My homemade black powder

[almar]

Its for fun! and maybe squirrels.

[Vettepilot]

Its for fun! and maybe squirrels.

Well, maybe little ones...

;~)

I too was interested in the "12 gauge from Hell" when I first heard about it. I don't have anything to shoot it out of though...

Vettepilot

[almar]

Well, maybe little ones...

;~)

I too was interested in the "12 gauge from Hell" when I first heard about it. I don't have anything to shoot it out of though...

Vettepilot

if you have 12 gauge that can take a rifled choke or smooth bore with no choke...you can play with the lower level loads. I have played around with the 12 ga quite a bit.

[greyhawk]

if you have 12 gauge that can take a rifled choke or smooth bore with no choke...you can play with the lower level loads. I have played around with the 12 ga quite a bit.

its amazing what you can do when you dont realise its not sposed to work
maybe 1968 old mate and I bought a rough 12 gauge belgian shotgun from under a gunsmiths bench $5. had the side blown out of one barrel - common among duck hunters - take a stumble, mud up the spout just as a duck flys over - swing, pull, o crap!!!
We decided to saw it off and seeing that would remove all the choke - really wasnt much loss the old gun was pretty loose but was a crossbolt action .
Anyway legal length those days was 16 inches so we went 16 and a quarter to allow for cops with short tape measures - it looked ugly so lopped an inch and a half or so off the butt, still ugly so pruned the forend back as far as possible - ended up a neat little thing until you got close.
So the brains trust was going to clearing sales (farm / yard sales) gathering junk and turned up an ancient 16 gauge round ball mold - about as rough as the gun - we made up some ball - other half of the brains trust had read someplace about shooting round ball in greased patches - first try we dismembered some shot shells - just carved the top off level with the end of the wad collar - loaded the 16 gauge pill down in the plastic wad with a patch made from a 303 cleaning patch smothered in wheel bearing grease - it showed promise so we fitted a 310 martini backsight to the rib (windage and elevation adjustable they were a really well made thing) so with rifle sights, good eyes those days, and a bit of tuning, we ended up with that old clunker shooting a group at 50 yards about four inches high and six across.
could keep each barrel in four inches but not quite regulated side to side - plenty good for piggies
Hard to believe but we didnt know we couldnt do it !!

[Vettepilot]

I have a Winchester 1300 12 ga pump, and an H & R Pardner 12 gauge break action that I dolled all up with a cool stock, added screw in chokes and bought a rifled choke, and silver soldered a Picatinny Rail on top for a red dot. Wish I could find one of those highly touted "Slug Barrels" for it.

That would likely shoot that killer slug...

Vettepilot

[2TM101]

According to other sources, 4ffff powder is screened <40 and >100 mesh. My fines are less than 50 and anything smaller. I don't have a 100 screen.

I have a 60 and a 110 screen. My sizing is

1f >10 > 2f > 20 > 3f > 40 > 4f > 60 > 5f > 110 > Serpentine, Meal D or dust, whatever you want to call it. Still don't know why Amazon sent me a 110 screen instead of a 100 but that's what I got.

I use the 1F in shotguns. I have used 5f in .32 S&W and .38 short colt.

You actually can use fines as powder but if you compress it at all you get a combination BB gun / flamethrower as the burn rate drops dramatically and it turns into rocket fuel. Its interesting to look at the internal design of Handgonne's and matchlocks intended to prevent you from compressing the powder for just this reason. They hadn't figured out how to do Corned powder yet.

[Linstrum]

almar Huh! A one-piece brass 12 gauge shotgun shell. Now that's downright intriguing!

I've worked off-and-on as a machinist since 1967, so, I've done a few things on a lathe between now and then.

From my own experience, machining your 12 gauge shotgun cartridge was not as simple as it looks at first glance. From what I can tell, what might have thrown a monkey wrench into the whole job was the cartridge rim, which would sure get in the way of chucking-up that job in a lathe chuck, changing it from a simple job to a "how do I get around THAT?" Well, you did, along with primer pockets have to be held to fairly close tolerances. Those, and working with a fairly thin wall that could flex when taking too heavy of a cut.

About the 12 gauge shotgun, yeah, getting up in the thousands of foot-pounds energy with a slug, that is among the reasons why the 12 gauge is an economical and attractive up-close defensive weapon, and it can come in a reasonably small package, too. The 12 gauge is an awesome and versatile piece of equipment.

So! Good job on making your brass cartridge!

[almar]

Hi linstrum, I have a 5C collet chuck that made things easier I did the OD’s first and taper, then drilled 5/8’s to depth, then bored it out to 0.73, the thickness at the mouth is pretty thick at 0.30 or so and gets thicker the closer you get to the rim.

It’s a tight fit with my 0.73 slug but not an interference fit. The slug sits on the wad similar to a paper patched bullet does, not crimped, not Interference fit, just snugly, the powder is slighty compressed with a nitro wad and fiber wad over it. After the boring, I remove the long 1 inch stock and cut it in the horizontal saw, giving myself maybe .02 extra rim thickness to allow cleaning it up (yes i tuned that horizontal saw alot to make it cut straight!) The part is then put in my 4 jaw independent chuck and I check and adjust runout to 0.001 max. I face the rim to final thickness, center drill and drill to slightly under 0.39 for a 0.209 primer…I then lap to a tight (but not too tight fit).

