My homemade black powder

[2TM101]

I have an unlimited supply of Cardboard. Even if this gives me the same performance as my Crimson powder its what I will use in the future as it is free and you can't beat free. My paint can batch was done in 20 minutes and the dutch oven was done in an hour, so even the propane cost is not much. From what I now know I can mill it all for three days instead of one (no more work) and make up for the mediocre carbon source.

I'm still coming back from the range with the shot up target frame stakes. I cut them into 6" pieces and leave them in a plastic milk crate (does milk still come in those?) to just season. The sawdust from that gets added to cardboard for my charcoal run.

Side note - even on a slightly windy day the bottom of my container goes to 600+ while the top is in the low 200's Is this from wind or am I trying to cook it too fast? With the paint can I cook it on its side and use pliers to rotate it every ten minutes or so. Can't do that with the dutch oven.

[DoubleBuck]

I just got done reading a few facts on KNO3. Two sites said it is hygroscopic to about 0.03% at 80% relative humidity, over 50 days. I'm not sure if that is supposed to be 3%, which I assume they meant. .03% would be nearly zero. I would think that would not clump the Nitrate.
3% probably would, and most of it I have seen stored in open bins under roofs, have outer layer clumps. 50 pound bags are generally clumped if stored very long, without plastic liners.
When weighing both it and the Charcoal, which I have read will absorb 10% and more, of its weight from humidity; I would think drying to get accurate measurements of both, would be called for. A pound of powder could be off by at least 3% in KNO3, and by10%, in charcoal. I would think that would make a difference in outcomes. It could make over a 10 gram difference on the KNO3 and almost a 7 gram difference in Charcoal weight on a pound of powder of 75-15-10 recipe.
The industry report I read on Charcoal said they recommended leaving charcoal sealed until cooled to ambient temperature, and processed in a very low humidity environment, to keep moisture contamination down. Charcoal is most hygroscopic when cooling down, especially in high humidity.

[DoubleBuck]

2TM101;
I saw a guy carrying several of those milk crates by dolly, into a store, just a few days ago.
Yes, you can rotate the retort any direction you need, including upside down; as often as needed.
You might try what a few of us have done, and build a wire mesh or other insulator, between the retort inside, and the wood or TP, or what ever you are using. Let the retort act as an oven, instead of getting too hot here, and too cold, there. I would think the Dutch Oven would be a better retort, after it gets up to temperature. It may take longer, but heat may be more even. Good luck, and post your results, if you would.
ETA: I just re-read your post and you were not asking but stating you did roll the paint can. Generally, so do I.

[Graysmoke]

Today I mixed an 8 oz batch and used the Kn03 that I dried. It has not caked on the back wall so far (6 hrs milling) so drying did the deed. I will dry the prills before milling to powder, I found some very hard prills not broken down when I screened the potassium. I am going to use an old grain grinder on the next try before milling to powder.
So… dry, grind, mill then mix to the next batch.
Graysmoke

[HamGunner]

2TM101 You might try what a few of us have done, and build a wire mesh or other insulator, between the retort inside, and the wood or TP, or what ever you are using. Let the retort act as an oven, instead of getting too hot here, and too cold, there. I would think the Dutch Oven would be a better retort, after it gets up to temperature. It may take longer, but heat may be more even.

I bake biscuits and pies, etc. in a Dutch Oven at deer camp and one has to keep watch closely on the heat unless spacer plates are used inside the Dutch Oven to prevent things from touching the bottom and sides of the oven and getting burned on the edges. The internal heat is fairly even, but the internal surfaces of the oven itself are very hot, of course.

If I can place a pan of biscuits, bread, pies, etc. suspended on a perforated spacer inside a Dutch Oven with out burning, then certainly charcoal should be able to heat evenly in such a manner, only using a bit more heat.

That is basically what I do when I char my wood or TP inside a big pressure pan. The material to be charred is only subjected to the internal heat of the pressure pan and not the insides of the pan, and I bring the temperature up slow enough that the material can gather up heat through and through before slowly increasing the temperature on up to the charring point. I regulate the fire (propane cooker) and keep tabs on the internal temperature via a thermometer placed down through the pressure pan vent hole and into the center of the wood or TP.

