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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #5221
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleBuck View Post
    Maillemaker;
    That's great! You need to show a little more of that rifle and tell some more about it. Did you make the stock and all, or was that part of the donor gun? It looked like it did very good. How far were you shooting and did you have group? Congratulations, to you!
    I'll be doing a video on the makings of the gun shortly. Basically, I retroverted an Armisport M1842 to look like an M1840 flintlock that Hewes and Phillips had converted to percussion. The guns are almost identical. I got an M1840 lock plate from The Rifle Shop. I had to splice in wood at the back of the lock mortise to allow for the longer, pointy 1840 lock plate. And of course to match on the opposite side of the stock. All the M1842 lock internals and hammer transferred over. I had to design and have machined a new breech with the H&P style bolster. And I replaced the cast-in front sight bead with a correct soldered-on brass bead.

  2. #5222
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    Quote Originally Posted by maillemaker View Post
    Generally speaking, I have always heard it said to avoid grinders with metalic or steel grinding mechanisms. I use a ceramic burr coffee grinder.
    Would you mind telling me which grinder you use? I presently have two ceramic burr grinders one manual and one electric, but both have problems.

    I use this one after breaking the pucks up. It's set on coarse as it doesn't do a good job of getting the granules down to ready to screen size. The handle on it broke soon after I got it and I've been using it with a visegrip latched on ever since.

    https://www.amazon.com/Hario-MSCS-2D...90&sr=8-4&th=1

    After running through that grinder I then do the final grinding with this little DC powered grinder set on fine.

    https://www.amazon.com/Conical-Ceram...ps%2C90&sr=8-8

    That system works pretty well except the second grinder has what I consider to be a design flaw and keeps breaking. That might be because it wasn't designed to grind black powder which is probably harder than coffee beans. The outer ceramic burr ring is held from rotating by two plastic pins which break off after a while. That allows the outer ring to spin right along with the inner ring and no grinding takes place. I've been able to get it going again twice by rigging up replacement pins from metal roll pins but the attachment point is buggered up pretty bad and I don't think it will last too long. I've thought that if I bought another of that same grinder and reinforced those pins before they break off they might hold up, but maybe there's a better option.

    You guys have convinced me not to try the stainless steel ones. I think they'd probably work but it's not worth taking the chance as the consequences could be pretty bad if they don't.

  3. #5223
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    I have a Hario ceramic grinder that is likely the same model as you have shown. I have done at least 10 lbs. of powder with it so far without a hitch. I only use if for grinding the corned powder and I grind it all a bit coarse first grind and anything that does not screen gets ground again with the grinder set on a finer grind setting.

    I use an electric stainless steel coffee grinder for grinding the Potassium Nitrate prills until they are small enough to pass a #40 screen and the same for any Charcoal that does not screen as well, but most of my Charcoal reduces to fine powder by grinding in a hand meat/vegetable grinder right out of the retort. My Sulfur only needs to have a few clumps busted up for it to screen.

    I did make a grommet to fit on the bottom of the stem of the Hario ceramic grinder so that the stem burr stays more centered. Seems to help it make a more consistent sized grind as this prevents the stem burrs from moving back and forth against the set burr plate as the handle is turned. So far I have just ground with it by hand, but I thought I might try using an electric drill to speed things up and reduce the wear & tear on my arm.
    73 de n0ubx, Rick
    NRA Benefactor Life Member/VFW Life Member

  4. #5224
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    Would you mind telling me which grinder you use? I presently have two ceramic burr grinders one manual and one electric, but both have problems.

    I use this one after breaking the pucks up. It's set on coarse as it doesn't do a good job of getting the granules down to ready to screen size. The handle on it broke soon after I got it and I've been using it with a visegrip latched on ever since.

    https://www.amazon.com/Hario-MSCS-2D...90&sr=8-4&th=1
    That is the one I use. Don't use the glass jar though - you don't want a glass grenade if it goes off. I 3D printed a mount that threads in like the glass jar, and it lets me screw it to a piece of wood with a hole in it, and with a piece of PVC pipe to drop the powder down from the grinder.

