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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #3981
    Boolit Master
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    I wish one of you ambitious and studious, hard working experimenters would try glazing some home made powder. Then see how the grain density stacks up to Goex, and how much better it might flow into measures. A fellow wouldn't have to use graphite if you don't want it. Just throw some otherwise ready to go powder back in the tumbler with some scraps of denim material. You'll likely have to screen it again then to get the dust out, but it would be interesting to see how much it increases density via the grains stacking together better, and how much better it handles in our measures.

    Sorry, I'm just so buried in work right now I don't have time for experimenting myself. And my back is just killing me and it looks like a third operation is in the near future... :~(

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  2. #3982
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    "Sorry, I'm just so buried in work right now I don't have time for experimenting myself. And my back is just killing me and it looks like a third operation is in the near future... :~( "
    Sorry to hear that, VettePilot. Hope you don't have to have it, but if you do, I hope you heal fast and fully.

  3. #3983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    I wish one of you ambitious and studious, hard working experimenters would try glazing some home made powder. Then see how the grain density stacks up to Goex, and how much better it might flow into measures. A fellow wouldn't have to use graphite if you don't want it. Just throw some otherwise ready to go powder back in the tumbler with some scraps of denim material. You'll likely have to screen it again then to get the dust out, but it would be interesting to see how much it increases density via the grains stacking together better, and how much better it handles in our measures.

    Sorry - not me - aint broke dont need fixin

    Sorry, I'm just so buried in work right now I don't have time for experimenting myself. And my back is just killing me and it looks like a third operation is in the near future... :~(

    Vettepilot
    ......

  4. #3984
    Boolit Master
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    "Sorry - not me - aint broke dont need fixin"
    Indian Joe, lol

  5. #3985
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    It's just me... always curious. Yeah, yeah... I know about curiosity and the cat. ;~)

    I'm presently reading "Never for want of powder". Even in war time, they polished their powder, for whatever that's worth.

    Thanks for the well wishes. Really is miserable. Takes a ton of will power to fight the pain and get all my work/projects moving forward. Another MRI coming near end of month...

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  6. #3986
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    Ok, so I worked pucks three days ago and put all the fines in a cottage cheese container, without a lid and exposed to 65-94% humidity, from 72-94°. I pressed a stack and came back thirty minutes later, and had probably lost a full gram, if not two, of moisture. Imagine that, if you will. All I could do, is grin. So, now I have the rest setting on my 140° pickup dash, waiting to take the first set off the press. Thanks for the great idea, Paramax55!!!
    I'm saying, that this high humidity can be a blessing, or a curse, and it's pretty variable. Sometimes you feel like a nut....

  7. #3987
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    Thanks for those research links HighUintas!

  8. #3988
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    So it rather sounds like...

    If your powder has been well exposed to ~50% humidity or more, it might be good to press. If not, add moisture. (And very dam little.)

    Anyone care to take me up on my glazing/polishing idea?

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  9. #3989
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    And if you're car is still there after 12 hours of drying powder on the dash, you're good to go!!

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  10. #3990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    So it rather sounds like...

    If your powder has been well exposed to ~50% humidity or more, it might be good to press. If not, add moisture. (And very dam little.)

    Anyone care to take me up on my glazing/polishing idea?

    Vettepilot
    I'll take you up on your proposal at some point, VP! I'd like to be able to fit just as much powder as OE in my case at some point.

    Also, I hope your MRI goes well and you get it sorted quickly!

    Hopefully I'll have some testing results on my charcoals to report in a day or two.

    As for my press, thanks for the advice on getting things square. I didn't think to square all the pieces and level everything when assembling it. That helped alot! I decided to press a few pucks last night to test it. Pressed very very slowly to make sure it stayed fairly square in the die and didn't add as much pressure as I had before. I added more water to account for the lower pressure. Slightly too much because I got a bead of water that was pushed out. But, no puck flowing out of the bottom of the sleeve, so that's great!

  11. #3991
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    Glad it worked out my friend. I should add that when pressing things out of alignment, things can very suddenly go far enough out of alignment that the column can come apart and eject pieces out at high velocity and cause injury. (This of course depends on what all one has stacked up to do the pressing.--> sometimes it takes an assortment of spacers, rods, etc., to accomplish the pressing job at hand.)