I certainly can not knock "Jake" on Utube for much, as he constantly has proven that his methods work, but I do not understand how he can make charcoal without over charring at least half of it, when he just puts his wood or TP inside a paint can and tosses it into his stove directly onto the coals and lets the fire burn out. OH, WELL. Can not say much if it works for him. And I guess it does.

[Vettepilot]

I haven't made any BP in a while. The "Too hot for man nor beast" season here is about 8 months long. But last I did, I suddenly encountered some terrible problems with clumping. It's so aggravating; you open the mill jar and find it all clumped and you don't know how many hours of the milling were actually "milling"! Banging on the jar did not seem to help.

Making sure the mill is level is one tip. I think I traced my sudden onset problem to my switch to rice starch binder. That is GREAT stuff, but I think I will only add it for the last hour next time. It is quite dry here, but I'm going to dry the ingredients next time anyway as well.

Great work on the testing formulas!! Actually, great work on everything guys!! Well done! Such a fantastic thread!

Thanks Hamgunner for the primer info. Do I read into it that you're an old hot rodder too?? 55 years into that here... cool stuff, albeit expensive!! Working on an OBS GMC pickup resto here, and a C4 Corvette big block 5 speed conversion...

Party on guys!!

;~)

Vettepilot

[HamGunner]

I have a dedicated coffee grinder for grinding the Potassium nitrate works really good. If you try to grind too much at one time not so good. I already burned the motor up on one.
i hold the door cracked open buy sticking a wooden spoon between the oven and the door.

I also have burned up an electric coffee grinder already and learned to fill it only about half full. The prill is heavy. It does come out really fine though, but I then screen it through my 40 mesh screen to weed out any larger pieces that need reground. I would use a finer screen if I had one, but most of what falls through is extra fine anyway.

After baking in the oven, some has to be sort of scraped off of the cookie sheets. It crushes up easily though, so I crush it all right out of the oven with a rolling pen and that seems to make it even finer powder.

I dry it in the oven using the wooden spoon trick as well. That is how I make jerky in the oven too.

[greyhawk]

I also have burned up an electric coffee grinder already and learned to fill it only about half full. The prill is heavy. It does come out really fine though, but I then screen it through my 40 mesh screen to weed out any larger pieces that need reground. I would use a finer screen if I had one, but most of what falls through is extra fine anyway.

After baking in the oven, some has to be sort of scraped off of the cookie sheets. It crushes up easily though, so I crush it all right out of the oven with a rolling pen and that seems to make it even finer powder.

I dry it in the oven using the wooden spoon trick as well. That is how I make jerky in the oven too.

I use greenhouse grade soluble nitrate - always screen it before use and gets about a half teaspoon per pound of hard white granules, they are a different colour to the proper product - no idea what it is (could even be prilled stuff contaminating the soluble) I toss it, no big loss, I dont pregrind, the soluble grains are quite soft compared to prill.
My reserve stuff is stored in original bag unopened in a tape sealed plastic trolley box - comes out fresh, any fertiliser I ever bought in bags stored long term in open air (even in a dry building) would turn into a brick.

[2TM101]

2TM101;
I saw a guy carrying several of those milk crates by dolly, into a store, just a few days ago.
Yes, you can rotate the retort any direction you need, including upside down; as often as needed.
You might try what a few of us have done, and build a wire mesh or other insulator, between the retort inside, and the wood or TP, or what ever you are using. Let the retort act as an oven, instead of getting too hot here, and too cold, there. I would think the Dutch Oven would be a better retort, after it gets up to temperature. It may take longer, but heat may be more even. Good luck, and post your results, if you would.
ETA: I just re-read your post and you were not asking but stating you did roll the paint can. Generally, so do I.

Next time I am at home depot I'll get a piece of metal chicken wire or such and line the Dutch oven with it. I was reading 624 degrees on the bottom while the lid was showing 220 or so, but thats an outside reading on a windy day. It may need a spacer for it to heat evenly as unlike the paint can I can't move it once the heat is on. I did this batch at night so I could see if anything got red hot and nothing seemed to, but it still made charcoal. The paint can seems to actually work better & faster but I keep reading it will fall apart after a half dozen uses or so. I hope not, it works very well.