    I don't know if you are aware, but you can adjust the gap between the two ceramic grinding burrs. It's better to set it too course than too fine. I finally got mine set where it will convert everything into about 1/3rd 2F, 1/3rd 3F and 1/3rd fines. You will of course have to keep dumping the overly-course bits back in to run through again and again. It is helpful at that stage to lift up a bit on the crank as you go, or at least as you get started on the re-grinds, so that they don't just fall right through the grinder. By lifting up on the crank you raise the lower burr and close the gap between the burrs.

  5. #5225
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    I've posted Amazon links on here before, but I don't know if they are still allowed. I didn't know but found out the hard way about the "bay" links! They were brutal with me about it!! I'm still "smarting" and pissed from the rude experience. Anyway don't post any of those (unmentionable) links or you'll be sorry. Anyone know where the animosity comes from??
    :~(

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  6. #5226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    I've posted Amazon links on here before, but I don't know if they are still allowed. I didn't know but found out the hard way about the "bay" links! They were brutal with me about it!! I'm still "smarting" and pissed from the rude experience. Anyway don't post any of those (unmentionable) links or you'll be sorry. Anyone know where the animosity comes from??
    :~(

    Vettepilot
    Nobody likes an exaggerator & you were warned to knock it off.
    "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
    - Albert Camus -

  7. #5227
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    I went over the T.O.S. and it looks like item #5 applies here, is that correct? I imagine herding cats can make one a bit grumpy.....
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

    "A rat became the unit of currency"

  8. #5228
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    Not saying it is the case here but the reason we don’t allow eBay links is because some folks link to stuff they are selling.
    "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
    - Albert Camus -

  9. #5229
    Boolit Man mmb617's Avatar
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    If I'm not allowed to post Amazon links here then I apologize. Mods can delete that post if they so desire. It just seemed like the easiest way to show exactly what grinders I'm using.

    Since I'm happy with my current grinding method other than the breakage problem on the electric grinder I think I'll go ahead and order another one of those. I'm reasonably certain that if I address the weak area before it breaks I can strengthen it so that it doesn't break at all.

  10. #5230
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    Ok for you guys that press your powder, how do you measure the amount to press. Like you want 3500 psi. And don’t have a pressure guage on your pump jack.

    Do you just add a certain amount of green incorporated meal powder, and press say a 2’’ disk to a certain height?
    Then pull out, let dry a few days, then bust up and grind, then screen?
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #5231
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_1 View Post
    Not saying it is the case here but the reason we don’t allow eBay links is because some folks link to stuff they are selling.
    Thank you for the clarification #1.
    "If everyone is thinking the same thing it means someone is not thinking"

    "A rat became the unit of currency"

  12. #5232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossfly View Post
    Ok for you guys that press your powder, how do you measure the amount to press. Like you want 3500 psi. And don’t have a pressure guage on your pump jack.

    Do you just add a certain amount of green incorporated meal powder, and press say a 2’’ disk to a certain height?
    Then pull out, let dry a few days, then bust up and grind, then screen?
    The idea is to get a certain density like 1.7 or 1.6 grams per cubic centimeter. So in other words, a given weight for a certain volume. You can control both, one with a scale and the other by measuring and putting a reference mark on your die. The pressure and application time are not constant from batch to batch or day to day or for a given humidity level so you cant rely on just that to get a consistent density. A consistent density from puck to puck and grain to grain is as desirable as consistent grain sizes.

    For example, the piston i use is stepped from 3 inches in diameter at the base to 2 inches at the top. so my reference mark is when the top of the 3in. step reaches the top of the die. From there, i check how much height is left before the piston bottoms out. In my case that was 0.55 inches. I have 2 plastic disk spacers at 0.100 each so the remaining amount of space for the powder is 0.35in. Good, now i calculate the volume of that cylinder and figure out how much powder by weight i need to add in order to get 1.6g/cc, in my case that's 64 grams. Its important to not overdo the density, but the best for low velocity deviation and accuracy i believe is to be consistent from puck to puck as much as possible. I like to take a bit of extra time to make sure the powder is nice and even in the die and make sure that the ram is properly centered on the piston to ensure i get even pressure and level pucks. There is a slight learning curve, but once you figure it out, it becomes a production line.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  13. #5233
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    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    The idea is to get a certain density like 1.7 or 1.6 grams per cubic centimeter. So in other words, a given weight for a certain volume. You can control both, one with a scale and the other by measuring and putting a reference mark on your die. The pressure and application time are not constant from batch to batch or day to day or for a given humidity level so you cant rely on just that to get a consistent density. A consistent density from puck to puck and grain to grain is as desirable as consistent grain sizes.

