My homemade black powder

[almar]

Not sure if this was mentioned before or not. But if you plan on making bp for a while, i would start thinking about stocking up on potassium.

[mmb617]

Not sure if this was mentioned before or not. But if you plan on making bp for a while, i would start thinking about stocking up on potassium.

I have thought about that. In light of how often a wide variety of items become unobtainable every day anymore I've been considering what I'd need to have a lifetime supply of components. I made a few assumptions in my calculations. First that a lifetime supply would be enough to last 10 years for me. That's stretching it a bit according to actuarial tables. Second that I'd keep shooting at my present rate which averages about 300 shots per month. This should give me a cushion since even if I'm still alive 10 years from now I may not be shooting and almost certainly won't be shooting as much. With that in mind I looked at each component.

Charcoal - This one is easy. Since I make my own and have a virtually unlimited supply of cedar I've already stockpiled 3-4 years worth of the wood and don't anticipate any problem attaining enough to meet the goal.

Potassium Nitrate - This is the one I think is most likely to be a problem in the future. It's easy to find in a 99% pure state right now but it's not hard to see how that could change. At 300 shots per month I use 25 lbs of powder a year which requires 19 lbs of KNO3, so I'd need 190 lbs for my lifetime supply. That's possible to accumulate and I've started buying 10 lbs at a time regularly.

Sulfur - So common it's probably going to continue to be available but maybe hard to find pure enough in the future. I only need about 2 1/2 lbs per year or 25 lbs total so that's also quite doable, and I've started stockpiling that too.

Lead - This one could be a problem as I know several environmental groups would like to see all lead sales severely regulated. Using 90 lbs per year I'd need 900 lbs on hand to reach my goal and that's going to be hard to obtain. I'll work at it though. Maybe some day I'll stumble across a chance to get some in bulk at a good price as some members here have done.

[almar]

I have thought about that. In light of how often a wide variety of items become unobtainable every day anymore I've been considering what I'd need to have a lifetime supply of components. I made a few assumptions in my calculations. First that a lifetime supply would be enough to last 10 years for me. That's stretching it a bit according to actuarial tables. Second that I'd keep shooting at my present rate which averages about 300 shots per month. This should give me a cushion since even if I'm still alive 10 years from now I may not be shooting and almost certainly won't be shooting as much. With that in mind I looked at each component.

Charcoal - This one is easy. Since I make my own and have a virtually unlimited supply of cedar I've already stockpiled 3-4 years worth of the wood and don't anticipate any problem attaining enough to meet the goal.

Potassium Nitrate - This is the one I think is most likely to be a problem in the future. It's easy to find in a 99% pure state right now but it's not hard to see how that could change. At 300 shots per month I use 25 lbs of powder a year which requires 19 lbs of KNO3, so I'd need 190 lbs for my lifetime supply. That's possible to accumulate and I've started buying 10 lbs at a time regularly.

Sulfur - So common it's probably going to continue to be available but maybe hard to find pure enough in the future. I only need about 2 1/2 lbs per year or 25 lbs total so that's also quite doable, and I've started stockpiling that too.

Lead - This one could be a problem as I know several environmental groups would like to see all lead sales severely regulated. Using 90 lbs per year I'd need 900 lbs on hand to reach my goal and that's going to be hard to obtain. I'll work at it though. Maybe some day I'll stumble across a chance to get some in bulk at a good price as some members here have done.

Well thought out reply. My suggestion was based on how our Russian sanctions and the Ukranian problems are making the cost of these chemicals and fertilizers to rise dramatically.

[Vettepilot]

That's interesting about the Aspen.

I've been using Cedar lately, but have a batch made from Aspen to test. I made it from a bag of Aspen smoke chips I ran across at a yard sale. It burns quite well in a "flash test"; seems to be faster/cleaner than the Cedar based powder. I had troubles with my chrono that I think I've now gotten resolved, so I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but hopefully soon.

Be careful about buying large quantities of KNO3. (Watchlists...)

Vettepilot

[Trapper-Jack]

This is quite interesting. Your testing of Cedar against your Aspen results indicate the same as mine when I shot my powder made from Cedar against Willow. The Cedar doesn't appear to have the energy of the other two. My Cedar also is dirtier than my Willow. Now I'll have to make some powder from Aspen and test it against my Willow. Great test and great comparison! Thanks.