My Cardboard batch looks good, but I have not used it yet. Its a dark grey and not black like the Skylighter airfloat I had been using. I did another batch using the contents from the paper shredder at work, thinking I would give them the ultimate in document destruction. Bad idea, it seems they occasionally shred the plastic document protectors along with the paper. I knew something was wrong by the smell of the vent smoke. I may still try to use it but I already know it won't be good.

I'm hoping the cardboard charcoal is at least mediocre+. Amazon TP is cheap but you can't beat free and I never have to store source material as I have unlimited free cardboard.

[DoubleBuck]

2TM101;
I'm on my second paint can, and made several batches with the first. It didn't fall apart but the lid was getting pretty loose, and I had several empty paint cans, so I replaced it. Indian Joe was saying pretty long ago, that he uses small self tapping screws to secure the lid. That sounds like it would work good. You can buy new cans where they sell paint, but if you can dive a dumpster around a construction area, you'll find them readily available, for free. Unless they are some of the new cans with plastic bottoms. Why they did that, is anybody's guess. Used cans will have to be heated and scrubbed out, to clean them up, but free is good.
I hope your batches come out good. If they aren't, at least you got some experience with them, to help your methods be more reliable. Good luck!

[Linstrum]

Today, September 21, 2024, at the end of the day, this thread will have been in existence for 4,999 days. See the site below, and don't forget to check the box that includes the end date in the days between two dates calculations. Handy site!

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

January 15, 2011, was when atom73 posted the first post that started all of us on this great adventure:

"Used my homemade black powder in my TC black diamond express today with some boolits sent to me by someone on the site. The powder performed really well with both 450gr .505 and .245gr power belts. The recoil was a little lighter than commercial powder but it had a nice crack to it. Much less smoke than other powers that I have used with still a very satisfiying smell.
Mike"

Some time back on another thread (I don't recall which one, or the date), somebody posted that this thread was pretty much "a pain between the hip pockets" to find anything about how to go about making home made black powder. Well, yeah, but all you have to do is ask! I guarantee that there'll be at least a dozen responses about how to do that by the next morning. Yep.

[DoubleBuck]

THANKS, LINSTRUM!!! Good on ya!
I've been reading the thread, since 2017, and finally joined so I could comment. Probably a lot of guys wish I had just continued reading. haha

[Nobade]

The other day I pulled out a can of powder I made in 2012. I didn't remember that I had been doing this for so long. It worked but was pretty bad, perfect for my friend's little cannon. We sure have learned a lot since then! This thread has been a great place to be for quite a long time. I sure appreciate all the contributions everyone here have made to it over the years.

[SkyKid]

Today, September 21, 2024, at the end of the day, this thread will have been in existence for 4,999 days. See the site below, and don't forget to check the box that includes the end date in the days between two dates calculations. Handy site!

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

January 15, 2011, was when atom73 posted the first post that started all of us on this great adventure:

"Used my homemade black powder in my TC black diamond express today with some boolits sent to me by someone on the site. The powder performed really well with both 450gr .505 and .245gr power belts. The recoil was a little lighter than commercial powder but it had a nice crack to it. Much less smoke than other powers that I have used with still a very satisfiying smell.
Mike"

Some time back on another thread (I don't recall which one, or the date), somebody posted that this thread was pretty much "a pain between the hip pockets" to find anything about how to go about making home made black powder. Well, yeah, but all you have to do is ask! I guarantee that there'll be at least a dozen responses about how to do that by the next morning. Yep.

They can do what I did
Read all 440 pages

[henryinpanama]

To say I am stoked is an understatement. Encouraged by my previous tests showing TP powder to be faster than Cedar, I decided to try a different formula. 78-12-15 seems to be very successful for others, but I thought if we can increase velocity by increasing KNO3 and reducing carbon (fuel), what would happen if I increased KNO3 but kept Carbon the same. Since I see nothing magical about the number 100, I decided to measure in parts instead of percentages. That makes the math a whole lot simpler, and we still end up with 100%. Here are the results of my mix of 90 parts K, 15 parts C, and 10 parts Sulfur. All shots from my Uberti NMA with Howells .45C conversion cylinder. All charges weighed.

