My homemade black powder

[LAGS]

I use sheet brass from Hobby Lobby for my primer caps also.
The only thing that I have that is a potential problem is,
The brass is stiffer than Aluminum.
Sometimes I have to punch out the cups.
Then use a punch I made that is the correct size for the nipple to final form the cups by inserting it into the cup , and tap it down on something hard so the inside of all the cups are uniform.
If I don't.
The primer sometimes is a tiny bit too tight on the nipple and won't let it compress on firing , causing a misfire.
They always fire on the second strike.
This may just be an issue with My primer cup maker.
But it is better to do just a little more work than to be frustrated later during firing.
I also made a little jig that forms the outside of the cup at the same time for really consistent cups.
It makes the cup square on the top so there is no Cushoning effect when the cap is fired.
The outside forming plate is on a pivot.
So you put the cup in , insert the punch.
Then tap once.
Than pivot the outside forming plate so it is over a recess .
Then just tap the cap into the hole to collect them.

[almar]

yes! i had the same problem at first but somehow this stopped. I'm not sure if i started to load the caps with less primer to cause less cushioning maybe? or i pushed them in a little harder?

[DoubleBuck]

Almar, you asked about increasing density? A couple months ago, we got into that discussion, and a couple of guys started posting some really great information, on density yield. I followed the science as they say, and my powder weighs really close to equal volume, to Schutzen. Not enough to try further. In clean burn, speed of burn and accuracy, it is right there. BUT, I bought a chronograph after I ran out of Schutzen, so do not know if bullet speed is higher. Bullet path raised, if that tells you anything.
The density increased substantially when I took advice on how to press it. Hit it and let it set under pressure, for awhile. And, let the pressure off and hit it again. I'm too impatient to cycle it many times, but I do believe that every fifteen minutes, for an hour worked great. My best results were a tight 20 tons, for about an hour. The pucks nearly killed me getting them broke down to grains, but it was/is great powder.
On your moisture, I'm on the really humid side, where I live as well. I have a dehydrator, that has about ten tiers on it. I place the powder on the top tier and run the dehydrator at 140°. About two hours, it is face powder dry. It will mill for as long as you want, and come out fluffy, never caked. Someone else posted to let it set in an open container inside, by the windshield of your car on a hot day, and that works great, too and it gets that same 140° or real close, on a hot day.
Very dry is what you need for milling and almost no moisture for pressing. I set my powder on the table, in 60% relative humidity, and it drew too much moisture, in 24 hours, to press the best. But, completely dry, it will not press at all. It falls apart as soon as you lift the pressure off.
For me, personally, I dry it completely, then add a measured 1/2 gram of distilled water to each one ounce of powder. I press one, and if it is too dry, I add 3/4 gram of water to the completely dry powder, and hit another one. I've never had to add less than a 1/2 gram, nor more than 3/4 gram per ounce. If it leaves a moisture haze on my backing plate, with no visible water, around the edge of the die, I consider it just right. Until this year, I had always pucked my powder like you. Hit for five minutes and do another one. Try the longer wait time, and I think you will be pleased with the increase in density. I don't really know what it does or why, but it seems to work.
On the wood, I saw the same thing about Plum, that you did, I guess. They had it rated with the best, on lift and burn speed. I also cut up a dead four year old Plum tree, that winter killed last year. If it works too good for you, let us know, and I'll try it next, also. You'll be happy with the Black Willow.
I've never polished or graphited powder, so can't help you there.
You and HamGunner and Laggs have me going on making caps! Like I need another project! I've thought about it before but, figured it was probably dangerous, tedious, or too time consuming. Or all three. Now, the wheels are turning.
Thanks for your posts and good luck! It sounds like you got it going on!

[SeaMonkey]

There really is nothing more satisfying than reading reports from Gunners who have mastered the skills of doing it all!

Making a powder that is indistinguishable in performance to the commercially made powders.

Being able to make their own caps from scratch which are durable and reliable.

And making powders that burn so quickly that they can be used in the flash pan of the Flint Lock.

Once the skills are mastered they can easily be passed along to up and coming Gunners who want to achieve the same level of self sufficiency.

Amazing good work Gentlemen! And including any Ladies who may have caught the Bug as well!

[almar]

DoubleBuck, This information just made my day! Thank you very much for sharing it. I'm taking notes and will use it on Saturday.

[DoubleBuck]

SeaMonkey, I agree. I'm hoping one of my grandsons, or others of their generation get interested. Right now, they are too young, with too short of attention spans, but they love the results, when I take news paper, and make small rockets, and firecrackers! Two of them are getting into my personal rifle range, .22s and roll gun pistols. One is a good little spotter, on the 3 and 6 hundred yard targets. I taught him to tell time, by the strikes related to the clock face. Right when I thought a lot of my .22 ammo was getting pretty old, they got interested. No more worry of old ammo! And, they get supervised gun cleaning classes and love it!
Almar, you're welcome! Keep us informed, how it all goes for you! I'm pretty sure I'm going to be hitting you guys up on making these caps!

