My homemade black powder

[ChrisPer]

Seeing I am not actually loading cartridge almar, I am not actually that fussed over density now; it was something I put a lot of thought and effort into before. Now I have to go chrony the final product. It shoots great though! I just wonder a bit about moisture. I thnk my dehydrator only pulls it from 6% back to perhaps 3%. I wonder what performance would do if I reduced it further?
I am doing that blending forward though indian joe! I polished all my last few batches together, sieved and graphited them as one.

[Vettepilot]

No polishing at my place - no graphiting
I've been shooting ungraphited powder (by choice) for 30 years - so am well used to the extra care required in measuring

Yeah. How much extra care does it take?? Not much really. No polishing nor graphite here...

Vettepilot

[almar]

Did you say that you compress to a solid plug??? Why bother corning or even screening then just use the powder out of the mill maybe?
I compress to a max of 0.12 inches under a polywad after a 2 foot drop tube, none of the granules are destroyed...i compress each puck to the same density and screen the powder to get a close granule size what in the world is the purpose of doing that if i would be cramming all that in the case into a solid puck?? The old BP cases are volume specific for BP powder, the benefit of using weight is to ensure precision from case to case not to reach a target charge weight. please clarify.

[almar]

I'm not berating here or calling anyone a fool. You've been very helpful to everyone here, always answer questions and been doing this for a long time, so i certainly wouldn't do that to you. We do this for leisure in the end, whatever rock your boat as they say. I am just curious about how you get same results with different density values when mine are very different. Not just with compression of the puck but compression in the case as well. With this more oily low cook temp charcoal that i use, i can get very high density past 2g/cc but it doesn't shoot as well and is as clean as low density with the same charcoal. I'm going to be a little rough sometimes in my questioning that's just how pull the worms so to speak.

I have a pressure gauge for the press but although its an accurate tool, measuring pressure or downforce during the puck making isn't a very accurate way to predict the pucks final density because the amount of pressure required to obtain a given density will vary with the moisture content. So from batch to batch if the exact moisture content of the powder is an unknown (almost impossible to know really) or even if your charcoal is different, then its not useful to know the pressure or downforce. I just weigh the powder that i am putting in the puck die and compress down to the same mark as well as i can every time. I make several disks at a time with separators.

Black powder is a simple thing wrapped up in many layer of complicated stuff if we let it. Once you've taken off the layers and really get it, its like making bread, Simple ingredients, right technique. We just have to remember to enjoy it in the end. I have a many things to tend to right now, termite problem in the barn, sick chickens and bugs eating my sweet potatoes...always something to do. BP is a fall and winter thing for me.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I've repeated this so many times but i guess that people will just end up doing what they feel like doing in the end. Lower density will give you better burn, higher velocity and less fouling. I tested this thoroughly and so did Waltham abbey, its right there in their report. Higher density will give you only one thing as a plus, better grain strength. A better grain strength will be better for transporting where a lower density powder will become dusty after a lot of shaking about. Accuracy is key so whatever you decide to settle on for density make sure its the same every time. If you make your powder well from A to Z with good ingredients and technique the same volume of lower density powder should give you better results than commercial powder every time. If it doesn't, you messed up somewhere so go back and study your data.

My testing shows much the same. However, with 3% Soluble Glutenous Rice Starch my screened powder is hard as a rock. I would dare anyone to try and crush my grains with their fingers. I've tried many other binders and this is the run away king. My secret is adding a little too much water to get everything good and activated then letting it dry for a few hours before screening. A good kneading like making pizza dough helps too.

[Vettepilot]

My testing shows much the same. However, with 3% Soluble Glutenous Rice Starch my screened powder is hard as a rock. I would dare anyone to try and crush my grains with their fingers. I've tried many other binders and this is the run away king. My secret is adding a little too much water to get everything good and activated then letting it dry for a few hours before screening. A good kneading like making pizza dough helps too.