[DoubleBuck]

On the KNO3 availability;
This afternoon, I called my local Seed, Feed and Fertilizer dealer. They were sold out and his distributor was also sold out. They have Potassium and they have Nitrate, both Ammonium and Urea. I'm not a chemist, and don't know if you can simply mix the two, or not. But, if you have a local Fertilizer dealer and are in need, it might be worth calling to see if it is available, in your particular area. My buddy told me that fertilizer is going stupid in price and is nearly all unavailable (to him). He says he doesn't have a clue what the farmers in the area are going to do. This is a serious deal and of course, predicted to get worse. In April I'm going to be needing 6,000 pounds, myself.
When he told me this, I went to Seed Ranch and ordered 20 pounds, just to insure the hardest to get ingredient is available if and when I need it. It had free UPS shipping and no tax and cost me $57.77. The last sack I bought had a guaranteed analysis of 99.8% pure. I don't see me ever needing it, because I have a dab now, but I should be stocked up.
Thanks on the heads up. I should have been more up on it, and knew things were short, but I tend to procrastinate...

[Nobade]

I just checked and Phil's General Store still has plenty in stock. That's where I get mine, good service and prices. And plenty of other pyro stuff as well. ihaveadotcom.com

[mmb617]

Hey DoubleBuck, thanks for the heads up about ordering from the Seed Ranch. I've been getting my KNO3 through Walmart, but it comes from the Seed Ranch. I don't know why I didn't think about just ordering it direct, but I didn't. Buying it through Walmart it cost me $34.93 total for 10 lbs. I just ordered 50 lbs from Seed Ranch for $97.77 total so that's a substantial savings and I'm in good shape now for years.

[mmb617]

Be careful about buying large quantities of KNO3. (Watchlists...)

Vettepilot

As a member of multiple forums dedicated to both black powder and modern firearms, including the dreaded AR15's, it's probably too late for me to avoid any watchlists. They can watch all they want. I actually support strong law enforcement, at least when said laws are not in conflict with the Constitution.

[HamGunner]

Months ago, when fertilizer prices started soaring out of sight, I also thought about stocking up before things get crazier than they already are. I placed an order for more bags of Potassium Nitrate from:

https://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=10pn

It took a few weeks to get my order, but the price is right and it is 99.8% pure. I buy it in prill form and it is a bit more work to grind down, but the prill is easy enough to store. They still have it in stock today at around $20/10 lb. bag. They also have very pure grade Sulfur as well.

[DoubleBuck]

If you can buy high purity Nitrate, at a reasonable cost, I think it is worth doing. The Greenhouse grade I have bought to make BP has been from 98.8 to 99.8% purity, and I have considered the price within reason. But, I also normally have 98.8% purity prilled KNO3 available in bulk. Prilled Nitrate has a binder in it, to make it hard grained and easier to mix and dispense from farm equipment. I know how to purify it and should my stash run low, will certainly do it. The price HAS been about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of buying on line. That was why I suggested looking at local fertilizer dealers. At this point it may be mute. If farmers can't buy fertilizer, food will follow suit, very quickly. You want to see a pandemic, wait until a hundred million Americans can't eat. Here come da judge.

[HamGunner]

I just recently bought a small bag of lawn fertilizer (I think it was 40 lbs.) and it cost me over $30. I know farmers should still be able to get it cheaper than that in bulk. The last time I bought fertilizer for my hay fields, (2018) before I stopped farming, I paid $500/ton. I thought that it was high then, but that was very cheap compared to today's prices. Today it is closer to $1,500/ton for nitrogen. Likely at least $1,000/ton for most mixes. No way farmers will be able to make money buying tons of fertilizer this year unless they can get a huge increase for their products. If they can somehow manage to do so, the price to the purchasers of the end products (which is us) will find that price to be out of sight. Get ready to tighten up your belts a notch or three and stock up on Potassium Nitrate while you can afford it.

[ChrisPer]

I just had another crack at polishing my finished powder. I have the second half of my stock in the tumbler but the first half was very interesting.

Previous attempt: 2 hrs polishing starting with all my powder -20# to +100# (using # for mesh not pounds) the density of 3F did not increase very much. Polishing resulted in a small % fines coming off. I was getting 88-90 gn per 100gn volume measure unpolished and polished 91.5gn per 100gn volume measure.

I have not achieved 91.5 since.

First batch of this polishing, I ran 4 hours in the tumbler (no media, autogenous grinding!). Only 2F and 3F together, no 4F.
Sieving in smaller quantities and using a paintbrush over the sieved material, my grains look VERY even in size and relatively black, clean and non-dusty. They still look very angular. I generated about 6% fines, below 40#.