[almar]

Anytime Doublebuck, I'm sure many have experience with making caps but ill gladly share what I discovered with my testing and improvements, ie additives to prime all, etc.
I did some testing today with my plum powder today but I suspect that its still a little wet. Before learning here I was wetting the powder a lot, I mean water was leaking out of the dies at 2000 psi. And I granulated it right out of the press.

plum fffg: I fired 2 shots 25 gr by weight with a 220gr johnson and dow bullet one was 666 fps and the other was a poor 527 fps
willow fffg, 25 gr by weight 584fps and the other was another 584 fps

The benchmark is swiss fffg with a 5 shot string 25 gr hi 774 fps low 647fps average 703 fps

the willow seemed to be giving me closer to swiss by weight at 30gr with the ffg not fffg but I will test this and record it on the Caldwell to be sure.

So I think the plum powder may still be wet given the large amount of black suit and velocity spread. Ill try it again tomorrow, its just air drying, I don't have a dehydrator. I will bring the ball mill container and media inside so that it dries out, put the ffg and fffg plum in and ball mill it for as long as I can again this weekend, with the green powder, ill make new pucks maxing out my 12ton press and cycling it for an hour and see what this powder does. I use ceramic media.

I actually kind of enjoy the fine tuning part actually.

[DoubleBuck]

Almar, I'm sorry to hear your poor comparison results. And, I wish I could tell you the trick, but it's a comedy of variables and a process that will strain the ability to stay consistent, where you can find the key.
From experience, the basics seem to be good milling time (that can be anyone's guess) and consistent charcoal (ten people will have 12 ways to do it).
I settled on one wood, small batches, and trying to keep my charcoal cooking consistent. Then, went from long milling times to short ones, with the same ingredients and, tried to see the difference.
Just because, and no other reason; I mortar and pestle all three ingredients, before I mill them. I mill the charcoal generally an hour, for no particular reason, I just want it as airfloat as I can get it.
I use 60 caliber lead balls, 50 each in each barrel of a Harbor Freight mill, with a half pound of green meal. I have settled on about four hours mill time, before pucking. The couple of times I tried it, I really couldn't tell the difference in 8 hours and 4 hours, but didn't have a chronograph for a last word, and only used a linear speed test.
I used to wet it to a ball and screen it, and dry it, and re mill it, for an hour. But, the last few batches I've made, I cut the wetting, screening and drying out. The theory is the KNO3 will incorporate better, with water and the screening gives a little more mix and makes drying easier. My theory is that if mixed well, any further benefit from water is redundant. You wet it properly and mix it, and let it set awhile, and mix it more, and puck it. If its moisture content is correct, and evenly distributed, it will plasticize.
Now, whether I am right or wrong, you will have to decide for yourself. You may decide either way, or another totally different one, that works best for you. Some guys go longer on the mill time and some go shorter.
I like your ceramic mill media. My lead balls have dropped several grains of weight, over probably ten pounds of powder. I had a weight gain problem, and chased it all over, triple checking my weights and finally measured my lead and found I was losing some in each batch. I'm thinking that can't be a good thing, for several reasons. If nothing else, the powder has to be more dirty.
One more thing and I'll leave you alone. You mentioned the 3f being lighter, by volume than the 2f? I have never actually tested it, to see, but something I learned a few years ago, on dump trucks. A load of rip-rap rock is heavier than a load of sand, by volume. haha I had to have it proved to me. Even wet sand is lighter. I guess each grain is surrounded by air and the more grains you have the more air you have. Imagine that!
Good luck with your powder and tests! Like tuning a race car, keep the variables as low as you can, and try to work on one at a time. You have it going on, and you'll do great, I'm confident! Keep us informed!

[DoubleBuck]

Great work HamGunner!

I just finished pucking and started the next batch milling. I measured the puck thickness out of my new 50.8mm (2") die, and weighed the damp pucks and I get 1.84 as a calculated density. So dry they should be 1.78! I am putting as much pull as I can into an 8 ton jack, and letting it sit for 8 minutes. Not cycling the pressure.

Crisper, that's great density, if it holds true! Let us know, when it's dry, if you can.

[almar]

hey hey, did some plum powder testing. same load as yesterday but it felt alot sharper.
25gr fffg 3 shots average 669 fps, std dev 32 spread 60 fps (646 655 706)

the swiss was 703 fps average over 5 shots with a stdev of 47 and 127fps spread

I am liking this! I think it dried up finally. There is still a lot I can do to refine this powder, for one the charcoal process, then the milling time, and the puck making.

I loaded one cylinder with 2fg and it shot 603fps much better too.



I think I need to make a dry box or get a dehydrator.

[LAGS]

Thank you.
Plum wood will be easier for me to find out here in the Desert than Willow of any kind.
Gonna have to give it a try.

[DoubleBuck]

Almar, I'm impressed! You know how to shorten the learning curve, for sure! Congrats on the success! Could you tell how clean the Plum was, versus your Swiss?
One thing on the dehydrator. If you know the set temps and aren't scared of it, you can use a ceramic slow cooker, to dry your product with, too. They are very inexpensive, and work very well. Set it on low and let it do its thing. Small fans are easy to set on them, as well. You can probably buy three slow cookers for the price of a good dehydrator.