Oh yeah. That Rice Starch is absolutely "The Bomb" for a binder. I once had a small batch of 1f/2f screened powder that I decided just for grins to convert to 3f by crushing it. I spread it out on a hard surface, and went over it with a rolling pin. This would just turn some powders to dust. But this batch made with 2% rice starch was very, very hard to break down, even using a rolling pin!!

Regarding the premise of a black powder cartridge load and compression, I too have read numerous times of old, original loads being disassembled and revealing a nearly solid plug inside. I think the grainular structure however would still exist somewhat in the solid plug, aiding in heat transfer and burn. Think of it as a porous "plug", and not a solid plug such as from epoxy or some such. Also, consider the various solid BP "pellets" made by Pyrodex and others. (Yes, I know they are not chemically the same, but normally, the product is still granular.)

In any case, Indian Joe's methods produce exceptional overall performance, and under 10 fps consistency, so I for one, pay close attention when he speaks... (as well as to Almar.)

Vettepilot

[almar]

My testing shows much the same. However, with 3% Soluble Glutenous Rice Starch my screened powder is hard as a rock. I would dare anyone to try and crush my grains with their fingers. I've tried many other binders and this is the run away king. My secret is adding a little too much water to get everything good and activated then letting it dry for a few hours before screening. A good kneading like making pizza dough helps too.

rice starch huh? that's interesting, I'm looking for binders right now for primer reloading. I so far like gum Arabica but i never did try rice starch.

[Vettepilot]

rice starch huh? that's interesting, I'm looking for binders right now for primer reloading. I so far like gum Arabica but i never did try rice starch.

Well it surely works for BP Almar.

More info:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...44861719314808

I don't know the differences between the nomenclatures you'll encounter such as "rice flour" etc., but what I use with such success is called "MGRS". "Modified Glutinous Rice Starch." But isn't shellac, an oil based substance usually dissolved in alcohol, used in primer manufacturer?

Vettepilot

[almar]

shellack seems to neutralize a primer sometimes, alot of the primer patents seem to call for gum arabica or gum tragacanth. This new nano thermite non corrosive, non toxic lead free primer I'm working on is very picky about binders so I'm looking for one that keeps it reliable and makes it bind well.

[Vettepilot]

Ah, I see.

How will shelf life be with your formulation? I've heard that was the problem with current lead-free primer offerings.

God, wouldn't that be a beech?? Go to the hassle of making primers, load up several hundred rounds, and find out a year later they're dead. What a bummer.

Vettepilot

[Super Sneaky Steve]

The stuff I use came as a powder.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Vettepilot]

Yeah, mine too though I can't remember now where I got it. Old age ya know... They say the memory is the second thing to go.

Note that I started to have powder clumping issues in the mill that I believe I traced to adding the MSGS at the start. I think the best way is to mill without the binder, then add it for the last hour. If I'm correct, that should work just fine though I haven't tested again yet as it's far, far too hot to work outside here now.

Vettepilot

[almar]

Ah, I see.

How will shelf life be with your formulation? I've heard that was the problem with current lead-free primer offerings.

God, wouldn't that be a beech?? Go to the hassle of making primers, load up several hundred rounds, and find out a year later they're dead. What a bummer.

Vettepilot

Yes indeed, They are not known to have a great shelf life without a stabilizer of some kind. No stockpiling this stuff, its load and shoot. You cant beat lead based primers for reliability, its why they are still used.

[Milky Duck]

read the bristler link...eric brisler handgomme will get it on google search....
I can get 65grns of home rolled,non compressed BP INTO A 45/70 case with a little tamping or poking it in through funnel...7grns smokeless under 50grns BP is even easier to fit in.
my way of thinking about the compression inside case...its making the raw ingrediants NO MORE compressed than commercial stuff would be in pressed into pucks.....I weigh charges so the difference in bulk density doesnt matter....
in a front stuffer the only difference a different bulk density would make if charges were weighed would be the boolit position in barrel...with lower bulk density it would be ever so slightly closer to muzzle...think ping pong ball vs golf ball,same size different weight.....
one thing for sure...its fun to make,and cheap to shoot...hmm isnt that half the reason for cast boolits too????

