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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #3901
    Boolit Bub
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    Well... I did some experiments. Here are the results..

    1) The fun one - I loaded some .45acp with black powder and shot them from my full-size 45 (G21) and my subcompact 45 (G36). They worked and seemed to have decent kick, but they didn't cycle the slide. I loaded some aluminum casings (if they didn't work, I was just going to get rid of them instead of pulling bullets) with the same charge I used for 38sp and topped it with a 230gn soft cast, pc bullet. The chrono said they were in the 1180fps range, but I'm not convinced. Like I said, they didn't cycle the slide (except for one stovepipe), but I did get the glock "bulge" on every case and I've never had that before. Who knows? But it would definitely put holes in stuff in a SHTF situation.

    2) I put one drop of water in some fines I was going to press and let it sit overnight to evenly distribute in the bottle. Then I did the press-release-press method. The original press was over an hour. Then I let the pressure off for several minutes, then pressed it again for more than an hour. I changed two variables at the same time - because... science - so I'm not sure which made the difference. When I did the second pressing, I felt the normal "give" as the pressure came up. That could have been the powder or the press. Then there was only one slight let-off several minutes in. The powder that came out was crunchier and shinier than the other powders so far. I tested it for density - Goex will give me 25 grains in a .45 case, my original powder gave me 22 grains, and this double-pressed gave me 24 grains. Something definitely made it denser.

    3) I made a 100 grahm batch and added 1 grahm of red gum. I put it in a bottle, added 2cc of denatured alcohol, and let it sit overnight. I put it in my die and pressed like normal. I didn't check for density, but it did seem crunchier than the normal stuff. But when I ground it, I got about the same ammount of fines, so no improvement there.

    Well, that's about all I have to add right now. I might start with a few drops of water and double-pressing to get my density up.

  2. #3902
    Boolit Master
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    Those were all very cool. More money than I have, but that's ok, too.
    I saw in the comments, on the first video, that at 1:05, there is a very cool smoke ring blows out of the round window, on the end of their building.

  3. #3903
    Boolit Master
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    Paramax55 notable experiments! Interesting, too!

  4. #3904
    Boolit Bub
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    The alcohol/red gum thing got me thinking... there would be no way to control this and it would go away over time, but... what if you had a little alcohol residue in your black powder when loading cartridges? Could it provide some hydrocarbon for a little extra "kick"? Kind of like dieseling a pellet gun?

  5. #3905
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramax55 View Post
    Well... I did some experiments. Here are the results..

    1) The fun one - I loaded some .45acp with black powder and shot them from my full-size 45 (G21) and my subcompact 45 (G36). They worked and seemed to have decent kick, but they didn't cycle the slide. I loaded some aluminum casings (if they didn't work, I was just going to get rid of them instead of pulling bullets) with the same charge I used for 38sp and topped it with a 230gn soft cast, pc bullet. The chrono said they were in the 1180fps range, but I'm not convinced. Like I said, they didn't cycle the slide (except for one stovepipe), but I did get the glock "bulge" on every case and I've never had that before. Who knows? But it would definitely put holes in stuff in a SHTF situation.

    2) I put one drop of water in some fines I was going to press and let it sit overnight to evenly distribute in the bottle. Then I did the press-release-press method. The original press was over an hour. Then I let the pressure off for several minutes, then pressed it again for more than an hour. I changed two variables at the same time - because... science - so I'm not sure which made the difference. When I did the second pressing, I felt the normal "give" as the pressure came up. That could have been the powder or the press. Then there was only one slight let-off several minutes in. The powder that came out was crunchier and shinier than the other powders so far. I tested it for density - Goex will give me 25 grains in a .45 case, my original powder gave me 22 grains, and this double-pressed gave me 24 grains. Something definitely made it denser.

    3) I made a 100 grahm batch and added 1 grahm of red gum. I put it in a bottle, added 2cc of denatured alcohol, and let it sit overnight. I put it in my die and pressed like normal. I didn't check for density, but it did seem crunchier than the normal stuff. But when I ground it, I got about the same ammount of fines, so no improvement there.

    Well, that's about all I have to add right now. I might start with a few drops of water and double-pressing to get my density up.
    Well, I know I'm "dating myself" here, but as Sergeant Schultz would say... "Veeery Interesting!!"

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  6. #3906
    Boolit Buddy
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    I tested my Paulownia BP today against OE 2f. The results are: I think I need to work on my charcoal or something. My homemade was about 140fps on avg slower and much dirtier.