Lags, if you need some wood, and I have available to me, what you would like, I can ship you some wood. HighUintas and I traded some awhile back and I think it was about $15 for six pounds, by mail. He sent me enough to make more than two pounds of powder, or maybe three, if I remember.
I can get you many kinds of wood. I have not found Paulownia, or Tree of Heaven, but many other kinds. Let me know, if you're interested, and what wood you want. I don't mind getting it for ya.

[almar]

Hi double buck, the plum was a bit dirtier than the swiss I guess it makes sense if its taking the same amount of powder to produce a little less energy, could be milling time? or maybe because I use a bit less potassium in this batch? that's a good idea with the crockpot and I have a large and small one. I also have a very large type toaster oven with convection fans too. I usually use it to powder coat my bullets. I also have a PID controller I made for my lee 20lb pot and an extra k type thermocouple. I could hook them up and set the PID to 95 deg or so, the convection fan would circulate the air and the PID would ensure that it does not spike in temperature. I did this in the past when I used to coat my bullets with hi tek coating. I may try a small not so dangerous batch first. what do you think?

what with this tree of heaven? I think (not certain, ive only seen google pics just now) I have a lot of those growing near the railroad close to here.

[swamp]

I use Tree of Heaven and it works well for me.

[square butte]

I saw an interesting program a few days ago about charcoal and charcoal briquets being made in tropical countries from coconut shells. I suspect the coconut hull charcoal would not be perfect and would be of inconsistent quality for good powder - The shells are quite hard. None the less it was interesting and got me thinking. On a side note the briquets were made by adding cassava starch to the charcoal to make a binder - the resulting paste was then extruded and cut into three inch long pieces with a hole in the center to promote ignition and burn.

[DoubleBuck]

Almar, I think your idea for drying is great! That Tree of Heaven is supposed to make some really fine powder. They say it is invasive, and a problem, in many areas, but so far, I have found none here. I am sure there is some here, I just haven't been able to come up with it yet. Same with Paulownia. HighUintas sent me some of it, and I sent him some of my Sassafras a while back. That Paulownia is good powder, too.
I bet you have Sassafras where you are, too. I urge you to give it a try. Since my first batch, it has been my favorite. I shoot .58 caliber rifled musket, and am using 278 grain patched round balls. My main test load is 60 grains, but I've tested many different loads. I also shoot mini's but stick with the PRB's for tests.
Over many shots, Sassafras has an average of just about 1340-1370 FPS and a deviation average around 30 fps.
Paulownia averaged 1260 on 50 shots, the one batch I've tested. The deviation was also around 30 fps, but one ten shot group averaged 1299 and 19 fps!
55 shots of Balsa averaged 1325, but the deviation was at and over 50fps. It has amazing linear burn rate, but I was disappointed with my chrono results. I've tested three other powders, but these have been the top three, so far. I tested Black Willow which good and Black Locust sprouts. They grow 12 feet in one summer, in my yard, but they were actually slow, and dirty powder.
I bought a Caldwell Chronograph, this spring, which has really helped my last word results. I've had a few weird readings, but determined that smoke, and or patches were affecting some of them. Some of that fine tuning you mentioned. Another dang variable, to fight. haha
If you would like a good read on powder lift and linear burn rates on I think about 80 different powders, with info on mill times, and other variables, this really helped me, on my journey. http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fire...oal_tests.html

[DoubleBuck]

Swamp, I love your quote! Every time I see it, it cracks me up!
There is no problem so great, that it cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosives.

[swamp]

I got it when I was EOD. Figured it was a good philosophy
swamp.

[swamp]

I got it when I was EOD. Figured it was a good philosophy
swamp.

[almar]

I got it when I was EOD. Figured it was a good philosophy
swamp.

I moved here from Canada when that muppet got elected in 2015. I served from 95 to 2001 in the Canadian army corp of engineers and we did all the EOD. went to Yugo under roto5 99-2000 and did a lot of mine work and "disposed" of a lot of confiscated mines, plastic etc...best time of my life. We teamed up with the US and the british to raid a croate base that we found to have taken out all the explosives from their mines they turned over and replaced it with sand, we filled 3 tri walls full and blew it up with c4 on top of a mountain. We could hear the blast for miles. Many nice moments many others that made me realize how good we have it here. I later got my degree in mechanical engineering and focused on the good experience and that's how I could move here. I love it here and the freedom we have is precious, many don't realize that because they don't know how it is to live without it. Allright no more of this.

So turns out those trees I thought might have been tree of heaven were more likely honey locust, I have a lot of pine, different oaks, sweet gum and one black willow on my property. I have not covered all of my property and will not in the summer when cotton mouths are rampant (I have several acres in the sticks and got rid of a lot of those rascals).

I have new batch milling right now much drier and will check in an hour to see if its caking, the plum powder with ball and wad seems to be about as clean as swiss quite different that with the J&D bullet, I used 30 grains of 2fg by volume and was about as much as I could compress in there on my 1860 army with a wad. this next batch has a higher kno3 content and will mill for as longs as I can, tomorrow I make pucks.