My homemade black powder

[LAGS]

I have dampened and then pressed the fines with my puck die.
When I had a lot of fines , I would just run the fines in my ball mill for a while to make them more consistent , then repressed them.

[HighUintas]

I have dampened and then pressed the fines with my puck die.
When I had a lot of fines , I would just run the fines in my ball mill for a while to make them more consistent , then repressed them.

I was wondering if there would be any burn characteristic changes doing that. With a 12 ton press, I would think it would all press the same.

I ground a couple of my pucks last night and ended up with about 50% through a 40 mesh. So I need to use some sidecutters or tile nippers next time!

[LAGS]

Many many years ago ,( before I started making my own powder ) I had a cannon but couldn't find any 1f BP.
So I would just buy 3f powder , dampen it and screen it into the 1f that I needed.

[Vettepilot]

I've been wanting to make a cannon for a long time. I'll probably make a 50 cal on the lathe at some point, just 'cause I'm already set to cast 50 cal projectiles, and I think I have some steel stock here that will work. But I'd really like to make one to launch the small size soda cans. The materials for that however, start to get pricey.

Regarding that Mesquite tree, it's very big, very dead, and very close to the house. Home insurance is complaining about it, so it needs to go away fairly soon. Do you think the Mesquite would make usable BP for a cannon?? Reports are that it burns fine, but dirty. That might not be a big deal in a smooth bore cannon, that you swab between shots anyway.... ???

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I think that the Mesquite Charcoal will work fine in a cannon or other smoothbores.
The barrel swabs out really easy between shots.
And I always swabbed my cannon barrel after every shot anyway.
My cannon was 1 1/4" bore.
I didn't shoot many projectiles out of it , because it was in California.
They have Funky Laws , and I had to drive forever to get to a spot safe to fire it.

[HighUintas]

Well, I ground up some more pucks this evening. I used some sidecutters to bust up the pucks this time, resulting in about 46% fines (through on a 40 screen). Ugh... Not sure why that number is so high! After grinding 120g of pucks, I have enough straight 2F to load 8 rounds for my 45-90 haha. If I include the 3F, then maybe 11 or 12 shots.

I also pressed another 4 pucks, this time adding 2 more spritzes of water because I wanted to see where the edge was for too much when pressing. So this time, 5 spritzes on 60g meal in a 9" dish. It was perfect. The ever so slightest 1/4" long line of moisture in the pressing surface. These pucks seemed much harder than the last few, so I wonder if my others were just a tad too dry when pressing and not allowing a good bonding effect, which would cause more fines when granulating.

I did a burn test on my fines, which should be plenty dry because I dried the pucks in a food dehydrator at 145F for 24 hrs and didn't get any measurable weight decrease on the pucks over the last few hours using a 0.1g scale. Well, it was still slower than I imagined it would be. I think I need to compare it to some OE. The most troubling part is that I had a hard time getting it to light! I took a piece of dried twig set aflame to light it and I had to get the flame directly on the powder and it took about a second. I figured it would woosh just with a hot ember. I wonder if my charcoal wasn't cooked quite correctly.... It was definitely cooked all the way through. All black and snapped very easily

[indian joe]

Well, I ground up some more pucks this evening. I used some sidecutters to bust up the pucks this time, resulting in about 46% fines (through on a 40 screen). Ugh... Not sure why that number is so high! After grinding 120g of pucks, I have enough straight 2F to load 8 rounds for my 45-90 haha. If I include the 3F, then maybe 11 or 12 shots.

I also pressed another 4 pucks, this time adding 2 more spritzes of water because I wanted to see where the edge was for too much when pressing. So this time, 5 spritzes on 60g meal in a 9" dish. It was perfect. The ever so slightest 1/4" long line of moisture in the pressing surface. These pucks seemed much harder than the last few, so I wonder if my others were just a tad too dry when pressing and not allowing a good bonding effect, which would cause more fines when granulating.