    For example, the piston i use is stepped from 3 inches in diameter at the base to 2 inches at the top. so my reference mark is when the top of the 3in. step reaches the top of the die. From there, i check how much height is left before the piston bottoms out. In my case that was 0.55 inches. I have 2 plastic disk spacers at 0.100 each so the remaining amount of space for the powder is 0.35in. Good, now i calculate the volume of that cylinder and figure out how much powder by weight i need to add in order to get 1.6g/cc, in my case that's 64 grams. Its important to not overdo the density, but the best for low velocity deviation and accuracy i believe is to be consistent from puck to puck as much as possible. I like to take a bit of extra time to make sure the powder is nice and even in the die and make sure that the ram is properly centered on the piston to ensure i get even pressure and level pucks. There is a slight learning curve, but once you figure it out, it becomes a production line.
    Thanks for that explanation, I’ve got a piece ordered from Grainger to use as a piston, already have several hydraulic jacks in my inventory. And will be assembling later this month. Will put in a measured amount of powder and press to a point and mark distance pressed. Reference that to said powder and temp and humidity and go from there. Ive been reading the book by Gibbons like fire and powder. About 4 times, just trying to get the process down before I do something stupid.keep small if the dragon bites.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #5234
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    When loading cartridges, many factors come into play to achieve accuracy, I currently expect no more than 5 fps deviation from average now. Over 10 is unacceptable and a waste of good primers and bullets. A consistent powder goes a long way to achieve this.
    I am currently reading a book called “ The breech loading single shot rifle” from Major Ned Mathews and Ken Waters. Its fantastic but the old timers were incredibly finnicky about little things during a match regarding their ammunition they only shot fresh cast bullets in the order that they were cast due to the varying temper. If they had made their own powder, I’m certain that they would have been equally as finnicky.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  15. #5235
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    I’ve made screened powder and really made a lot of dust. It shot ok in a muzzleloader, but don’t think it would be good in pistol.

    Fell into some 25# of Goex 2F nd 3F so thats what I’m comparing it to. Cant beat the price tho. Ive been producing a lot of willow charcoal from local harvest and will continue to do so, just need to find some sassafras to compare.

    Last few batches were cooked at a lower temp and you can tell it has some brown tint if you hold it just right in the light, not as charred as some i cooked in past. Will keep separated to try different batches.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  16. #5236
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    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    The idea is to get a certain density like 1.7 or 1.6 grams per cubic centimeter. So in other words, a given weight for a certain volume. You can control both, one with a scale and the other by measuring and putting a reference mark on your die. The pressure and application time are not constant from batch to batch or day to day or for a given humidity level so you cant rely on just that to get a consistent density. A consistent density from puck to puck and grain to grain is as desirable as consistent grain sizes.

    For example, the piston i use is stepped from 3 inches in diameter at the base to 2 inches at the top. so my reference mark is when the top of the 3in. step reaches the top of the die. From there, i check how much height is left before the piston bottoms out. In my case that was 0.55 inches. I have 2 plastic disk spacers at 0.100 each so the remaining amount of space for the powder is 0.35in. Good, now i calculate the volume of that cylinder and figure out how much powder by weight i need to add in order to get 1.6g/cc, in my case that's 64 grams. Its important to not overdo the density, but the best for low velocity deviation and accuracy i believe is to be consistent from puck to puck as much as possible. I like to take a bit of extra time to make sure the powder is nice and even in the die and make sure that the ram is properly centered on the piston to ensure i get even pressure and level pucks. There is a slight learning curve, but once you figure it out, it becomes a production line.
    Almar:

    So if I'm following you from this, your finished pressed pucks are .116", or just under 1/8" thick each? Do I have that right?