I don’t go crazy on the 4 jaw chuck tightness, it brass and I make light cuts just to face the rim maybe 0.005 at a time and drill the hole, regardless, the base of that shell is pretty stiff. I am planning to make another few but with a small pistol primer for a dedicated BP only brass.

The fit of this brass is good in the chamber and likely never gets beyond elastic defornation so it should last forever. Even with smokeless. I just hope it does expand enough in the chamber, it does theoretically with a good margin.

[Vettepilot]

I would turn up an aluminum plug, or spud, to slip fit into the shell for use when chucking the mouth end into the lathe for facing the rim, working on the primer hole, etc. I would also use some annealed copper inserts on lathe jaws to protect the shell when chucking. With this arrangement, you could more securely chuck up the shell without damage.

Of course, they sell ready made brass 12 gauge shells, (Magtech), but at only 2.5" long, they might not be as long as you desire. I have used them to make some very cool looking boolits however.

Vettepilot

[HWooldridge]

FWIW, C260 brass is considered cartridge grade, it's nominally about 70% Cu and 30% Zn. With that said, C360 is easier to machine so should perform better in a lathe application.

I work in a machine shop and we got an R&D order a couple years ago for some 9mm heads made from both aluminum and stainless steel. They had a groove cut above just above where the primer height ended, then the end customer swaged a SS sleeve onto the head at the groove. The sleeve was just a piece of seamless tubing, which created a visible line but apparently held the discharge pressure. I seem to recall they were experimenting with this during the last ammo shortage because deep-draw cartridge brass was scarce. I don't know if they continued with the effort or not - we only received the one order.

[Nobade]

If you wanted to make 12ga FH cases, the original way was to start with 50 BMG, turn and thread the head, and make a replica of a 12ga rim that would thread onto the case. Then fireform it straight, and either use full length or trim to fit whatever chamber you have. So you end up with a 4 inch long 12ga case that will hold 60,000 psi.

[almar]

That would likely be alot cheaper to make, love it! The setup might be a bit more difficult though. Any pics of that? Or details? They threaded the outside of the head? Another thing likely to make me opt out of this option is the cost of bmg primers...astronomical. I apologize for hijaking the thread a bit, the brass was just a sidenote...just thought the use of my homemade powder in this would be an interesting thing to mention as it makes it way more economical...200 gr at a time uses up a lb quick.

[Nobade]

I've seen pics but it's been a long time ago. Once a good way to hold the case was made, like a Wilson case trimmer, it would be a super easy job on a cnc lathe. BMG primers are expensive but how many of those would a person want to fire anyway?

[DoubleBuck]

Happy Thanksgiving tomorrow everybody! I have a lot of things to be thankful for, and this thread is one of them. A special thanks to all the Veterans and Civil Servants.
Be safe if you travel the roadways and don't eat too much! It'll make you fat!
Carry on!

[HamGunner]

I hope all you smoke pole enthusiasts's turkeys do not go up in smoke. Have a great Thanksgiving.

[Brimstone]

Happy Thanksgiving

[almar]

I'm good for turkey and carbs for the next year, i duplexed the 12 ga with 15 grains of Reloader 7 and 250 grains of my 1.5 F willow BP and got 1691 feet per second with a 875 grain bullet, this is 5555.5 ftlbs of energy with mostly black powder. Fowling was almost nothing (likely due to the duplex), pressure was not an issue, case came out easy like normal no primer flattening. This is the most energy ive seen in a BP hand held cartridge so far. The recoil was significant but fun. Im sure this will work on that pesky squirrel.

[Vettepilot]

Hey Almar, if any squirrel catches that round and throws it back... RUN!!

;~)

Any pics of your doings?

I'm trying to figure a good way to perform a heavy roll crimp on some boolits I want to make using Magtech brass hulls. Ideas anyone? I've got some of the cool Fury jacketed lead bullets I want to load into the brass hulls, but need to machine up something to do a roll crimp. Ideas?

I would love something like Lee's factory crimp die, but I'm only going to do a few of these so I am not going to make something that complicated. I need something quick and simple. I have a lathe and mill to use...

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I made a roll crimper out of a flat piece of 1/4” thick steel with a hole drilled into it that fit the slug.
And a recess that fit the case diameter.
I just placed it on the top of the case and tapped the steel with a mallet.
I wasn’t doing that many loads to use that crimper, but it did my job

[2TM101]

I'm good for turkey and carbs for the next year, i duplexed the 12 ga with 15 grains of Reloader 7 and 250 grains of my 1.5 F willow BP and got 1691 feet per second with a 875 grain bullet, this is 5555.5 ftlbs of energy with mostly black powder. Fowling was almost nothing (likely due to the duplex), pressure was not an issue, case came out easy like normal no primer flattening. This is the most energy ive seen in a BP hand held cartridge so far. The recoil was significant but fun. Im sure this will work on that pesky squirrel.

This is the first instance I have seen of this being done with a shotgun. I do loads with 100gr of my powder and 250 grains of BP seems like a lot all by itself. From what I have seen 250 grains would fill up the case to the point where you don't have space for any wads at all - which is ok if you are loading a slug I suppose.

But wow - thats barely getting one box out of a whole pound of powder.