I did a burn test on my fines, which should be plenty dry because I dried the pucks in a food dehydrator at 145F for 24 hrs and didn't get any measurable weight decrease on the pucks over the last few hours using a 0.1g scale. Well, it was still slower than I imagined it would be. I think I need to compare it to some OE. The most troubling part is that I had a hard time getting it to light! I took a piece of dried twig set aflame to light it and I had to get the flame directly on the powder and it took about a second. I figured it would woosh just with a hot ember. I wonder if my charcoal wasn't cooked quite correctly.... It was definitely cooked all the way through. All black and snapped very easily

If you were testing after work (night time or late evening) and its cool and damp and you are lighting it with a match - yep you need direct contact - ignition temp of BP is what? 365degrees ? surprising how tardy the ignition can be OR how quick it goes on a hot sunny day --- burning in the open air doesnt really do much except waste powder - doesnt tell you much about what will happen in a gun barrel. The serious burn tests the pyro guys did to compare charcoals were done with a projectile over a measured charge - we can do that with a chronograph but thats only part of the story, I want a cleaner burn (less fouling) than commercial stuff as well as at least equal energy from it .

[HighUintas]

If you were testing after work (night time or late evening) and its cool and damp and you are lighting it with a match - yep you need direct contact - ignition temp of BP is what? 365degrees ? surprising how tardy the ignition can be OR how quick it goes on a hot sunny day --- burning in the open air doesnt really do much except waste powder - doesnt tell you much about what will happen in a gun barrel. The serious burn tests the pyro guys did to compare charcoals were done with a projectile over a measured charge - we can do that with a chronograph but thats only part of the story, I want a cleaner burn (less fouling) than commercial stuff as well as at least equal energy from it .

Yes I guess it shouldn't call him burn "tests"... It was not an actual test at all! I just wanted to see how quickly it flash Burns since everyone in the thread had seemed to talk about how quickly it goes up.

You make a very good point, that burning the powder in a line on a piece of paper is nothing like what happens in a chamber and barrel. I guess a reasonable hypothesis for my powder not seeming to burn all that fast, is possibly due to keeping my charring temperature lower for my charcoal and maybe leaving behind more creosote and other resin material that might prevent the powder from igniting as easily and quickly in an unconfined space. Maybe I just made a progressive burning black powder

I unfortunately don't have a Chrono that will work with the octagon barrel and magazine tube on my gun.

[DoubleBuck]

HighUintas, I have tested fines that would barely light, with a stick match, but was actually good powder. Most fines I've tested are slow to light, but my best powder has always lighted very easy. For linear burn rate, I use a 1 inch angle iron four feet long, held in position with a 1 inch channel iron. I built a scraper to make a uniform line of powder and video them, to get frame count, to determine speed. I use white paper, or aluminum foil, to test for cleanliness.
This is a link to Goex SDS sheet, which shows an auto ignition temp. of 392-867°F. So, even their powder has a very wide range of auto ignition temps. https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/up...ack-powder.pdf
An interesting side note is under "Composition" on the first page. By weight, 8-18% charcoal. 9-20% Sulfur and 70-75% KNO3.
I bought a Caldwell Chrono, and so far, it has been my most useful tool, to determine my powders. I set it 10 feet in front of the muzzle. My best powder thus far has been Sassafras, hands down. Both in bullet speed and clean burn. The others I've tested have been, in order of speed and clean; Balsa; Black Willow; Pee Hole Willow (this site won't let me say it's name, but you get the idea) and Weeping Willow. I have two more I'm wanting to test, but I'm under rain delays and necessary projects.
I have seen several people ask or say they wanted to test Mimosa charcoal, and would like to know any results, as I had one winter kill, in my front yard. Ned Gorsky (www.fireworking.com) tested several charcoals, and concluded Plum was both fastest linear burn rate, and longest lift time. Doesn't mention clean, but I also have a dead plum tree, that may be worth testing out. I have seen no one on this site mention Plum.
Good luck with your powder and keep posting your results!

[DoubleBuck]

Has anyone tried putting the fines from grinding and seiving directly back into the puck press? I thought someone had, but I don't remember exactly.

