My homemade black powder

[almar]

To this capacity, i use only a nitro wad and compress to fit the bullet to the crimp groove.

[Vettepilot]

I wonder about pressure for that loading??

Vettepilot

[almar]

well its hard to estimate, but for this rifle and thinner brass, others have managed much more with smokeless. Big bore media on yt pushed to over 7000 ftlbs in this rifle with smokeless and a copper projectile.

[almar]

Hey Almar, if any squirrel catches that round and throws it back... RUN!!

;~)


Any pics of your doings?

I'm trying to figure a good way to perform a heavy roll crimp on some boolits I want to make using Magtech brass hulls. Ideas anyone? I've got some of the cool Fury jacketed lead bullets I want to load into the brass hulls, but need to machine up something to do a roll crimp. Ideas?

I would love something like Lee's factory crimp die, but I'm only going to do a few of these so I am not going to make something that complicated. I need something quick and simple. I have a lathe and mill to use...

Vettepilot

If it catches that bullit im definetly running!
Rcbs sells a 12 ga die for those but if you order a threaded rod to 7/8-14 you could make a taper crimp die...i made a bunch of things for my presses with that

[Vettepilot]

That's probably what I will use/do. I too have used 7/8 bolts in the past. Jeez, they ain't cheap. I probably should order up some all thread in that size to have on hand.

Cool bullet. Does it feel like you're on Safari when using them?

;~)

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

its amazing what you can do when you dont realise its not sposed to work
maybe 1968 old mate and I bought a rough 12 gauge belgian shotgun from under a gunsmiths bench $5. had the side blown out of one barrel - common among duck hunters - take a stumble, mud up the spout just as a duck flys over - swing, pull, o crap!!!
We decided to saw it off and seeing that would remove all the choke - really wasnt much loss the old gun was pretty loose but was a crossbolt action .
Anyway legal length those days was 16 inches so we went 16 and a quarter to allow for cops with short tape measures - it looked ugly so lopped an inch and a half or so off the butt, still ugly so pruned the forend back as far as possible - ended up a neat little thing until you got close.
So the brains trust was going to clearing sales (farm / yard sales) gathering junk and turned up an ancient 16 gauge round ball mold - about as rough as the gun - we made up some ball - other half of the brains trust had read someplace about shooting round ball in greased patches - first try we dismembered some shot shells - just carved the top off level with the end of the wad collar - loaded the 16 gauge pill down in the plastic wad with a patch made from a 303 cleaning patch smothered in wheel bearing grease - it showed promise so we fitted a 310 martini backsight to the rib (windage and elevation adjustable they were a really well made thing) so with rifle sights, good eyes those days, and a bit of tuning, we ended up with that old clunker shooting a group at 50 yards about four inches high and six across.
could keep each barrel in four inches but not quite regulated side to side - plenty good for piggies
Hard to believe but we didnt know we couldnt do it !!

Just FYI for future, what you had there was a highly illegal "short barrel shotgun". The NFA rules are 18" minimum length barrel for a shotgun. 16" minimum length is for rifles only. If someone you know still has that gun, you should let them know, as busting the NFA is a huge fine and jail deal.

That NFA crap pisses me off, as I would like to make a "Snake Charmer" shotgun pistol. You can't have one without rifling as it's NFA. Ridiculous rule from the gangster days. It should all be repealed...

Here, here!!

;~)

Vettepilot

[HamGunner]

Just FYI for future, what you had there was a highly illegal "short barrel shotgun". The NFA rules are 18" minimum length barrel for a shotgun. 16" minimum length is for rifles only. If someone you know still has that gun, you should let them know, as busting the NFA is a huge fine and jail deal.Vettepilot

If I remember correctly, Greyhawk is from Down Under.

[almar]

That's probably what I will use/do. I too have used 7/8 bolts in the past. Jeez, they ain't cheap. I probably should order up some all thread in that size to have on hand.

Cool bullet. Does it feel like you're on Safari when using them?

;~)

Vettepilot

Its a bit much to be honest, ill probably load it down. Come to think of it, the 7/8 -14 will likely be too small to make a crimp die for the magtecs

[LAGS]

I did use Sockets to crimp some cases or pipes.
Just use a deep socket that fits the neck of the casing, and either a 6 or 12 point socket with a bevel on the entrance to do the smushing or rolling of the neck or a tubing.
I got the idea of using sockets from the Lee Hand Die sets that I have.

[indian joe]

If I remember correctly, Greyhawk is from Down Under.

yeah it was 1969 when we did that it - was legal at the time - we did our homework before we started sawing.

handed it in when they brought in registration / buyback in the late 1990s

cheap rattly old Belgian gun - no loss - we had our fun with it

I want to be able to shoot at clubs / competition anytime I feel inclined, so no dodgy stuff . I got better things to do than be lookin over me shoulder for the fuzz

[Vettepilot]

Its a bit much to be honest, ill probably load it down. Come to think of it, the 7/8 -14 will likely be too small to make a crimp die for the magtecs

You are using black powder, right? I load 85 grains when I load black powder shotshells. Some only load 60 or 65. Those seem weak.

