My homemade black powder

[DoubleBuck]

Fantastic DoubleBuck!
My tumbler is my own fault, inventing an idea and whining not just changing it to make it better when it doesn't work right. I might actually do something.

I certainly don't consider it whining. You have an idea and it is a good one. You'll hit the sweet spot and one little modification will turn your project from a failure, to a great success. Stay on it, and keep us updated! You'll save someone else a lot of head scratching!
On a somewhat related subject... One time I was building a ten dollar part, for my race car. A buddy was leaning over my shoulder, watching, and said, "Buck, I swear, you'll spend three hours building a ten dollar part." To which, I came back, "Yes, Tim, but you see I have three hours of time, and I don't have ten dollars."
Poor people have poor people's ways...

[LAGS]

Also.
Building your parts, you aquire Knowledge.
That knowledge can be stored away for the time when that ten dollar part is no longer available.
That over time becomes worth well more than that one part , and forms a basis for other issues that may come up in the future

[Vettepilot]

...
On a somewhat related subject... One time I was building a ten dollar part, for my race car. A buddy was leaning over my shoulder, watching, and said, "Buck, I swear, you'll spend three hours building a ten dollar part." To which, I came back, "Yes, Tim, but you see I have three hours of time, and I don't have ten dollars."
Poor people have poor people's ways...

OMG--> You just described me, and my philosophy, to a "T"! You just left out the gratification of doing it, pride in your accomplishment, and in saving the money!!

And often times the custom piece is better than the 10 dollar one!

Vettepilot

[ChrisPer]

More wonderful, the experience building the ten dollar part allows you to later build a different part that is totally unobtainable, or never existed - until you made it.

[Vettepilot]

Yeah. Now if I could get "reborn", while keeping the last 66 years worth of study, knowledge and experience, I could really "truck on" with some projects!! That would be cool!!

Vettepilot

[HighUintas]

I've not tested my tree of heaven wood yet, but here's some interesting information on my mill/SS media !

I did some reading on ball mill optimization and found that for spherical media in a 4" ID tumbler without lifters, the ideal speed is 80-95 rpm. If your jar is bigger, then that speed will be lower. If your jar has lifters, it will be lower. If it is hexagonal shape rather than round, it will be lower, if you use cylindrical media it will be lower. If you search ball mill critical speed or optimization, you should find some helpful info. I set up my HF tumbler to 82-84rpm.

I got some information on optimal charges for single/double component milling in the HF size tumblers from skylighter and another source. I can't remember the name of the document. I'll post it sometime. For single component chemical milling (like KNO3) the charge is 170g. So I did that for 12 hours in my HF tumbler at 82rpm. I then cleaned the media and put 40g of sulfur and 60g of Paulownia CC in the other jar and milled it for 12 hr. With the bulk of the CC, that may have been a bit too much. I then combined my KNO3 and CC/S into a jar and milled it for about 2.5 hrs.

I did this because I'm using 304 SS media to prevent lead/copper contamination if my powder and I want to minimize the time that I'm milling with the 3 ingredient combined explosive mixture. Supposedly, you only need to mix the 3 ingredients together really well if their particle size is already reduced. In theory, you should be able to mill the 3 ingredients separately and mix them together by hand, and still get the same results. But, mixing them well by hand is hard. Supposedly sifting multiple times will work. I may try milling the 3 ingredients together for mixing only for 3 hours next time.

Here's the interesting parts.

I always start with 130g ingredients in the mill. With my copper/lead media, I'd end up with 133-134g after pressing and drying the pucks. After pressing and drying with the SS media, I had 124.5g after pressing and drying the pucks!!!!!!!!

When I did burn tests on paper with the powder made with lead/copper media, I'd get a yellow halo around the burn area on the paper. I wondered if that was from the copper or lead. When doing a burn test on paper with my SS media milled powder, NO yellow halo!

I've been testing 68gr charges of my BP with a 405gr .459 bullet. I did the same today with my new powder. With my lead/copper milled powder, I'd get an avg of around 1220fps. With my SS milled powder, I get around 1275fps!!! Actually, I had some odd velocity results today that I think are from the sun changing positions. The results are below.

1. 1275
2. 1271
3. 1265
4. 1270
5. 1278
6. 1267
7. 1281
8. 1281
9. Error
10. 1294
11. 1300
12. 1297
Cleaned barrel, noticed the sun had shift and was hitting one of my chronos sensors so I adjusted it.
13. 1254
14. 1232
15. 1249
16. 1224
17. 1240
18. 1238
19. Forgot to write down

Before moving in to the TOH, I'll work on further improving my Paulownia powder and optimizing my mills efficiency in milling time.

I also have some Haifa tech grade KNO3 to test, but I'll move to that when I'm out of stump remover.

Something else I want to try adjusting is the ratio of KNO3/CC. I know Fly was always saying just stick to the 75/15/10, but I was reading through some of that "mad monk" guys files and he has some detailed info on the Swiss powder process and ingredients. They apparently use 78/12/10? I'm not sure if that's really true, but I'm going to try it.

[ChrisPer]

Very interesting HighUintas!
I hadn't realised the Tree of Heaven was NOT paulownia.

Baked my second batch of willow yesterday. I put a cast iron gas ring on the briquette deck inside my old Weber kettle, with the soup pot directly on it so the grill deck is removed. It smoked as before, and naturally there was no wind... got the vented gas to light but only for a bit. Rather unpleasant smoke.

And I made a couple of new 150mm dia pots which will be lidded with plain end caps taped on. I plan to make a press mounted lever tool to pull the caps off.

