My homemade black powder

[Vettepilot]

Yep!

Well, don't want my great instructions to get lost too. I put too dam much work into them. So, for posterity:

ACME BLACK POWDER MAKING INSTRUCTIONS

INGREDIENTS:

1. Pure potassium nitrate milled very fine. - 75%
2. Pure sulphur milled very fine. - 10%
3. Charcoal milled very fine. - 15%
A. Black Willow
B. Sassafras
C. Red Cedar
D. Grape Vine
E. Others

Cook wood until charred. (Not too hot/long!) Beat, pound, grind, mill until fine powder.

Mix ingredients and ball mill for more than 3 hours but less than 2 days.

Do flash test. FUN! (Do away from other powder(s) for best outcome.)
a. Optional: Invite Roadrunner, have him hold a pound while testing.

Compress powder. (More than jumping up and down on it required.)

Beat, pound, grind, mill until required granulation is achieved.

Fireworks and "Sporting", or gun use powder classifications, (and quality!) are different, so don't get confused, then,

Screen grade.

Package and go shoot.

Patents pending.

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

Brimstone;
I just wanted to give you a great thumbs up on the Mad Monk link. That is some really interesting information. I've read for probably four hours or more and am just finished with the 'Complete List Part 1'. I've had a few 'ah-ha' moments. That is just a really neat archive of pertinent information. Thanks for the heads up there!

[Vettepilot]

Hmmm... no sense of humor here.

Oh well, I like the Acme Powder instructions, and a bit of levity now and again.

Yes, the Mad Monk material is quite interesting.

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

VP;
It's a tough crowd. The silence is worse than letting hecklers in. haha

[Pioneer]

Hmmm... no sense of humor here.

Oh well, I like the Acme Powder instructions, and a bit of levity now and again.

Yes, the Mad Monk material is quite interesting.

Vettepilot

Soon as I saw the title I laughed. Could just see the coyote doing this!

[indian joe]

Yep!

Well, don't want my great instructions to get lost too. I put too dam much work into them. So, for posterity:

ACME BLACK POWDER MAKING INSTRUCTIONS

INGREDIENTS:

1. Pure potassium nitrate milled very fine. - 75%
2. Pure sulphur milled very fine. - 10%
3. Charcoal milled very fine. - 15%
A. Black Willow
B. Sassafras
C. Red Cedar
D. Grape Vine
E. Others

Cook wood until charred. (Not too hot/long!) Beat, pound, grind, mill until fine powder.

Mix ingredients and ball mill for more than 3 hours but less than 2 days.

Do flash test. FUN! (Do away from other powder(s) for best outcome.)
a. Optional: Invite Roadrunner, have him hold a pound while testing.

Compress powder. (More than jumping up and down on it required.)

Beat, pound, grind, mill until required granulation is achieved.

Fireworks and "Sporting", or gun use powder classifications, (and quality!) are different, so don't get confused, then,

Screen grade.

Package and go shoot.

Patents pending.

Vettepilot

what are ye doin picking on the roadrunner - sposed to give him the matches while the coyote holds the package with da fuse in it!

[indian joe]

favourite times of my life - saturday morning watching roadrunner cartoons with my two kids - still got em all here someplace on vhs tapes.

[HWooldridge]

Brimstone;
I just wanted to give you a great thumbs up on the Mad Monk link. That is some really interesting information. I've read for probably four hours or more and am just finished with the 'Complete List Part 1'. I've had a few 'ah-ha' moments. That is just a really neat archive of pertinent information. Thanks for the heads up there!

Amen to this^^^. All sorts of interesting tidbits. I was about to tumble a batch of powder to glaze it then read the comment about using muslin cloth to trap the dust. I’ll be asking the wife to pull some from her sewing stash.

[FrankJD]

Slow but sure, I'm getting there ...

[HamGunner]

Looking good FrankJD.

[HamGunner]

I pruned my grapes yesterday and cut up and debarked them to give grape charcoal a try. I had found an old 8 quart aluminum pressure pan in a Thrift Store for $5 so I decided to see how that would work as a retort.

I placed the round perforated spacer in the bottom to hold the grape vines off the bottom of the pan and made a round weld wire cage to place inside to keep the vine wood from touching the sides. I had enough grape vine wood to fill it completely up with wood. After charring, it shrunk down a good bit as you can see in the picture below.