    I had a quick look at the Harbor Freight presses the other day. They of course, bolt together so they can be compact for shipping. Getting one all dead square/straight and the bolts good and tight, then welding it together would make a better and more reliable press.

    And as always, love to see test results!

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 06-12-2021 at 05:23 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  12. #3992
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    HighUintas, glad to hear you're back in the game! Keep an eye out, for used shop presses. With the economy and all the closing businesses, you might find a killer deal on a good press.

  13. #3993
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    I got out to shoot a few different powders saturday and I can't draw many conclusions. At that range they do cease fires every 15 minutes, my Chrono was giving some errors, and I was tight on time. I should have also stretched this out to at least 10 shots each.

    Here's what I tested:
    Paulownia powder #1 - this is the first batch where the charring temp was just slightly lower than the #2

    Paulownia #2 - this was charred at a slightly higher temperature and longer at 650. Milled for 12 hrs

    Paulownia #2 - same charcoal as above but milled for 24hrs.

    Cedar #1 - charred at very low temp, leaving a bit of the charcoal brownish

    Cedar #2 - charred at higher temp, maybe about the same as Paulownia #2

    With these, I wanted to test:

    1. Cleanliness of low temp vs high temp

    2. Speed of low temp vs high temp

    3. If my mill was maxing out velocity at a 12 hr mill time.


    I had trouble with the Chrono reading either my wads or the smoke for the first few shots. Those are the errors. I didn't want to use up all of one type of load, so I jumped around until I got the Chrono set right. I cleaned the bore completely prior to shooting the measured speed shots and between each load type, where it says "cleaned".

    The cleanliness test was inconclusive. I couldn't tell a difference in the patches when I cleaned between loads. But, since I had only shot a couple rounds of the cedar before cleaning to go to the next and it looked similar to 4 rounds of the Paulownia, maybe the cedar is dirtier.

    The difference in speed between 12 and 24 he milling is negligible.

    The speed between high and low temp doesn't look different for Paulownia. I think I need to have a larger temp difference between the two charcoals to see a difference.

    The cedar is interesting. I wasn't sure why they were measuring so high on speed. I found right after I shot both groups of cedar that the sun had shifted to where one of the Chrono sensors was no longer in the shadow and was getting hit by stronger light. Could that be the reason for the weirdly high speed measurements there? Surely those speeds aren't possible with any type of BP and they're wrong . The one lower speed one, 1189fps, was shot much earlier on.

    Even if the true measurements aren't correct on the cedar, I wonder if the relative values between them are correct. Maybe the lower temp cedar is a couple hundred fps faster than the high temp?

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    Last edited by HighUintas; 06-14-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  14. #3994
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    HighUintas; glad to see you got to test some, anyway! I had a lot of errors and shots that weren't recorded correctly, when I first bought my chronograph. I think I found out that it was reading a bullet and then reading, or trying to read, the patch. I saw where the patches were mainly falling, and moved it back toward the table, and it has done well, at about 11 feet from the muzzle. I, like you, have decided that ten shot groups may give a little more information, but your rifle seems to shoot better than mine, too. Or, you're just a better shot. I have started shading my chrono eyes, all the time. Again, I think you are right, that the bright light seems to just not read correctly. I used a tee shirt stretched across the shades, on mine and it worked great, with a rock on each one, to weight it down. haha. One point late in the afternoon, I used the chrono box, to shade them.
    Other than the oddball speeds on the cedar, it looks like you are dialed in on consistent speeds. The top pic. shows a deviation of just 20 fps, on four shots. I'd say that is pretty decent, for sure. And, your groups are pretty fine, too.
    It looks like any one of the powders would work, in a pinch!
    BTW, what does 'comp 0.075, or 0.080' mean? Thanks for posting your results! It looks like you're on your way, for sure!

  15. #3995
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    Well, this is difficult to read/cipher, but it's the load and velocity info from Thompson Center for my "Impact" 50 cal muzzleloader. Don't know if that helps any...

    Sorry for the screwed up formatting. I tried to post the whole pdf file, but could not, so this is what came of a "copy & paste" job of the pertinent section.

    Use With Bullets
    Weighing
    (Grains)
    Black Powder
    Charge (Grains)
    Muzzle Velocity
    (Feet Per Second)
    Muzzle Energy
    (Foot Pounds)
    275 Grain
    Maxi-Hunter
    or
    320 Grain
    Maxi-Ball
    Lead
    Bullet
    80 grs. FFG 1408 F.P.S. 1409 Ft. Lbs.
    90 grs. FFG 1462 F.P.S. 1519 Ft. Lbs.
    100 grs. FFG 1511 F.P.S. 1623 Ft. Lbs.
    110 grs. FFG 1588 F.P.S. 1792 Ft. Lbs.
    120 grs. FFG 1632 F.P.S. 1893 Ft. Lbs.
    350 Grain
    Maxi-Hunter
    or
    370 Grain
    Maxi-Ball
    Lead
    Bullet
    80 grs. FFG 1344 F.P.S. 1484 Ft. Lbs.
    90 grs. FFG 1426 F.P.S. 1671 Ft. Lbs.
    100 grs. FFG 1478 F.P.S. 1795 Ft. Lbs.
    110 grs. FFG 1535 F.P.S. 1936 Ft. Lbs.
    120 grs. FFG 1556 F.P.S. 1990 Ft. Lbs.
    Load Shown in Red is Maximum


    Obviously, YMMV...

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #3996
    Boolit Master
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    Then here's some Pyrodex and Triple 7 data from Hodgdon:

    (PDF upload worked for this one.)

    Vettepilot
    Attached Files Attached Files
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  17. #3997
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    HighUintas; glad to see you got to test some, anyway! I had a lot of errors and shots that weren't recorded correctly, when I first bought my chronograph. I think I found out that it was reading a bullet and then reading, or trying to read, the patch. I saw where the patches were mainly falling, and moved it back toward the table, and it has done well, at about 11 feet from the muzzle. I, like you, have decided that ten shot groups may give a little more information, but your rifle seems to shoot better than mine, too. Or, you're just a better shot. I have started shading my chrono eyes, all the time. Again, I think you are right, that the bright light seems to just not read correctly. I used a tee shirt stretched across the shades, on mine and it worked great, with a rock on each one, to weight it down. haha. One point late in the afternoon, I used the chrono box, to shade them.
    Other than the oddball speeds on the cedar, it looks like you are dialed in on consistent speeds. The top pic. shows a deviation of just 20 fps, on four shots. I'd say that is pretty decent, for sure. And, your groups are pretty fine, too.
    It looks like any one of the powders would work, in a pinch!
    BTW, what does 'comp 0.075, or 0.080' mean? Thanks for posting your results! It looks like you're on your way, for sure!
    The "comp" is the amount of compression prior to seating the bullet.

    Thanks for the tshirt tip! I'll do ta next time. I ended up moving my Chrono to 15 feet and lowering it to where the bullet path was higher in the shade rod's "triangle".

    Yours doesn't seem to have an issue with the smoke? I guess I've not heard about smoke screwing with the readings, but assumed it would so I haven't tried closer than 12 feet.

  18. #3998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Then here's some Pyrodex and Triple 7 data from Hodgdon:

    (PDF upload worked for this one.)

    Vettepilot
    Goex also has load charts for their BP! They show loads for lots of cartridge, musket ball and conical, and pistol. Pretty neat.

    I think a 1750fps measurement for a 405gr 45cal with 68gr BP and a 24" barrel has to be impossible, unless I just discovered unicorn powder for my rifle! Haha

  19. #3999
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    I just sold an extra powder balance I had, so I picked up a HF dual tumbler with the Father day discount so that I can quit putting wear and tear on my kid's tumbler.

    I also decided I was tired of worrying about inhaling lead dust when working with my powder. After tumbling, my start of 130g is usually 136-137g. I know a tiny bit of that is moisture, but not much. Most is copper and lead. So I decided to get some 304ss 1/2" balls too. I looked at the ceramic media types, but the regular alumina is way too light to be very efficient in a 4" drum (just my theory) and the zirconia stuff is crazy expensive. So I found some affordable 304SS balls on eBay. I think I'll probably do extended single/double chem milling and then a 2 hr mill just to mix ingredients.

    Purer BP, no more lead inhalation.

  20. #4000
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    Can stainless STEEL balls spark? I think that 304 is magnetic.............

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check