Bulk density was almost the same before and after - around 86.2 gn per 100gn measure.

Because my objective is now to get the bulk density closer to commercial powder, I believe my next two steps are:
1) Try mixing small amounts of <20# into the 2F to get it to pack with smaller air spaces, ie a wider mesh range could be expected to have less air space between grains.
2) Try tumbling the polished grains with graphite. It could be expected to reduce friction between grains, and let them settle more tightly. I plan to mist in about 2% moisture to get the graphite to attach to grains, then dry it again after.

[DoubleBuck]

ChrisPer;
When reading your post, I had a thought. You didn't mention the density of your powder (of the puck) before grading and polishing.
If you are trying to achieve the density of commercial, by volume, you'll have to get initial densities up around 1.7. Or whatever the density of the powder is listed, if it is listed.
This may all be redundant, if you have done so; but if it is varying from the first batch where you got the 91.5, that would be my first thought. Puck density and grain size being equivalent, you should be near equal to commercial, especially after polishing. Good luck, and keep us posted!

[Vettepilot]

@Chrisper:
The graphite should stick to the grains without adding moisture. Also, my understanding is that polishing and adding graphite both work to help keep powder from absorbing moisture. That makes it sound like your plan would trap moisture into the powder. Not good...

Try adding cut up scraps of denim, (blue jean) material to your polishing tumbler. I've read of this being done, and that it works quite well, but have not yet polished any powder myself. Let us know how it works.

Vettepilot

[Claypipe]

people poop too

But, there is quite a difference between Bat poop and Human poop. Chicken poop is another acceptable source. Learned a few things during my childhood time living in the Appalachians,as well as, reading first hand accounts of those who kept Diaries and Journals of their life in the early years in North America.

[ChrisPer]

I just ran another couple of mill batches through the pucking press, along with a lot of fines from previous. I am finding that my motions are easier to do all these powder making tasks and the job becoming almost pleasant, and less slow and clumsy. The powder is working very well when I shoot it. I had the impression that people were short of it but when I go to the club everyone is interested but no-one wants to get any except the guys that tested it and found it as good as Swiss for accuracy and velocity.

Someone asked what my puck density is; I am getting 1.90 (dampened 6%) averaged over the last four mill batches. Dry density would therefore be 1.79 g/cm3.
My experiments on mixing a wider range of granule sizes are still halfway along, but an interesting observation: this time I am measuring both loose fill of the 100gn measure, and tamped until it won't take any more. The 100gn volume measure gives a loose weight of 86-90gn. The fully tamped (by tapping about 50 taps) 100gn measure holds 102 gns weight! Maybe my density is already equal to commercial, if the mixing grainsize ranges doesn't increase density much maybe the graphite will let it pack down as it runs freely into the measure!

[Vettepilot]

It sounds like you're already "there" my friend, both in terms of density, and more importantly, in terms of overall performance. Congrats! Don't change a thing! ;~)

However, if you insist.... maybe try polishing with the denim scraps I mentioned. For the last 10 minutes of this, take out the denim scraps and add your graphite. Then re-screen to remove dust, which tends to inhibit free flowing.

Just a suggestion. Keep us updated!

Good luck,
Vettepilot

[Blacksmith]

I did a search and did not see this book if it is a dupe ignore it or nuke it as appropriate.

Just finished reading Like Fire and Powder by Brett Gibbons. It is an excellent book that explains how to make your own black powder. It is a new book came out since Goex closed down and covers how to make Black Powder specifically for firearms rather than for pyrotechnics.

Link to book on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=like+fire...ref=nb_sb_noss

Link to authors web page (he also sells the book):
https://papercartridges.com/

It is a good addition to your DIY library.

[Vettepilot]

Hi Blacksmith,

Yeah, some of us here had mentioned/acquired this book a while back. It's ok, and a worthwhile purchase and addition to one's reference library, but I was mildly disappointed in it. But then I have researched Black Powder for several years now, and followed this thread here quite closely. So coming across any "new" information for me is difficult, though quite pleasing when it happens...

Thanks for the "heads up" regarding the book!

Did I catch a rumor/blurb about Goex perhaps coming back, or did I dream that? It seems funny they would go down, with their government contracts and the total unreliability of foreign supplies these days?

I sincerely worry that if a great many people start making their own powder, it won't be "under the radar" anymore. Government scrutiny is NEVER, EVER, good. True more now than ever in history!


Vettepilot