I hope someone tries Tumbleweeds soon. I'm just flat out not able to at the moment.
Interesting info on them, and thanks. Down in Southeast Arizona where I grew up, they surely drove the poor farmers crazy.
Vettepilot
I hope someone tries Tumbleweeds soon. I'm just flat out not able to at the moment.
Interesting info on them, and thanks. Down in Southeast Arizona where I grew up, they surely drove the poor farmers crazy.
Vettepilot
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)
Interesting discovery, this mix seems to have made no difference whatsoever in performance. This is a pretty large difference with 75-15-10. Residue looked the same but fouling seemed less a bit than the typical 75-15-10. The granules were harder and the color at 1.67 g/cc of the granules looked brownish red. The puck making was easier and required about 8000psi compared to the typical 4000, i think that this is what made the granules harder or maybe it was the higher sulfur and charcoal content? However the higher pressure required could be due to the moisture content, not sure. I only had time to fire one shot and straight out of the dehydrator too, so more to follow on this when i can get a decent 5 shot string in before dark and after the powder was allowed to rest a bit from the dehydrator. The fouling was greasy. 35 grains of 3F gave 1140fps with a 270 bullet from accurate moulds. 777 ft/lbs!! So, if this works out, this is an obvious go to mix for me. More questions than answers for now until i do more shooting.
Last edited by almar; 01-14-2025 at 08:45 PM.
The sulphur actually plasticizes under compression, and that's what glues the powder together according to my studies. The increased sulphur likely made for the harder granules.
Thanks, and we'll be watching for more. You're right; such a large recipe change would result in some kind of difference, one would think...
Not a ton of studies were actually done on brown powder; at least not like black powder. It came out right about the same time as smokeless powder, and everyone just switched over.
Vettepilot
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)
Yeah...true...i like that aspect of sulphur.
35-->270-->1140 is pretty dam respectable. Homemade powder or not. Closing in on 44 mag!
Vettepilot
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)
Yeah, a bit flatter than normal. There's no "free lunch". Pressure is pressure. Higher ballistic performance means more pressure.
I think I read once that maximum achievable pressure with black powder was about 22,000 psi, but I have no idea if that's true or not...
Vettepilot
Addendum:
Well, I don't know. Some more non-cited stuff here:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...0a%20BP%20load.
Last edited by Vettepilot; 01-15-2025 at 08:12 PM.
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)
I say not true ......or at least dont count on it
I blew the nipple clean out of a commercially made post hole gun using black powder
based on that experience I reckon I could blow just about any muzzleloader barrel using a charge of blackpowder
the 20,000- 28,000psi number likely is true IF there is a single normal projectile loaded ......................................
I don't even know where one could look up the true info on pressure. I have heard it said many times that you could not blow a gun up with black powder. I have also seen several videos where people tried to blow up guns on purpose with black powder, and could not do so. Multiple projectiles, huge charges all the way to barrel full of powder, etc., and none blew up.
All these things gave me a lot of comfort about my normal usage of BP guns. Are you getting into a different area with your experiments? Dunno...
One thing I learned though. Velocity itself IS a sign of pressure.
Vettepilot
"Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)
It typically is but velocity can be due to acceleration applied hard but quickly or less hard for a longer time where the former would cause more pressure than the latter. Question is, what hapened here? The primer flattening indicates to me that there was a bit more pressure than normal. I am a bit concerned, not overly so but i do my tests with a italian saa...maybe i should switch to my blackhawk or stick with the lighter bullets.
Last edited by almar; 01-17-2025 at 11:17 AM.
The Swiss Powder Calculator I posted the URL to, the other day; tells the peak pressure, velocity, amount of powder burned, and when. It also tells muzzle pressure. Almost every scenario, peak pressure occurs within .2" of projectile travel. If it is .1", almost every scenario requires a short barrel or wasted energy.
Can you blow up a black powder rifle? It ain't gonna intentionally be done by me.
good calculator, to replicate the velocity i used 45 grains of 4fg and it says 33,796 psi seems about right with how these CCI primers looked.
Almar;
Those numbers you put up are pretty impressive. My last test, I was using 22 grains of 4ffff in a Pietta .44 and I think it averaged 902, for 18 shots, on a round ball of 138 grains. You got over 200 feet higher velocity, with a bullet over twice as heavy. Was this still with 35 grains charge? If so, it was 13 grains heavier than I used.