    The two loads of 10 rounds each were:

    68gr OE 2f
    405gr bullet

    68gr homemade
    405gr bullet

    I was able to shoot the 10 **** OE string without wiping and without any noticeable drop in accuracy.

    After 5 shots of the homemade, it seemed the velocity was increasing and group getting larger, so I wiped the barrel after 6 shots with a single wet patch. There was what seemed like twice the amount of fouling on that patch than the one after shooting 10 rounds of OE without wiping. Then decided to wipe after each shot for the rest and it seemed to be very dirty each wipe.

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    I picked up a quart metal paint can today. I think I'm going to do some small batches to see if I can figure out what I did wrong (if anything) with my charcoal. I also picked up a cedar picket to test.

  7. #3907
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramax55 View Post
    The alcohol/red gum thing got me thinking... there would be no way to control this and it would go away over time, but... what if you had a little alcohol residue in your black powder when loading cartridges? Could it provide some hydrocarbon for a little extra "kick"? Kind of like dieseling a pellet gun?
    Been there done that years ago and what you surmise is exactly how it played - could smell the alky in the powder when it was first made - got some extra oooph (without digging out my chrono book I am guessing around 100fps) - then over time it evaporated out (several months not days) - powder lost its extra, also became crumbly - I ditched the alky idea.

  8. #3908
    Boolit Master
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    HighUintas it looks like your rifle is capable! Now, you've just got a hundred variables to choose from, as to where to go, from here! You're on the right path!

  9. #3909
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Regarding my post on not scaring away newbies. I never meant to imply one should use just any materials. Clearly, I think one should use one of the top 3 or 4 wood types, and quality chemicals. I was hoping that would stand to reason.

    My only point was that it is not necessary to "go down the rabbit holes" that many of us do, searching for "more better whatever".

    Follow Fly's or Indian Joe's proven and simple techniques, use good supplies, and have fun. That's all.

    Vettepilot
    wasnt trying to be nasty - I did say I think I disagree with ya
    Last edited by indian joe; 06-02-2021 at 12:37 AM.

  10. #3910
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    I tested my Paulownia BP today against OE 2f. The results are: I think I need to work on my charcoal or something. My homemade was about 140fps on avg slower and much dirtier.

    The two loads of 10 rounds each were:

    68gr OE 2f
    405gr bullet

    68gr homemade
    405gr bullet

    I was able to shoot the 10 **** OE string without wiping and without any noticeable drop in accuracy.

    After 5 shots of the homemade, it seemed the velocity was increasing and group getting larger, so I wiped the barrel after 6 shots with a single wet patch. There was what seemed like twice the amount of fouling on that patch than the one after shooting 10 rounds of OE without wiping. Then decided to wipe after each shot for the rest and it seemed to be very dirty each wipe.

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    I picked up a quart metal paint can today. I think I'm going to do some small batches to see if I can figure out what I did wrong (if anything) with my charcoal. I also picked up a cedar picket to test.
    If you shot those at 50 its pretty handy, if at 100 its bordering on brilliant - I reckon I see a couple pulled shots and some vertical stringing from barrel heating (or older eyes struggling for focus) on both targets that would near halve your group size.

    I bet you get it better as you "get the hang of things" -----BUT----- realise you set the bar pretty high already - if - your comparison was against Wano (scheutzen) instead of OE your HM would already be in front for velocity and cleaner burn - thats a darn good result in a short time!

  11. #3911
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks, Joe!


    A question for all you guys that use the lead filled copper media: do you know if it's necessary to have the jar half filled using these? I think mine is actually about 1/3 or slightly more than a 1/3 full. My understanding is that you want it half full when using balls to make sure the balls are falling onto themselves during tumbling. When using cylinders , they do more tumbling rather than rolling.

    Anyway, I'm wondering if I need to make a few more cylinders.

  12. #3912
    Boolit Buddy
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    I am using about 1/5 full on a thumbler's tumbler and after ~7 hours it is as fine as talc powder. I believe it is 108 380 cartridge brass that I filled with lead and crimped to hold in place. My container size is ~1/2 gallon.

  13. #3913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayone View Post
    I am using about 1/5 full on a thumbler's tumbler and after ~7 hours it is as fine as talc powder. I believe it is 108 380 cartridge brass that I filled with lead and crimped to hold in place. My container size is ~1/2 gallon.
    That's a great idea. I love the cleverness on here!

