My homemade black powder

[almar]

That's great news HamGunner! I agree with you that it is long process especially when you have to watch it all the time. Ash content logically should be as low as possible, at least it makes sense to me. The batch i made with the lowest content (0.52gr/30gr) seemed to be right at the cross over between uncharred wood and charcoal, the batch i made after that was all soft but had a significantly higher ash content (0.7gr/30gr) and a bit darker. It gets to be a challenge to know when to call it good and stop the cook. Where you put the thermometer, how you stack the wood, what size the pieces are, these are all things that change the results and i find it difficult to be precisely consistent batch after batch. Regardless, congrats i'm sure it will improve things.

[almar]

I think i found this link here at some point but it pertains directly to the qualities of charcoal in BP.

https://cdn.hackaday.io/files/896338...roceedings.pdf

[DoubleBuck]

Over the weekend I shot our State Championships with P-H .577 2band rifle, Pedersoli Tryon .54 caplock and Pedersoli Mortimer .54 flint rifle.
I burned 1.4 kg about 3 lbs of powder, almost all my own make of FF and FFF. I used Swiss for prime at first, but when that vial was empty I used my own FFFF and it was just as fast.
My scores are back in the pack but I shot every match so I won silver medals for Aggregates, and the range officer was watching me in the 100m 3 Position Class 3 (shot with the .577) and my last shot standing he saw go a 10X. Nice to be noticed!

ChrisPer, that is amazingly good, I would say! Congratulations to you!

[Vettepilot]

Well, my next batch of charcoal is going to be red cedar wood chips, just because I have a big bag of them and I've never tried it before. Gonna cook it in my cast iron dutch oven rig on the gas turkey fryer.

Any specific hints from you guys on cooking chips??

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Speaking of "chips", made me wonder if anyone ever tried "buffalo chips"? Would be a little hard to find now. But all of Arizona is open range, and we've got LOTS of cow chips. ("Poop" for the easterners here...)

Oh boy... now it will be what the cows ate, and how it affects velocity!!

"Ok hun, I'll be out back cooking poop, eerrr, making charcoal if ya need me..."

;~)

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

Guys, I have a question.
I re-read Linstrum's posts and have been thinking about the ash content, and the deal that Almar posted on the Swiss powder manufacturing techniques and leaving creosote in the charcoal, etc. The Swiss powder is perceived to leave more damp, and thus more removeable fowling, because of the creosote. And, the volatiles raise the strength of the powder.
So, when you grind the charcoal, is it still damp? Or does it have to dry it, but not burn up the creosote? I've seen the creosote burnt up, in my retort. It is really shiny and tiny flakes, of what appear to be ash. I'm understanding that I cooked the coal too hot, or too long, or both. I always light the vent flame and when it is nearly out, I quit. I'm cooking charcoal in a brick lined wood stove, on a bed of coals, with my retort raised off the coals and controlling the fire with incoming air and a damper. Basically, I can make my firebox a 500° + oven.
The vent flame on my retort will blow steam and smoke, until it dries out, and then it lights an orange flame, which quickly will turn to a nice blue flame and then goes back to orange, before it goes out. I'm thinking of killing the cook when the flame is still blue, to see if it leaves the creosote damp or not. My question is, is the charcoal supposed to be damp from the creosote when you air float it? If so, does it cause clumping when milling? Or is the coal supposed to be just cooked dry and not damp?

[indian joe]

Guys, I have a question.
I re-read Linstrum's posts and have been thinking about the ash content, and the deal that Almar posted on the Swiss powder manufacturing techniques and leaving creosote in the charcoal, etc. The Swiss powder is perceived to leave more damp, and thus more removeable fowling, because of the creosote. And, the volatiles raise the strength of the powder.
So, when you grind the charcoal, is it still damp? Or does it have to dry it, but not burn up the creosote? I've seen the creosote burnt up, in my retort. It is really shiny and tiny flakes, of what appear to be ash. I'm understanding that I cooked the coal too hot, or too long, or both. I always light the vent flame and when it is nearly out, I quit. I'm cooking charcoal in a brick lined wood stove, on a bed of coals, with my retort raised off the coals and controlling the fire with incoming air and a damper. Basically, I can make my firebox a 500° + oven.
The vent flame on my retort will blow steam and smoke, until it dries out, and then it lights an orange flame, which quickly will turn to a nice blue flame and then goes back to orange, before it goes out. I'm thinking of killing the cook when the flame is still blue, to see if it leaves the creosote damp or not. My question is, is the charcoal supposed to be damp from the creosote when you air float it? If so, does it cause clumping when milling? Or is the coal supposed to be just cooked dry and not damp?

I'm burning dry willow wood (a couple years old deadfall stuff)
The residue I see is kinda gummy / tarlike on the inside of the container lid
Sticks will be a brownish colour to almost black (dark brown would be my ideal)
They will snap clean with a little effort but not too brittle
I grind it in a big old meat grinder and so long as it will go through that ok its in
Usually get some pieces that are not cooked enough to grind up and I save them for ron (later on)
When its ground I ball mill the lot and stash it in airtight containers (no matter how hard you try to fill them at the start, over time the contents will settle by 20% or so)
Definitely not damp from the creosote but I started with dead dry wood anyway.
proly no help at all but is what I do and what I see

[SeaMonkey]

The Swiss Process of making Charcoal results in a "Charcoal" that most resembles "Torrefied Wood" rather than traditional Charcoal which is produced at higher temperatures.