This is somewhat meaningless, but your efficiency averaged 31.99 fps/grain. Mine averaged 41 fps/grain, but with half the bullet weight. I'd say you got it going on!
This morning I see on the FB group that several people are experimenting with using wood pellets to make charcoal. I can't imagine that would be ideal since there is no way to tell what they are made from, but supposedly they make good powder. Of course flash testing green meal is different from actually testing in a real firearm, but who knows. Has anybody here tried that yet?
A lot of wood pellets are made from de-barked hardwoods, saw dust or chipped wood. They burn clean and produce low ash, in heaters. My son has two of them. Pellets also vary in quality and price, so you probably get what you pay for. They seem to be consistent in burn rate. I think they are just six dollars for a bag, but don't know the weight. (50# I think) That would make a bunch of charcoal.
No, I have not made charcoal from them, but it would be an easy test. Either she will or she won't; either she do or she don't. There ain't no multiple choice and only her hairdresser knows for sure. Nobade, let us know how they work. I nominate you to be the guinea pig...
I think it is a great idea. Maybe as good as Toilet Paper.
I did some reading on pellets. Some are made from soft woods, such a Douglas fir. They say they have less ash and are high heat output, but others say more dense hard woods have higher heat output, but are slower burning. A guy may have to just ash assay each and see what they produce. They may print ash content on the bags.
Some are made from a combination of soft and hard woods, to get a balance of easy burn and high output.
At six dollars per bag, they would be substantially cheaper than toilet paper, and would probably be easier to charcoal evenly. The layered insulating effect of toilet paper is a downside, making charcoal, in my opinion. Pellets would pretty much eliminate that.
Again, some are made bark and all, and some are completely debarked wood. I did not find any information on any additives they may have, such as binders. Most seem to just be extruded (45,000 psi and 200°F).
One thought I have is, after milling the coal; to run a good magnet over it, to make sure no steel has slipped by in manufacture. We don't need no stinking sparks!
I definitely think they would be worth testing. And like pet bedding and toilet paper, they are pretty well available, no matter where you're located. Make it so, number one!
I think I will. I was looking at them at Lowe's yesterday. Should have bought a bag while I was there. The bag said "low ash" so maybe that's a good sign?
Send the idea to Jake on EPB; he would probably be happy to try it.
yeah i didn't get quite get this much velocity before removing all the dust. I don't get it. I like to use unit of energy per grain i.e ftlbs per grain, the weight of the projectile is factored in that way.
regardless, The energy level is too much i think for 45 colt in BP only guns, i don't have any cases sticking and there are no signs of strain that i can see on the brass or pistol but id rather be safe than sorry. The typical energy levels for standard non +p colt loads should be around 450-550 ftlbs, i will use less powder, just enough to require maybe .1 inch of compression. The kick i get from these is very similar to my 44 mag in a similar revolver. I'm pretty sure my standard manufacturing SAA can take +p pressures but I'm definitely not using BP in it.
Last edited by almar; 01-18-2025 at 12:50 PM.
I ran across about a box full of old Balloon Head .45 Colt brass at a gun show and thought that I might load up some BLack Powder loads to shoot in my old 1939 manufactured New Service Colt.
I had tried some BP in my old Flat Top Ruger Blackhawk .44 mag. years ago, but found that I really could not get enough BP in the modern .44 mag. case to do it justice. I think it was only about 30 gr. or so of Goex 3FG.
Well, I found that I could get the Elmer Keith load of 40 gr. of BP in the Balloon Head .45 Colt cases and still seat a BP lubed 250 gr Keith 454424. (the pre-war New Service Colts have a .454 groove dia.) This time I used some of my home made 3FG and that load was no slouch. Recoil was stiff.
My buddy only shot one cylinder full of them before he handed the big Colt New Service back to me and said he was done. I cleaned and reloaded all that brass and tossed it onto my ammo shelf, but I dropped the charge a bit.
The old .45 Colt SAA with full BP loads was apparently no wimp back in it's day. Black Powder loads for the .45 Colt make the weak factory loaded smokeless loads of today seem like plinkers.
Last edited by HamGunner; 01-18-2025 at 03:30 PM.
73 de n0ubx, Rick
NRA Benefactor Life Member/VFW Life Member
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |