delivered evenly over a large area - the upper and lower press plates would need a half-tonne of cast iron.
Just between you and me, I can't lift that even after a steak dinner!
The likely solution is as the Swiss do, a roller. The meal is still between plates, but the roller only needs to deliver a tenth the pressure. HOWEVER, you still need the press time - which needs power feed through the rollers at a very slow rate.

###
Update: The link to the pressing description
###

I just got around to reading that article. It seems that they also gauged the density with the how far the piston went into the die. And they mention how important it was to get the right pressure for powder combustion rates.

[DoubleBuck]

I've read this entire thread and have a question I didn't see answered. Do any of you use a power sifter to screen your powder? I'm talking about something like this:


https://www.amazon.com/VBENLEM-Autom...597715&sr=8-12


I have bought a real nice set of screens but you need to do a lot of shaking to get all the fines sifted out. I'd like to automate that process but don't want to spend $200 or so to do it. I'd like to rig up something out of stuff I already have on hand or can buy cheap. All I really need is some type of vibrating table to set the screen stack on. I'm thinking I can use an old sawzall I have to power it since it has a variable speed control, but haven't worked out all the details. Maybe there's an easier way I've overlooked. Any ideas?

MMB617;
As others have mentioned, you want to make sure dust can't get to your electric motor, but if you can do that, a vibrator out of a recliner, or to buy one that is suitable, would work very well. I have one with a handle on it, which could be sealed in a plastic bag, which would vibrate a set of screens all day long. It's heavy duty, with speed adjustments and attachments. With the right set up, one could even place the vibrator over here and attach the screens over there, on an 'arm' of steel, aluminum, or wood. That is actually a good idea you have, in my opinion.

[indian joe]

I try to keep completed powder, and especially really fine airfloat, away from electric motors. In my own case I shake the screens then use a paint brush to stir it around and get more dust out. If you want it really clean you can tumble the finished powder by itself then screen it again and it will be mostly without dust.

agree !! the idea of that motorised gadget makes me extremely nervous
busting pucks can be hard work but I never thought screening was much trouble.
number one trick I reckon - dont overload your screen set !!!! - little bit at the time makes it easy. no matter what you are screening too much depth of material on the screen makes hard work and a second rate job of it. my primary screen is 16 mesh window screen 15inches x 12 inch
in the hardware store a few days back and I see we can buy "ultrafine" bug mesh now - looks about 24 mesh would be a perfect FF/FFF screen - make a 2x1 pine frame for these, ya got a good big screen, and cheap.

[indian joe]

MMB617;
As others have mentioned, you want to make sure dust can't get to your electric motor, but if you can do that, a vibrator out of a recliner, or to buy one that is suitable, would work very well. I have one with a handle on it, which could be sealed in a plastic bag, which would vibrate a set of screens all day long. It's heavy duty, with speed adjustments and attachments. With the right set up, one could even place the vibrator over here and attach the screens over there, on an 'arm' of steel, aluminum, or wood. That is actually a good idea you have, in my opinion.

sorry boys I just cant see the point of this - spend the dollars on bigger manual screens - dont have to be fancy - just have to work.

[ChrisPer]

I try to keep completed powder, and especially really fine airfloat, away from electric motors. In my own case I shake the screens then use a paint brush to stir it around and get more dust out. If you want it really clean you can tumble the finished powder by itself then screen it again and it will be mostly without dust.

Yes to airborne dust and electric motors being best kept separate.
I used the paint brush to move the powder on my screens last batch and it really lifted the quality, and was a lot easier than more hand shaking. I am going to get a bigger and better paintbrush, the cheapo 2" brush was so good.
I agree though, hand shaking is hard work to do well. Maybe I will also try putting the deck of screens on castors so they can be supported on the table while shaking, and stay level too.

[DoubleBuck]

sorry boys I just cant see the point of this - spend the dollars on bigger manual screens - dont have to be fancy - just have to work.

I have a good set of screens and don't mind shaking them by hand. All's I'm saying is if a guy wants to build a shaker, get after it. If you can do it safely and it makes you happy, I'm in. I'm not telling anyone to do it, or not to do it.

[mmb617]

I'm just brainstorming at this point. I have just acquired a very good set of stainless steel screens to replace my homemade wood frame ones, but the bottom pan and lid haven't arrived yet so final testing has to wait. I'm thinking that with the screen set nesting tight into each other and with a lid over the top there should be almost no airborne dust generated. I've come across this video that has me thinking the idea presented in it could work if downsized as I'm not processing 5 gallon buckets at a time. I like the fact that the jigsaw isn't actually attached in any way thus the tool isn't tied up permanently. Thinking about how much vibration is transmitted to my hands when using a jigsaw makes me think it would be sufficient for the job.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKU7...ist=WL&index=5

[HamGunner]

I learned right off that screening needs to be done outdoors, especially charcoal. My first small batch of screening charcoal, I had it all over me as well as my reloading room. Ultra fine charcoal dust on everything and it can escape out of the tiniest cracks or holes and air float all over.

Also, and certainly a must, is to wear a face mask especially while screening. It can not be good for one's sinuses to be breathing charcoal or gunpowder dust. Just as important as fire and spark safety, we should not be breathing this stuff. If your nose blows out black junk, you needed a mask.

I use about one foot square screens that I sandwiched between wooden frames. A small dowel at the corners allows the screens to stack and fit together so that they stay in place while shaking. And like Indian Joe stated, I found that I should not get in a hurry and overload the screens if I wanted good results. I use large commercial sized baking/cookie sheets to catch the fines on the bottom. The sheets also work well for spreading the granulated powder out for drying in the sun when possible.

[maillemaker]

I've basically concluded that the entire operation needs to be done outdoors. Every step of the process will generate fine dust of whatever ingredient you are working with. And so you will either end up with green meal dust through the deposits of the separate ingredients, or you'll end up with green meal dust from working with the green meal. It's best to work outdoors where everything washes away with the next rain.

[ChrisPer]

I started outdoors, but the weather has been foul and my skills improving. I do it undercover.

[Vettepilot]

@Almar:

A question about achieving a desired density. So, I understand that you are weighing your powder to be pressed. Then you have a mark on your pressing die that corresponds to the volume the compressed powder needs to be to achieve your target density. However, how are you accounting for the weight of the water you had added??

Regarding mixing the water thoroughly into the green meal, there's two considerations; the amount of water, and getting it thoroughly mixed. I'm wondering about how to set up something with a controlled atmosphere that one could place the green meal powder into overnight, allowing it to become properly moist. It might be a bit difficult. It would need to be sealed, and temperature and humidity controlled. Just a passing thought... probably not worth the bother outside of a lab.

Another idea. I'm considering using a vacuum chamber to dry the powder. Anyone here have any experience with vacuum drying?

Vettepilot