Charcoals made for Grilling or Foundry Work are made at high temperatures where almost all of the volatile products of pyrolysis are released.

This results in a Charcoal that is nearly pure Carbon and which burns at the desired very high temperatures. This charcoal is not effective for Black Powder.

Charcoals which are produced at lower temperatures have different qualities due to the retention of volatile compounds produced during thermal decomposition of the wood.

The type of charcoal best suited for Black Powder could actually be referred to as Torrefied Wood or Torrefied Bio-Char.

Attached are several documents which explain the Chemistry of Thermal Wood Decomposition and the by-products.

Ulrich Bretscher's Charcoal Page is brief but has a lot of relevant information.

[almar]

doublebuck: same as Indian joe, the charcoal is dry and mills to a light powder and actually i noticed that it milled for even longer than usual without clumping.

Sea monkey: you are a great source for data! Great stuff.

The problem i'm having is consistency, and there is a noticeable difference with performance from batch to batch with this setup. I let it reach a certain temperature but sometimes i do it quicker sometimes slower etc..it's not easy to replicate consistently when you are aiming for a specific point in the middle of the cook. So i've been doing some researching, calculations and designing and will be building a small electrical kiln on 120v so i can leave it be and regulate itself with a PID, its cheaper than i thought. The kiln will be more consistent. The entire setup will be on a timer for a specific time so i can hit the same target over and over again. I machine parts sometimes so the kiln will be useful for other things as well.

Ive been trying to come up with an inexpensive way to make a pressurized cylinder for the kiln but did not come up with a way to make one yet. For the time being i plan to put the gallon paint bucket directly into the kiln, in it, the smaller paint can containing the wood, the empty area in the gallon can will be filled with sand as it is a good heat sink. I'm doing all this with the paint cans to avoid a direct application of heat to the wood, as this is another cause of inconsistency.

[Vettepilot]

Oohh... more reference material. Cool!! I gather that up like a kid does candy.

Anyone cooked cedar chips and have any hints/tips/insights??

Thanks!
Vettepilot

[almar]

I have never cooked cedar chips but i imagine that it would be quick because they are thin, need to stir them around a lot maybe?

[Vettepilot]

doublebuck: same as Indian joe, the charcoal is dry and mills to a light powder and actually i noticed that it milled for even longer than usual without clumping.

Sea monkey: you are a great source for data! Great stuff.

The problem i'm having is consistency, and there is a noticeable difference with performance from batch to batch with this setup. I let it reach a certain temperature but sometimes i do it quicker sometimes slower etc..it's not easy to replicate consistently when you are aiming for a specific point in the middle of the cook. So i've been doing some researching, calculations and designing and will be building a small electrical kiln on 120v so i can leave it be and regulate itself with a PID, its cheaper than i thought. The kiln will be more consistent. The entire setup will be on a timer for a specific time so i can hit the same target over and over again. I machine parts sometimes so the kiln will be useful for other things as well.

Ive been trying to come up with an inexpensive way to make a pressurized cylinder for the kiln but did not come up with a way to make one yet. For the time being i plan to put the gallon paint bucket directly into the kiln, in it, the smaller paint can containing the wood, the empty area in the gallon can will be filled with sand as it is a good heat sink. I'm doing all this with the paint cans to avoid a direct application of heat to the wood, as this is another cause of inconsistency.

Oh yeah. You are definitely on the right track. You're likely to end up with the best and most consistent homemade charcoal ever made if you stick with it. As I mentioned and you're working on, a PID electric kiln will be key here. Then keeping any variables as constant as possible; wood size, cooking time, temp, etc., etc. It's all good stuff!! Just like handloading exceptional ammo; eliminate variables.

Yeah, I too looked into making a kiln, and it's not going to be too tough nor expensive. I don't know why "store-bought" are so darned expensive. I'm sure I'll find other uses for it once I have it.

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Some people mix sand into plaster of paris to make the kiln walls. I'm not sure if I'll use something like that, or something like fire bricks. If I go with the plaster, I'm rather thinking micro balloons or diatomaceous earth would be better thermally than sand to mix in the plaster of paris.

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I used Plaster of Paris to build a forge/ foundry about 20 years ago.
I left it in California.
Otherwise I could have turned down the flame a whole lot and used the foundry to heat up my charcoal.
But a metal melting foundry may be a good option to cook charcoal since they can be heat controlled.