    Thanks,
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  17. #5237
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    Almar:

    So if I'm following you from this, your finished pressed pucks are .116", or just under 1/8" thick each? Do I have that right?

    Thanks,
    Vettepilot
    Sorry, no, i use the "spacers" at the bottom to seal the powder from the press and the top to seal the powder from the piston. I guess i could try making them thin instead, may have to try that next time.

    Another thing to mention is that i do have a pressure gauge and use it. I find that an 8000lbs peak force is best and that's what i shoot for, i let the pressure come down on its own as the powder compresses over time. It usually takes less than a minute but the time is the only variable. More force will make the puck stick to the die and pushing it out by hand will be difficult. Now from what Doublebuck said, apparently my charcoal is different somehow, more compressible, it may be a magical willow tree, but i dont need more force than that to get to my goal of 1.6 g/cc and probably why i got such high densities before at over 2g/cc.
    Last edited by almar; 01-12-2022 at 07:56 PM.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
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  18. #5238
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    8000#. What size is your jack ram piston; or what is your actual psi loading?

    Thanks Almar,
    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  19. #5239
    Boolit Master almar's Avatar
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    3 inch piston or 7.07 sq.in so 1132psi.
    “It is not enough that we do our best; sometimes we must do what is required.”
    ― Winston S. Churchill

  20. #5240
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    Quote Originally Posted by almar View Post
    The idea is to get a certain density like 1.7 or 1.6 grams per cubic centimeter. So in other words, a given weight for a certain volume. You can control both, one with a scale and the other by measuring and putting a reference mark on your die. The pressure and application time are not constant from batch to batch or day to day or for a given humidity level so you cant rely on just that to get a consistent density. A consistent density from puck to puck and grain to grain is as desirable as consistent grain sizes.

    For example, the piston i use is stepped from 3 inches in diameter at the base to 2 inches at the top. so my reference mark is when the top of the 3in. step reaches the top of the die. From there, i check how much height is left before the piston bottoms out. In my case that was 0.55 inches. I have 2 plastic disk spacers at 0.100 each so the remaining amount of space for the powder is 0.35in. Good, now i calculate the volume of that cylinder and figure out how much powder by weight i need to add in order to get 1.6g/cc, in my case that's 64 grams. Its important to not overdo the density, but the best for low velocity deviation and accuracy i believe is to be consistent from puck to puck as much as possible. I like to take a bit of extra time to make sure the powder is nice and even in the die and make sure that the ram is properly centered on the piston to ensure i get even pressure and level pucks. There is a slight learning curve, but once you figure it out, it becomes a production line.
    I'm kinda lost on the density thing
    (no mystery I am some lazy and get lost easy) all I do is compare my finished powder to commercial in a bulk measure

    - so - drop tube and three taps, tap it on the bench 13 times, electric vibrator, - whatever method is considered normal practice in measuring for a load - then - how many grains weight of each powder did we get into the measure ? so far I have not got an equal weight to my reference commercial powder (early 1990's Goex 5FA) - so - 78 grains of homemade takes up the same space as 83 grains of goex - given the same jiggling to fill the measure.

    now for some complications - compression - I test compression using a small NON compound linkage loading press with my compression die in and I use a scale on the handle of that press so to give equal measured force on the compression die - when I do that the result is that homemade powder compresses to greater depth in the case than the Goex - such that I could fit at least a couple grains more (maybe more than a couple) in to arrive at the same deck height for equal amount of compression force. - so - its likely that is because of the grain shape of the homemade ? (I have no intention of tumbling that powder to polish the grains - have plenty of fines coming out already thanks)

    all that said the velocity so far has been a little better than goex - I shoot ten shot strings for the chronograph and if I am careful in the loading room can keep Extreme Spread in the single digit range.

    I firmly believe that old GoEx (1990 vintage before the Moosic pa. plant went kaboom) is a superior powder in every way, to what came later. Maybe they about got there with Olde Eynsford ?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check