30gr TP 230gr bullet 75-15-10 712, 711, 686, 672, 667 Avg: 689 *for comparison
30gr TP 230gr bullet 90-15-10 719, 748, 744, 785, 713 Avg: 742
35gr TP 230gr bullet 90-15-10 851, 838, 830, 864, 794 Avg: 836

The 35gr loads were highly compressed.

[Trapper-Jack]

The math works out to 78.3% KNO3 for your mix. That seems to be in the ballpark of a popular mix from my powder testing. You have seriously increased the velocity and efficiency of your powder. Congratulations!

[almar]

With all this talk about TP i decided to make some BP again. I just made a batch of charcoal using microcrystalline cellulose cooked at 565 deg. the ash content reads 0% at the moment on my ohaus .02 +/- grain scale. i never saw this % of ash content before. I am about to mill a batch of 75-15 -10.

edit: 0% dosent mean there is no ash, it just means that it under what my scale can read.

[Vettepilot]

Next time I am at home depot I'll get a piece of metal chicken wire or such and line the Dutch oven with it. I was reading 624 degrees on the bottom while the lid was showing 220 or so, but thats an outside reading on a windy day. It may need a spacer for it to heat evenly as unlike the paint can I can't move it once the heat is on. I did this batch at night so I could see if anything got red hot and nothing seemed to, but it still made charcoal. The paint can seems to actually work better & faster but I keep reading it will fall apart after a half dozen uses or so. I hope not, it works very well.

My Cardboard batch looks good, but I have not used it yet. Its a dark grey and not black like the Skylighter airfloat I had been using. I did another batch using the contents from the paper shredder at work, thinking I would give them the ultimate in document destruction. Bad idea, it seems they occasionally shred the plastic document protectors along with the paper. I knew something was wrong by the smell of the vent smoke. I may still try to use it but I already know it won't be good.

I'm hoping the cardboard charcoal is at least mediocre+. Amazon TP is cheap but you can't beat free and I never have to store source material as I have unlimited free cardboard.

Some things, (many?), are discovered quite by accident. The story has it that Nitrocellulose was discovered, apparently, when the scientist Schonbein used his wife's cotton apron to clean up some spilled Nitric and Sulphuric acids. They were somewhat surprised that later, when dry, it went POOF!

Maybe your plastic contaminated charcoal will go Nuclear!!

;~)

Vettepilot

[Trapper-Jack]

Ok guys, today I finished testing my third charcoal, Sassafras. In effect it reinforced what I saw in the other two. Beginning with a blend of 75/15/10 I milled 100 grams, then I processed another 100 gram sample adding 1% to the KNO3 and removed the same from the charcoal. Each was milled approximately 24 hours, pressed with a 20 ton jack with 4.5% water added. They were then dried in my solar dryer (a shallow box with shelves and a pane of glass over the front) and left until the last sample of 80/10/10 quit losing weight. At that point I assumed that all the moisture was baked out of it that going to come out. The pucks were broken up, ground in a grain grinder and screened to pass the #20 screen and retained on a #30. I shot five shots of each blend and the curve basically did as the other two. Each series of weighed 60 grain charges for each blend increased to a point where it began falling off after that. Here are the averages.
75/15/10 - 1316 fps
76/14/10 - 1346.5 fps
77/13/10 - 1366.4 fps
78/12/10 - 1378.4 fps
79/11/10 - 1337 fps
80/10/10 - 1288.2 f[s
With the 78/12/10 blend of this charcoal the velocity peaked out and began losing ground after that. All of the extreme spreads were in the 20's except the final blend of 80/10/10 which was at 35 fps. This makes the third charcoal I've tested and each have had a different optimum point, 77, 78, and 79% KNO3. I'm thinking that depending on the fuel (charcoal) you're choose to use, you need to tweak the oxygen/fuel blend to get the most out of it. The 75/15/10 blend isn't the final recipe but the beginning point.

[LAGS]

Those blends seem good.
I think your next combination you should try is by dropping or increasing the Sulfur by say 1 point to see what effect that might have, or maybe drop the charcoal ratio if you use something like TP charcoal.
The volume of the TP charcoal is so great to the actual weight.
I think your Sassafras charcoal weight to volume is greater than Willow , Balsa or TP charcoal.