My 50 cal uses 100 to 150 grains, but a lighter projectile than we're speaking of here of course...

Vettepilot

[almar]

Yes Black powder. I wouldn't use these in a normal shotgun, the H&R ultra slug is a specially built one. I got one to about 6000 ftlbs yesterday and now my brass is starting to show expansion. I modeled a cartridge in quick loads with CFE 223 and i can get this to over 8000 ftlbs without going over 25K psi which is the recommended max in this firearm but im calling it quits here for now because ive got a massive bruise telling me i should. The recoil was like getting into a car crash where you need a second or two to settle. I have a 1275 grain mould on the way and some 50 bmg brass.

[DoubleBuck]

Almar;
I'm nearly totally clueless to what you are doing, although I spent some time reading about it. It's pretty rang dang interesting, but I do have a couple of questions.
When you say the brass is expanding, does that mean it is not fit to the chamber, and is expanding in diameter, or in length? Or both?
And, when you say the pressures, are those at the muzzle? And, are you able to actually measure the pressure, or going by bullet weight/velocity some way? You mentioned the other day, about doing it, but I didn't understand it then, and still don't.
I'm satisfied these are first grade questions and I apologize for my ignorance.
BUT, you need to post a picture of that stinking gun, and a picture of your shoulder; to remind me to not go any further, in pursuit of this particular masochistic lifestyle!
Another question. Are you still making your charcoal the same way of that you sent me? Still using the same wood and process? Have you settled on a recipe? Have you settled on grain sizes and density, for your pistol?
Kick it back.

[Vettepilot]

Wow. Serious stuff. And interesting.

I must resist though. I've got bad back problems. Two surgeries and probably another one pending.

While I inherently love insane power in any form, this would likely paralyze me!!

Good luck with it, and keep us posted.

Vettepilot

[almar]

Almar;
I'm nearly totally clueless to what you are doing, although I spent some time reading about it. It's pretty rang dang interesting, but I do have a couple of questions.
When you say the brass is expanding, does that mean it is not fit to the chamber, and is expanding in diameter, or in length? Or both? Its filling the chamber diametrically like most rounds do, up to about 4500-5000 ftlbs, i didnt notice any expansion however i did not pull out the micrometers.
And, when you say the pressures, are those at the muzzle? no in the chamber, and they are estimated. And, are you able to actually measure the pressure, or going by bullet weight/velocity some way? You mentioned the other day, about doing it, but I didn't understand it then, and still don't. I use software (GRT) and best guess.
I'm satisfied these are first grade questions and I apologize for my ignorance. not at all
BUT, you need to post a picture of that stinking gun, and a picture of your shoulder; to remind me to not go any further, in pursuit of this particular masochistic lifestyle! I will try when i get some time later this week, the bruise is on my bicep for some reason, although i know how to shoot a rifle and the force was on my shoulder. It just a standard HR ultra that i added lead to the stock and weighs 11 lbs
Another question. Are you still making your charcoal the same way of that you sent me? Still using the same wood and process? Have you settled on a recipe? Have you settled on grain sizes and density, for your pistol?
Kick it back.

Im still using the BP i made back then and charcoal, I would likely raise the temperature a bit to 580 or so and leave it in longer if i made some today. I tried BP made with toilet paper but the speeds were not as good and was very different when it came to making into pucks, (alot more pressure required). I still have that sassafras you sent me and will use again the next time i make charcoal, I'm sure now that most of the performance comes from milling it right and density. With the price of smokeless these days, it's more than useful to know how to make your own propellants, i would certainly be turned off by using 200 grains of smokeless in these when BP costs me maybe 3$ or so per pound to make with my ingredients i bought in bulk back then. The 6000 ftlbs load i made used 280 gr of 1.5 F and 18 gr of REL 7, I think that too much rel 7 even for this round. I will likely settle somewhere in the 10 gr area and use 280 gr of 1.5 F with the 875 gr bullet, it don't know yet about the 1275 gr bullet...believe it or not though, these cost me less to make than my 6mm arc cartridges for my bolt action varmint killer, the 6mm arc is tiny. I still am figuring out how to turn those 50 bmg cartridges into something useful here, i will likely reload the 50 bmg primer with epm8 compound and somehow attach a rim to the brass...

[DoubleBuck]

Thank you Almar
I know you were making some killer charcoal. I bet you have only improved, in the last couple of years or however long it has been.
Good luck with your venture and carry on!