UPDATE: Shot Class 3 Pistol (open muzzleloader, 25m precision) with the homemade 4F in my .45 Charles Moore percussion pistol. Shot two cards, 87 and 87.2, my best ever score, for second overall. Everyone was very happy for me! Also tried a rather nice Pedersoli underhammer. Wow...

[Nobade]

Ailanthus altissima = tree of heaven or paradise tree. Long thin leaves that smell awful when crushed. Young trees easily confused with walnut.

Paulownia Tomentosa = princess tree. Large leaves, as big as your hand or more. Large showy flowers. One of the fastest growing trees in the world. Wood is lightweight and very resistant to rot. Popular to make surfboards out of.

Both of these are native to Asia, both very invasive and fast growing. Generally it's a good idea to kill them if they're found on your property as they will spread quickly. That is, unless you make charcoal out of them.

On another note, has anybody tried making gunpowder using narrow leaf willow? It is quite common here in NM, whereas black willow is very seldom seen at least around Albuquerque.

[HighUintas]

Another important note on tree of heaven: don't just start cutting it down if you want to control it or kill it. Cutting down trees or saplings will promote the tree sending out more shoots, ultimately helping it grow.

I cut mine off of public land thinking... I don't need a permit, I'm helping out. I then looked up control methods of it and they say that cutting only helps it grow more. You have to use a certain herbicide or use it in combination with cutting. It also releases a toxin into the soil to prevent growth of other trees, which is why it's so invasive here. After identifying it, I now notice the stuff is EVERYWHERE.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=ChrisPer;5223055]Very interesting HighUintas!
I hadn't realised the Tree of Heaven was NOT paulownia.

Baked my second batch of willow yesterday. I put a cast iron gas ring on the briquette deck inside my old Weber kettle, with the soup pot directly on it so the grill deck is removed. It smoked as before, and naturally there was no wind... got the vented gas to light but only for a bit. Rather unpleasant smoke.

And I made a couple of new 150mm dia pots which will be lidded with plain end caps taped on.

Thats pots for the mill? ends pressed on and taped ? sounds kinda scary to me

on my mill the end caps would be running on the drive rollers, the tape would be worn through and long gone, 20 pound of lead balls in there with the ingredients, murphy sez the end caps are gonna loosen up from the impact and fall off, the contents of that pot is gonna be all over the shop floor, and there is nothing more exciting than the flash burn you get from a thin film of black dust on stuff. not tryin to be a damper - but that fine dust coating has been the downfall of many a powder plant.

[ChrisPer]

Yes Indian Joe, but the tumbler barrels are (ideally) not rolling but cradled, locked into position in the center of the converted tumble dryer barrel. My first barrels have 150mm inspection covers, ie screw lids, but they keep coming off because they are not made to resist the moving weight inside, and the first version cradle is too loose. The new cradle will actually hold the caps axially, under spring or screw clamp pressure. So far I have been using tie down straps and they are not tight enough.

[HighUintas]

I'm experiencing clumping on one side in my new milling setup. I knew this would be a potential issue going from cylindrical media to balls. The content is all moving to one side and clumping onto the side (bottom) of the mill jar.

For those of you that have had this problem, did drying out your chemicals help prevent it? I'm thinking I might throw in a few odd shaped milling pieces to see if that helps knock the stuff off the side.

[SeaMonkey]

Yes, drying the chemicals will prevent them from clumping while being milled.

[ChrisPer]

Yep, mine was clumping - even pelletizing! I got serious about drying beforehand and it started working well.

Someone said its only the charcoal as that goes up to 25% moisture easily but KNO3 only does 7%!
Think about it. Either at that level is bringing the same weight of water into the batch!

[HighUintas]

I'll have to try that on my next batch. I just need to figure out a good method to dry those super fine powder charcoal and sulfur. Maybe put it in a tray on top of my kids toaster oven because that gets pretty warm when it's turned on to 150-200F

[HighUintas]

I've got some 78/12/10 loaded up for Friday! We'll see what difference that makes. I got that ratio from the mad monk files... Supposedly that's the Swiss ratio. I think the optimum ratio probably depends on the wood type and charring temp though. We'll see. 1275fps is my average to beat! Less than 100 away from OE

[Vettepilot]

We'll be waiting to hear. Good luck!

Vettepilot

[LAGS]

I did make up a batch with 2% more sulfur and 1% less of the other two chemicals.
It is supposed to ignite faster.
I ground it up into 4f for my flintlock Blunderbuss to use in the flash pan.
I tried some firing off blank loads on the 4th of July.
It really Poofed good in the pan , and seemed to flash better than the store bought 4f that I also tried.
But I am still on the fence about changing the ratios for the rest of my powders.
Please let us know how your powder turns out.

[HighUintas]

It's looking good! I'll get my numbers up later today

[HighUintas]

Here are two pictures of velocities. The first is from last time, using a 75/15/10 ratio and the second is from today using a 78/12/10 ratio. Other than that, the load is the same and the process used for making the powder was the same.

The average velocity is in the pictures. I threw out #6,7, and 20 from the average in today's results because they were so far off from the other measurements and they happened concurrently with other errors. #4 and 5 were not included because one was a magnum primer and the other was a 83.8gr charge. I had to compress that one quite a bit!

It looks like I might have gained around 25fps, but it's hard to say for sure with some of the measurement errors.

I'll be doing that ratio again next time and reducing the amount of time I mill the 3 component mixture to 30 minutes.