Using a propane fish cooker, I cooked them out on the deck. I drilled out the steam vent stem so that I could insert my temperature gauge to monitor the internal temperature. They were done in 3 hours without going over 600 degrees. Ended up with almost 1 lb. of grape vine charcoal. So much easier and faster than my can inside a can inside my casting furnaces, which took me all day with several reloads for this much charcoal.

Somehow, my pictures always seem to post sideways. Just click on them and they will be upright.

[HWooldridge]

I pruned my grapes yesterday and cut up and debarked them to give grape charcoal a try. I had found an old 8 quart aluminum pressure pan in a Thrift Store for $5 so I decided to see how that would work as a retort.

I placed the round perforated spacer in the bottom to hold the grape vines off the bottom of the pan and made a round weld wire cage to place inside to keep the vine wood from touching the sides. I had enough grape vine wood to fill it completely up with wood. After charring, it shrunk down a good bit as you can see in the picture below.

Using a propane fish cooker, I cooked them out on the deck. I drilled out the steam vent stem so that I could insert my temperature gauge to monitor the internal temperature. They were done in 3 hours without going over 600 degrees. Ended up with almost 1 lb. of grape vine charcoal. So much easier and faster than my can inside a can inside my casting furnaces, which took me all day with several reloads for this much charcoal.

Somehow, my pictures always seem to post sideways. Just click on them and they will be upright.

Good luck - I liked the way my grape powder turned out. I’m making a batch of cedar right now.

[DoubleBuck]

FrankJD;
When you decided to get wet, you jumped in. That's the way to get used to it!

HamGunner;
That is a real neat setup you fixed there! The pressure cooker idea came up some time back and one of the proposed drawbacks was the seal might burn up. We talked about a small gasket of aluminum foil and other things. Was it a problem for you or did you even use a gasket? It surely looks like it worked mighty fine!
Be sure and post any testing you do on the Grape Vine. I made some early in my testing, but the wild vine was maybe as big as 5 inches in diameter. I cut it out of a tree that had blown over in a tornado we had. The powder was strong, but pretty dirty, as compared to the Swiss I had bought when I bought my first rifle. And, that was a couple of years or more, before I bought the chronograph. The more I read and study, the amount of fouling may not be as much a deal, as the type of fouling. And, as I remember, the Grape Vine did make greasy fouling. Just quite a bit of it.

HWooldridge;
Same for any testing you may do. Be sure and let us know how your results turn out. Too many viable woods can only be a good thing.

[HamGunner]

The gasket was toast by the time it was done cooking, but I think I can make a gasket out of some stove door gasket that I have left over from fixing my wood stove. But actually, the lid sits on tight enough that it can not get any air inside until the char is done. At that time, one needs to dump it out into an air tight container.

I will see if I can find a cheap pressure cooker that does not use the rubber gaskets in one of the thrift stores. That would be the cats meow I would think.

This grape vine wood is a dark black/brown color. Hopefully between the weld wire cage and my temperature gauge allowed me to keep from charring it too hot.

[BadgerShooter]

Has anyone had any experience with poplar for charcoal. I have about 4 acres worth growing in my old horse pasture.

[DoubleBuck]

Has anyone had any experience with poplar for charcoal. I have about 4 acres worth growing in my old horse pasture.

I wish I could remember who posts what, but in the last six months, someone tried and liked Poplar. And, it has been used as a comparison to Quaking Aspen, which is also supposed to be viable low ash wood. Maybe someone else will tell you for sure.

HamGunner;
I bought a roof seal for my wood stove, that my son turned me on to, a couple of years ago. I'll try to get with him, and find out what this material is. It is supposed to be good for, I think, 750° F. It is between Red, Brown and Orange in color, and feels like silicone, or rubber. If I can find out what it is, and you can get a gasket sized piece cut out, I think it would work. I've had some hellacious fires in my stove that didn't burn it up. And, I have made a lot of motor cycle and car exhaust gaskets, from a tightly rolled piece of tin foil.
I think your wood stove rope will work too, if you can make it the right size. You're definitely on to a good looking setup.

[BadgerShooter]

There isn't much black willow locally, but I think there is some growing on my Wife's family's farm but if poplar works, I'm set. Maybe I should plant a couple of acres into blackthorn.