[DoubleBuck]

Thanks for the replies everybody. Joe, I've seen my charcoal as you describe and thought it was not cooked well enough and recooked it. haha. I thought you were supposed to cook all the volatiles out of the coal, because you were adding volatiles to it, with the KNO3 and Sulfur. I'm going to try this brown coal, and see how it performs, if I can get the procedure down.
SeaMonkey, thanks for the links. There's some good info there, and I'm not done reading, yet.
Almar, you have kicked it, ever since you started posting here! You have went from student to teacher, nearly overnight!
You have given me a couple of ideas, to try. First of all, I like the can in a can idea. I have a gallon paint can, and a pint paint can, that would work, but I also have a couple of five gallon steel buckets, with sealable lids, that were used for large bolts and nuts to be shipped in, for steel building construction. The one gallon can or even two could be baked inside one can, and the sand is a cool idea, or even fire brick, which I have several of, which could be packed around the can, if I am able to build a fire capable of heating it all, to proper temperature.
I have thought about using one of the five gallon cans, with a one gallon paint can inside, and possibly brazing a copper line, to the lid vent hole, and running it out of the large can, to atmosphere. With a quarter inch copper line, or so, a guy could even put a valve on it, to allow a pinched vent, to get some pressure, without blowing the lid off. Someone even mentioned using self tapping screws on a paint can lid, to keep it secure. I also have a killer burner, I got from a salvage yard, which I use to melt lead. I think if I did some studying, a crude kiln could be fabricated pretty easily, with mostly already obtained materials.
I've been pretty satisfied with my powder and when I got the density up to snuff, I thought I was about peaked out on performance, and then here you guys come with a whole new system, and even positive results from other than the holy grail of 75-15-10 compounds! I'm already making great powder, fairly consistently. I'm excited to get a new perspective, and see where it leads.
We may finally make the powder that John Wayne shoots with a 30-30, or a .45, under the bridge, or in the store, which explodes, killing the bad guys. We need to find out how THAT guy made powder!
Good luck to you all and thanks again for all the great information and documentation of your experiments!

[almar]

Doublebuck: This whole thread is the teacher. Its amazing what people can do when they brainstorm and share their experiences on a subject. Failures are just as important to me as success so I share them as well. This kiln im planning to build is a new project it will be made with refractory brick and that's the most expensive component, it would be cheaper with plaster but I hear not as durable. The coils are the more complicated part to determine, their design depends on kiln surface area, amperage, voltage surface load limits etc, if anyone decides to go down this road as well, I can share what I learned, just wait till I build it first because who knows with expectations versus reality on this one. One thing I learned some time ago when I was making knives and planning a forge build is that you should never ever heat galvanized parts, the fumes are deadly. Just a heads up.

[Eddie2002]

Been following this discussion about building a kiln for charcoal manufacturing and had a thought, instead of scratch building a kiln wouldn't it be possible to convert an electric oven into a carbon cooker?. Most of the control circuitry would already be in place and just a little more insulation would be needed to to reach and maintain the 600 degree point. It would be a dedicated piece of equipment since the heat range wouldn't be as wide as a kiln but converting a used oven over would probably a lot cheaper than a total scratch build kiln. Even a little counter top cheapo unit would work as a proof of concept experiment. Just a low tech thought. Love this thread

[DoubleBuck]

Almar; I'll vouch for the galvanized parts fumes being toxic, for sure. It will make you sick or worse. I spent a lot of years cutting and welding in fabrication, and have been sick from the fumes, more than once.

Eddie2002, I don't see why an electric oven (or gas) wouldn't work. Most ovens will go 550°+, which will bake our charcoal. I've seen a lot of ranges given away and scrap yards always have an oven. Even with a bad thermocouple, an oven would have to be manually regulated, but would reach 600°, no problemo. That is actually a great idea and I have a spare gas oven, with a bad thermocouple, which we set back, because it is a 1948 model and we couldn't make ourselves throw it away. I have a few propane bottles, that would make that project ten minutes to complete. Plus, it could be used outside, where it is now, covered with a tarp. A guy could bake charcoal long and slow and do three or four paint can retorts at one time.
I think your idea is most excellent!

[Vettepilot]

Oh yes!! Galvanized metal!! Don't EVER cut with a torch, weld, or otherwise overheat. I got galvanizing poisoning twice, and for a bit, thought I was going to die!! Stay away from that for sure.

The oven is a good idea. I'll likely make a kiln though. Smaller, and will go to higher temps for other uses.

It shouldn't be tough to rig up a PID to run an oven, and you could add more insulation if you want, but it wouldn't be a necessity for 600 degrees F. You could also use the oven for powder coating. (Generally done around 400 degrees F.) And heat treating cast boolits too! Hmmm, the oven idea is starting to look pretty good...

Edit to add: If you're ever welding or heating a piece of metal and it tends to fizzle on the surface and flare up with a bit of flame and white smoke--> that's a galvanized coating! Stop, and stay away from that white smoke! Note that anyone attempting to cast zinc, same warning. If you get any hot enough to put off smoke, shut down and clear the air!!

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

Using a kitchen oven, (or a kiln) you would want to rig an outside vent for the wood/charcoal to off gas. For that, they make just the thing. Flexible supply lines for sinks. They make two types. One is plastic tubing with a stainless steel braid covering it. It might not take the heat. The type you would want is the corrugated steel tubing. Flexible and heat proof. It comes in 5/16" or 3/8" i.d.

Just an idea...

Vettepilot