  14. #3914
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    Thanks, Joe!


    A question for all you guys that use the lead filled copper media: do you know if it's necessary to have the jar half filled using these? I think mine is actually about 1/3 or slightly more than a 1/3 full. My understanding is that you want it half full when using balls to make sure the balls are falling onto themselves during tumbling. When using cylinders , they do more tumbling rather than rolling.

    Anyway, I'm wondering if I need to make a few more cylinders.
    I just used leftover roundball - cleaned out a bunch of stuff from under the loading bench and then every cast I kept the rejects instead of returning them to the pot - can is about half full - sizes from buckshot to .69cal - stuff is starting to look a bit wore out - aint broke but getting a little tired - I have some linotype I dont need and proly cast a bunch of that into RB for next time. The cylinders sound better but more work too maybe?.

  15. #3915
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    I just used leftover roundball - cleaned out a bunch of stuff from under the loading bench and then every cast I kept the rejects instead of returning them to the pot - can is about half full - sizes from buckshot to .69cal - stuff is starting to look a bit wore out - aint broke but getting a little tired - I have some linotype I dont need and proly cast a bunch of that into RB for next time. The cylinders sound better but more work too maybe?.
    Yup, I'd say if I had a ball mold and some linotype, I'd use that and heat treat it. With the copper cylinders, ya have to smooth out the cut edges, so it might be sixes

  16. #3916
    Boolit Buddy
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    One other question...

    So I was pressing some pucks and altered my sequence to do a 10 minute dwell time, then let up the pressure completely and did that 2 more times.

    I noticed that at least 15g or maybe 30g actually flowed out the bottom of the die sleeve! I could nearly watch it flow while it was under pressure. I'm pressing on top of a thin aluminum pie plate. Has anyone had this issue and what did you do to prevent it? Just a better sealing pressing surface?

  17. #3917
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    One other question...

    So I was pressing some pucks and altered my sequence to do a 10 minute dwell time, then let up the pressure completely and did that 2 more times.

    I noticed that at least 15g or maybe 30g actually flowed out the bottom of the die sleeve! I could nearly watch it flow while it was under pressure. I'm pressing on top of a thin aluminum pie plate. Has anyone had this issue and what did you do to prevent it? Just a better sealing pressing surface?
    I think that is the sponge effect, I've seen. It seems if, after the pressure is lifted, if the powder 'sponges' out the base of the die, when you hit it again, the cylinder of the die is no longer touching the backing plate and path of least resistance is to try to raise the cylinder of the die, while the piston tries to move down. I didn't lose a gram, but it was not right either, and I quit and knocked the puck out of the die, and started over. I use an inch and a half thick steel plate, for a back up. I would think aluminum plate should not be the problem. It's probably those dang laws of Physics, AGAIN!
    Last edited by DoubleBuck; 06-02-2021 at 01:18 AM.

  18. #3918
    Boolit Bub
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    I have a short puck that goes in the bottom of my sleve. I put the puck in the bottom of the sleeve, fill it with powder, put the main piston in top of that, then press it. Powder can't get out that way.

  19. #3919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramax55 View Post
    I have a short puck that goes in the bottom of my sleve. I put the puck in the bottom of the sleeve, fill it with powder, put the main piston in top of that, then press it. Powder can't get out that way.
    20 ton truck jack in a homemade frame, jack underneath, die on top pressing upwards - 3" heavy wall PVC die body - its a neat sliding fit in a 3/8" steel bearing hanger I salvaged off a busted cultivator (so thats a short piece of heavy tube welded to a flat base) - made a neat fitting masonite (underfloor board) bottom plate - so die body in - bottom board plate in - then powder (I think about 100grams per puck) - plastic ice cream can spacers between pucks - fill to the top - aluminium top die - do a preliminary quick press then top it up (one or maybe two more pucks) - lean on it till the jack squeaks - I try to maintain the pressure a bit but am gonna work more on that - leave the pressure on for longer. When its done I take the die body out and use the jack to push the column of pucks out the top of the die body. Sounds complicated but its not really

  20. #3920
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paramax55 View Post
    I have a short puck that goes in the bottom of my sleve. I put the puck in the bottom of the sleeve, fill it with powder, put the main piston in top of that, then press it. Powder can't get out that way.
    Oooh.... I like that!

    Just added to my machining "To Do" list: "Make stepped bottom plug for powder press die." Thanks for the idea!

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check