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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #3761
    Boolit Master
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    Hmm... Let me know how that works out. From the sounds of it, your media is exactly like mine. I haven't had a chance to tumble mine yet, but suspect I'll encounter the same problem.

    I sat down with my belt sander one day, (and breathing protection), and cleaned off any drips and such, but most of mine are somewhat domed as well.

    Thanks,
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  2. #3762
    Boolit Master
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    Further: I had planned to "tumble clean" mine too, but I'll wait to see how your heat treating works. The more I think about it, heat treating them sounds like a good idea in any case. Now I really wish my attempt to make them out of zinc hadn't accidentally failed!! :~(

    BTW: MAILLEMAKER is using the same media, and has successfully cut down his milling time to 4 hours, with excellent shooting results.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  3. #3763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Further: I had planned to "tumble clean" mine too, but I'll wait to see how your heat treating works. The more I think about it, heat treating them sounds like a good idea in any case. Now I really wish my attempt to make them out of zinc hadn't accidentally failed!! :~(

    BTW: MAILLEMAKER is using the same media, and has successfully cut down his milling time to 4 hours, with excellent shooting results.

    Vettepilot
    I plan to heat treat mine tonight and then test them after a few days. I'll let you know how it works out! I was thinking that if I can reduce the milling time to 5 or 6 hours, I think the debris that would be created in that short amount of time may not be an issue. So if he is not having an issue with let lead powder being formed, I bet it's because he's only milling for 4 hours! With the slow spinning rate of this mill, I probably have to go 50% longer than his, I think. If I can figure out a really simple and easily removable solution for adding something to the drive rods, I'll do that. Then I'm for sure in business!

  4. #3764
    Boolit Buddy
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    Also, in my process of learning to smelt lead and cast in a very cheap, rigged fashion, I created myself a thermoprobe "sheath" for my multimeter thermocouple. I had planned to use that, then saw that it was the bear wire bead type, and realized that aluminum has a higher melting point than lead! I just created an aluminum foil envelope for it and stuck that down into my melted lead. Bam... Had the temp right on 700F

  5. #3765
    Boolit Master
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    Yeah. I have a fairly nice digital thermometer rig that I'm happy with. You can get the "K" type thermocouple pretty cheap on Amazon and such. You just have to be sure to get the ones rated for higher temps.

    I also have two PID setups that I need to fab together. WAY too many projects for my time and energy level here.... BESIDES being disabled, and having a teenage daughter!! (Single father no less...)

    :~(

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  6. #3766
    Boolit Master
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    Oh. Changing the drive roller size makes a pretty good difference for a small size increase. Throw some rubber or vinyl hose on that puppy. Rubber would be best if you can find the right I.D.

    Also, MAILLEMAKER is using a little Harbor Freight mill, with our type media. He got results very close to the equal of Goex. He shoots in contests.

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 05-10-2021 at 09:42 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  7. #3767
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighUintas View Post
    I think this one's barrel is $30 on rocktumbler.com. but still... A PVC barrel would be cheaper than $30.

    I cleaned out the barrel and my media last night. I believe all the powder and other debris is just lead. I used straight wheel weights and some of my media pieces have large domes protruding from the copper pipe because I didn't have great pouring control.

    After thinking about it, the copper is so much harder than. That lead, I'd I'm tumbling for 12 hours, I'll always end up with too much lead in my powder.

    So, I'm going to throw my media in the oven tonight and heat treat those suckers!! Then after 3-4 days, I'll tmble for 12 hours again to check for a difference. Hopefully it works
    My rig has a homemade 6" PVC Drum no baffles inside, dont think you need them BUT have to get the rotation speed right. Dunno how much cheaper (6"end cap, + piece of 6" PVC pipe, + 6" to 4" adapter, + 4" threaded end, + 4" threaded end cap + had to make a wooden filler plug for the 4" neck part, we proly passed $30!) - big PITA finding enough lead balls to charge the thing properly and they are getting tired looking - will need to make new tumbling media next year. plus side, big canister holds a kilo of meal.

  8. #3768
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    Well I got my kid's rock tumbler humming at about 60rpm. I used some 1/2" silicone tubing I have from brewing to put on the drive rollers and then wrapped a bit of electrical tape around the motor pulley to increase that diameter. Bumped it from 36 to 60rpm!

    I gave the heat treated media a test spin even though it wouldn't be fully hardened yet. It definitely is harder and after about an hour there was a lot more copper powder that coated the inside of the barrel than previous tests. I'll give it a full 8 hour test tomorrow.

    Now thinking really hard about whether I should buy a press. I'll be picking up my rifle soon that i had a smith put a 30-284 barrel on... So at some point I think my wife is going to steal my card

  9. #3769
    Boolit Bub
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    I had concerns, too, about my media coming apart. I had to finally decide to just make powder because nobody else has reported a vortex in the space-time continuum. My first couple of batches seemed to show some wear on my media and even a flake or two of lead. After that, the media seemed to settle into it's "groove" and has a sort of protective coating of powder on it that doesn't want to come off when I shake it out in the seive. I'm not worried about it at all any more.