[HWooldridge]

I know some of us are reading the Mad Monk info and there are small gems hidden throughout the chapters. I think it's worthwhile for anyone to sit down with a notepad and record some of the ones that apply to making premium powder. For example, he mentions the Brazilian producer modifying the nitrate percentage and states that 76 to 77 parts per hundred makes for a cleaner burn but 78 or higher caused fouling problems (page 30 of Pernambuco):

Quote, "In the shooting there was a very noticeable reduction in perceived bore fouling when going from 75 parts of potassium nitrate to 76 parts. A less noticeable reduction when going from 76 parts of potassium nitrate to 77 parts. Shooting with the powder prepared with 78 parts of potassium nitrate gave a bore fouling containing beads of incompletely reaction potassium nitrate. The resulting bore fouling had a "crunchy" feel when a damp cleaning patch was run down the bore and that were patches were the fouling stuck to the bore as if it had adhesive properties. Starting with the 1997 production, the formula was changed to 76.5 parts of potassium nitrate with a commensurate adjustment of the amount of charcoal and sulfur in the formulation." End Quote (I'm assuming he balanced the charcoal and sulfur equally).

Of course, this improvement was noticed using their native charcoal but it does point to experimental changes we can all make in the basic formula when using whatever wood we might be starting with. The Swiss did apparently make some sporting BP with 78 parts of nitrate and one could assume it worked fine with their alder charcoal.

[Trapper-Jack]

I have read many of the articles and a few things that stand out to me is the moisture during the mixing. The swiss booklet says they will use up to 10% moisture during the wheel milling. (Page 15) Most of what I've read here is about dry milling in a ball mill but that is about the only option without a large investment. It may be comparing apples to oranges but I'm continually thinking about the moisture during the pressing. Normally I use 4.8% on newly balled powder, 4.5% when reprocessing the fines from previously balled powder. If I go higher than that I'll get excess bleeding of water (and I'm sure a portion of the potassium nitrate) out the bottom of my die using a 20 ton jack. Page 19 describes their roller press where the powder is compressed into a cake that is about .5 to 1 cm thick. Page 20 states that the powder from the wheel mill, being low density, is compressed 35 to 40% reduction in volume. The densification and consolidation of the powder doesn't require a great deal of pressure for a period of time as with a plate press but depends on the loss of moisture through evaporation to complete the mechanical strength in the grains. I'm sure I'm compressing my green powder way more than the 35 to 40%. What I've been doing seems to have been working, but would more moisture and less compression work better? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this new information and comprehend how it would improve what I'm already doing.

[HWooldridge]

I have read many of the articles and a few things that stand out to me is the moisture during the mixing. The swiss booklet says they will use up to 10% moisture during the wheel milling. (Page 15) Most of what I've read here is about dry milling in a ball mill but that is about the only option without a large investment. It may be comparing apples to oranges but I'm continually thinking about the moisture during the pressing. Normally I use 4.8% on newly balled powder, 4.5% when reprocessing the fines from previously balled powder. If I go higher than that I'll get excess bleeding of water (and I'm sure a portion of the potassium nitrate) out the bottom of my die using a 20 ton jack. Page 19 describes their roller press where the powder is compressed into a cake that is about .5 to 1 cm thick. Page 20 states that the powder from the wheel mill, being low density, is compressed 35 to 40% reduction in volume. The densification and consolidation of the powder doesn't require a great deal of pressure for a period of time as with a plate press but depends on the loss of moisture through evaporation to complete the mechanical strength in the grains. I'm sure I'm compressing my green powder way more than the 35 to 40%. What I've been doing seems to have been working, but would more moisture and less compression work better? I'm trying to wrap my mind around this new information and comprehend how it would improve what I'm already doing.

I tend to press pucks with too much moisture but based on these notes, I think it makes sense to use nitrate “liquor” instead of distilled water. Like you mentioned, process on the wet side but offset the potential for loss.

With regard to wheel milling, I might suggest looking up DIY sand mullers on Youtube. I suspect a very serviceable unit can be made using spring tension on the caster, rather than having to source extremely heavy rollers. I think they can be used safely if the producer sticks to making no more than a pound or two at a time, especially since a muller type mill should produce a higher quality green meal in less time than a ball mill.