I re-wet my fines, and put them directly back in the press. If it makes any difference, I have not noticed it. I mix it all together. I saw you were experimenting with the amount of water you use. I did too. I have formulated a pretty good water/powder ratio, for my use. If it is above 50% humidity, I put 3/4 gram, CC, or ML, water, to one ounce of powder. If it is below 45% humidity, I use 1 gram water, per ounce, and have had great results, with zero water loss. I've tried to press pucks with no water and had zero luck. They fall to fines, with little or no grain hardness. Even pressed five ounces, while it was raining, and had no luck. I use 50% to 25%, 99% pure Isopropyl. If you notice, a puck swells, as soon as it is released. That reduction of pressure, in my opinion, directly relates to hardness of powder grains. Seems to me, the faster they dry, they harder they remain. That is why as soon as I take a puck off the press, I put it on the dryer. Alcohol speeds that process, a bunch. Like you, I weigh them often, until there is no more weight loss and then a few minutes or hours longer, and then heat the finished powder again, before I can it. I have read that powder can gain moisture weight of as much as 30% and more, from humidity. I believe it. Alcohol may not make powder faster, but it certainly makes it dry faster. Those are my observations, for what it's worth.

[HighUintas]

HighUintas, I have tested fines that would barely light, with a stick match, but was actually good powder. Most fines I've tested are slow to light, but my best powder has always lighted very easy. For linear burn rate, I use a 1 inch angle iron four feet long, held in position with a 1 inch channel iron. I built a scraper to make a uniform line of powder and video them, to get frame count, to determine speed. I use white paper, or aluminum foil, to test for cleanliness.
This is a link to Goex SDS sheet, which shows an auto ignition temp. of 392-867°F. So, even their powder has a very wide range of auto ignition temps. https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/up...ack-powder.pdf
An interesting side note is under "Composition" on the first page. By weight, 8-18% charcoal. 9-20% Sulfur and 70-75% KNO3.
I bought a Caldwell Chrono, and so far, it has been my most useful tool, to determine my powders. I set it 10 feet in front of the muzzle. My best powder thus far has been Sassafras, hands down. Both in bullet speed and clean burn. The others I've tested have been, in order of speed and clean; Balsa; Black Willow; Pee Hole Willow (this site won't let me say it's name, but you get the idea) and Weeping Willow. I have two more I'm wanting to test, but I'm under rain delays and necessary projects.
I have seen several people ask or say they wanted to test Mimosa charcoal, and would like to know any results, as I had one winter kill, in my front yard. Ned Gorsky (www.fireworking.com) tested several charcoals, and concluded Plum was both fastest linear burn rate, and longest lift time. Doesn't mention clean, but I also have a dead plum tree, that may be worth testing out. I have seen no one on this site mention Plum.
Good luck with your powder and keep posting your results!

Sassafras!? That is incredible that's the fastest and cleanest burning charcoal you've tested! I grew up in the Midwest, and making root beer and hot dog roasting sticks from sassafras was always one of my favorite things growing up. I always tell people that's my favorite tree when they ask. I unfortunately haven't seen any sassafras in utah. I'll have to go out to the family farm next time I'm home and gather some!

So I take it you haven't tested Paulownia? That's what I'm using because I have one in my backyard and red that it was supposed to be very fast, but haven't heard anything about how clean it burns. And I haven't seen any mention of it being used or tested in this thread. When I burnt some on a white sheet of paper, it left some burn marks as well as fouling, but I haven't done that same test with oe, so I'm not sure of the cleanliness for comparison. Have you found your speed and cleanliness burn tests translate to the same results and performance in the barrel?

I have thought about attempting to dry out my meal prior to pressing it so that I have a baseline dryness to start, because I figured that the powder may not necessarily be at equilibrium with moisture in the air if I'm keeping it in a sealed plastic container. But I guess keeping track of the humidity and adjusting water added based on that is far easier and would probably produce just as consistent results. Now that I know how many spritzes I need for proper wetting, I'll have to throw it on my good scale to see how much water I've added. I also throw my pucks into the dehydrator as soon as I get them out of the dye and get the thin edges knocked off.

I need to quit trying to do so many things at once so I can do some proper documentation with my experiments rather than doing it more haphazardly and trying to keep the information in my brain

[indian joe]

That was the first thing I tried. It didn't work for me.. they crumbled back into meal when I removed them from the die

didnt work for me neither.

[indian joe]

Has anyone tried putting the fines from grinding and seiving directly back into the puck press? I thought someone had, but I don't remember exactly.