  10. #3770
    Boolit Master
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    Good. No disturbance in "The Force" detected here either, (in my reading/studying.)

    HighUintas:
    How did you do your heat treat, exactly. 400 degrees for an hour, then quench?

    And yeah, haul butt to Harbor Freight before ya lose that card!! For sure, get the 12 ton model. Fake some back pain when unloading it to get out of doing that ball joint job on your car. (Ya gotta know how to handle these women.....)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  11. #3771
    Boolit Master
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    Better to ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permission, (and get denied!)

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  12. #3772
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    VP, if you have a toaster oven with convection setting, or if your kitchen oven has a convection setting, use that. It apparently works better than not.

    I put my wired thermometer in the oven to monitor temperature accurately, because to get them the hardest you want to have them as close to melting point as possible. Of course, it's different depending on alloy. For straight wheel weights, I think it is in the upper 400s or low 500s. So, I put my oven on 475F, waited for preheat, put the media in, then waited for my thermometer to get back up to about 460 and started the timer for an hour. I ended up going about 75 minutes. I don't know how much time matters. I had a bucket of cold water, probably 40F, ready. I pulled them out if the oven and dumped them into the water as quick as possible and let them sit while I did some other stuff.

    Here's where I got my info and guidance.
    http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

  13. #3773
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    I could be wrong on that coww melt point. The listed melt point on that link shows the range I stated, but I think that may ght include his addition of 3% tin.

    The sticky on this website in the lead alloy forum says coww melt point is much higher

  14. #3774
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    I decided to let it rip last night.

    I did a total of a half pound of ingredients in the mill, so about 170g kno3, 34g charocal, and 22.7g sulfur. I m milled it for 7 hours. I added a little bit more tape to the drive pulley and got the speed very close to 65 rpm.

    I did a very quick unscientific burn test on a piece of parchment paper this morning. I put down about a teaspoon and a line about 4 in long and lit it.

    To be honest, it didn't burn quite as quickly as I was expecting. I will have to test it again in a more controlled manner this evening against some of the OE I have. When other people have compared they're homemade powder to commercial right after they have miiled it, are they grinding up the commercial powder so that it's also a powder?

    Also, I don't really want to have to go back through the many pages of this thread to find this information, but what is the most meal that people are able to mill in the single barrel harbor freight tumbler at one time? I'm wondering if I had too much in there. I had my mailing media in the barrel and added my 227 g of ingredients and it looked to be about 4/5 of the way to the top. I know the instructions are to have your container half filled with media and a quarter filled with meal ingredients, but I figured that most of my ingredients are just piled up on top of the media and not getting down into the spaces between the media underneath. I don't know

  15. #3775
    Boolit Bub henryinpanama's Avatar
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    "To be honest, it didn't burn quite as quickly as I was expecting."

    I had the same result. I use an HF tumbler and mill 100 gms for 8 hours or more. I discovered that my powder needed a thorough drying. Once dry, it was very fast. I used an oil filled space heater to dry the powder, but I'm planning to use my wife's greenhouse (no plants) when it warms up.
    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  16. #3776
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryinpanama View Post
    "To be honest, it didn't burn quite as quickly as I was expecting."

    I had the same result. I use an HF tumbler and mill 100 gms for 8 hours or more. I discovered that my powder needed a thorough drying. Once dry, it was very fast. I used an oil filled space heater to dry the powder, but I'm planning to use my wife's greenhouse (no plants) when it warms up.
    I was wondering if that could be the issue. I live in utah and it's pretty dry here, so I wouldn't think humidity would be an issue. It wasn't clumped at all when spooned some out.

    I just found where maillemaker stated he makes his in 100g batches in his harbor freight tumbler.

    So, either my powder isn't quite as dry as I thought or I loaded up the tumbler a little too full. I'll do some testing tonight

  17. #3777
    Boolit Master
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    Go ahead and granulate it, dry it thoroughly, and then test it. What charcoal did you use?

    Be careful when wetting it to granulate. It's real easy to get it too wet, which is not good for it. (KN03 can be affected.)

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 05-13-2021 at 02:22 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  18. #3778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Go ahead and granulate it, dry it thoroughly, and then test it. What charcoal did you use?

    Be careful when wetting it to granulate. It's real easy to get it too wet, which is not good for it. (KN03 can be affected.)

    Vettepilot
    Paulownia! Some charcoal I made in my paint can with thermometer a couple of weeks ago.

  19. #3779
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    I don't think a half pound should be too much in that tumbler, but it probably would be max. The KNO3 is hygroscopic though, and will absorb moisture out of the air, so that could possibly be your problem.

    Additionally, I find that green meal often doesn't burn as fast as granulated or corned due to difficulty in flame propagation through the super fine powder.

    Those that say "because air can't get to it" are incorrect. The powder carries It's own oxygen. Flame propagation through super fine green meal though, can be problematic/slow.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  20. #3780
    Boolit Master
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    Did you use the Thumblers? When I said half pound would be max, I was thinking of the Harbor Freight mill...

    I believe I had your post mentally mixed up with the next fellow's.

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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