[Milky Duck]

the trick to charcoal.....coffee tin,small hole in lid,wood inside on top of LPG/PROPANE BBQ cook it till starts to smoke then light the smoke/gas coming out of hole..it will burn for half n hour of more ,when it stops burning or flame decreases..turn off heat and you have your charcoal....

[ChrisPer]

damping meal for pucks
I wear nitrile gloves and hand rub the misted water into the meal, 6% by weighing the squirt bottle until I have dispensed 60ml per Kg. Just like rubbing butter into rock cake mix.

but the actual making (for me) is work - dirty - time consuming
I found my last batch was really different. It was easy and fast. I think the tension of not knowing what I am doing and fear of failure are gone and that makes it very light work indeed.

[DoubleBuck]

I dry my ingredients before and after milling. Especially if the relative humidity is above 45%; which it is very often, where I live.
I usually add from 1/2 to 3/4 grams (CC, or ML) of water to one ounce of meal. The calculator says 3/4 of a gram should be 2.7% moisture for an ounce. I think the humidity factor adds a couple of percent to that. 4% moisture should be near max for pucks, from what I've read; with 3% being optimal. I like my powder to just have a haze of moisture where the die sets. Not enough to squeeze a drop out, at 1.6-1.7 G/CC density. I can make three ounces at a time, but prefer to make one, if I have the time and patience.
I use little Dixie cups to mix for the press. They hold an ounce very comfortably and are easy to incorporate the water uniformly with a wooden dowel. If I have great moisture control, I find I have nearly perfect pucks which are hard and produce strong grains. I dry my pucks before breaking up.
After breaking up the pucks and grading the powder, I heat it, before canning it. I try to get it to around 250°F. before funneling into my containers. This was canned on 10/31/2020. The heated powder collapsed the can, when it cooled, holding the powder on a vacuum and dry as a bone. Of course when you break the seal, the moisture battle is on.

[DoubleBuck]

I came into a great little retort, I think. It is a 5-6 gallon steel pail, with a locking lid. Heavy duty, used for bolts nuts etc., on metal building job sites.
The wood is Spring cut Sassafras, from April. I think this retort will hold it all and I'm going to make one big charcoal cook and hope I can make my best powder from it. The wood has been baked dry in my shop all summer at temps of 130° often. It should make a nice batch.
If it does turn out good, and anybody would like some, I will hook you up. It will make more charcoal than I will probably ever use. The jar is full of nothing but Cambium layer. I have wondered about it's charcoal making ability, because that is where a major portion of volatiles are. Maybe dirty, and maybe no good, but I'm going to find out.

[Vettepilot]

I still keep wondering about using a vacuum chamber to dry the pucks, powder, and/or ingredients. I kinda want a vacuum chamber to entertain my daughter and I, (blow up marshmallows, etc.), anyway, so I'll probably make one at some point and test it.

The evaporation under vacuum will cool the substance, but adding a bit of time under vacuum should accomodate that. Or else if need be, I could warm the base of the chamber...

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

I came into a great little retort, I think. It is a 5-6 gallon steel pail, with a locking lid. Heavy duty, used for bolts nuts etc., on metal building job sites.
The wood is Spring cut Sassafras, from April. I think this retort will hold it all and I'm going to make one big charcoal cook and hope I can make my best powder from it. The wood has been baked dry in my shop all summer at temps of 130° often. It should make a nice batch.
If it does turn out good, and anybody would like some, I will hook you up. It will make more charcoal than I will probably ever use. The jar is full of nothing but Cambium layer. I have wondered about it's charcoal making ability, because that is where a major portion of volatiles are. Maybe dirty, and maybe no good, but I'm going to find out.

I just love it when I find a common, everday item that I can incorporate into my hobby! (And that doesn't cost a bunch like hobby specific items always do!!) Don't you?

Vettepilot