I keep it aside and put it back through the mill - equal amount in each fill when I make the next batch. I am kinda OCD about consistency.

[indian joe]

Yes I guess it shouldn't call him burn "tests"... It was not an actual test at all! I just wanted to see how quickly it flash Burns since everyone in the thread had seemed to talk about how quickly it goes up.

You make a very good point, that burning the powder in a line on a piece of paper is nothing like what happens in a chamber and barrel. I guess a reasonable hypothesis for my powder not seeming to burn all that fast, is possibly due to keeping my charring temperature lower for my charcoal and maybe leaving behind more creosote and other resin material that might prevent the powder from igniting as easily and quickly in an unconfined space. Maybe I just made a progressive burning black powder

I unfortunately don't have a Chrono that will work with the octagon barrel and magazine tube on my gun.

I bought an RCBS chrono - display goes on the bench and its got a 20foot cable to the unit with the screens - old tech I spose - I shoot at 20 foot, had no trouble from it and I didnt want to be fooling with stuff on my phone, do want to see whats going on shot by shot without moving from my bench position and its good for that - cost a bit - a touch over $300 when I got it but was a bit over $100 in the US I think - I winced a bit at the time but not sorry I did it.

[HighUintas]

Update on using exactly the right amount of water when pressing pucks - my pucks were much harder after drying and ended up with 52% as 2f on a 30 screen, 8.5% as 3f on a 40 screen, and 33.6% fines.

Not bad! After getting the puck pieces ran through the grinder twice at it's widest setting, I kept very slightly decreasing the gap for every grinding after seiving. I thought I remembered someone saying this helped their distribution. It probably took me 10-15 grinds total.

[Paramax55]

That was the first thing I tried. It didn't work for me.. they crumbled back into meal when I removed them from the die

I'm not sure why it isn't working for you guys. Maybe I'm pressing harder? I'm using a HF 12 ton press. My jack went bad, so I replaced it with a HF 12 ton jack. I press the powder, putting a good ammount of my 200# on the handle. Then I'll wash my hands and come back to lean on the handle again. I'll go off and do something else while the puck sits for anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. As I think about it, I'll walk over and give the jack another bump. After the first 20 minutes or so, I don't seem to get any more movement from the jack. Pucks come out hard and, after several trips through the grinder, I get about 50/50 3F/fines.

[Paramax55]

Has anyone tried putting the fines from grinding and seiving directly back into the puck press? I thought someone had, but I don't remember exactly.

My fines go right back into the press just as they are. I think my powder is getting more and more dense with each trip through the press. I plan to do some calculations to make sure, but I am certain that the fines press just fine without milling again.

[HighUintas]

I'm not sure why it isn't working for you guys. Maybe I'm pressing harder? I'm using a HF 12 ton press. My jack went bad, so I replaced it with a HF 12 ton jack. I press the powder, putting a good ammount of my 200# on the handle. Then I'll wash my hands and come back to lean on the handle again. I'll go off and do something else while the puck sits for anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. As I think about it, I'll walk over and give the jack another bump. After the first 20 minutes or so, I don't seem to get any more movement from the jack. Pucks come out hard and, after several trips through the grinder, I get about 50/50 3F/fines.

Where do you live? I wonder if your relative humidity is just high enough to do it without extra water addition... That and if you're putting your body weight into the press, that's a lot of pressure. I don't put my weight into it but just a tiny bit since I can see the frame stressing so much just doing that.

[Paramax55]

I'm in Florida and, while we do get humidity (a lot), it's nothing like what a couple spritzes of water would be. I'm goung to dry my next batch if fines on the dash of the car. That gets hot enough to melt casset tapes cown here.Things dry within a day.

As hard as I lean on the press, it does tweak it. But it's designed to take it and it always goes back when I let the pressure off.

[Vettepilot]

My studies indicate that at the proper pressure, supposedly 2700 to 3500 psi, the sulphur plasticizes, and this is what "glues" the powder together and forms a solid mass. At least theoretically, water should not be necessary, though it might help the process. I wonder if commercial powder has a optimum moisture content, verified before pressing??

Comments welcomed!

Vettepilot