My homemade black powder

[LAGS]

I have the HF 20 ton press.
I can't say that it is better than the 12 ton since I never had the 12 ton.
But my compression capabilities are much higher.
I haven't got as high as 95% compression ratio yet.
But I am not spending all my time consintrating on trying to match factory powder.
85 % powder works great for my front stuffers , especially with 15% more powder.
But I can see why you want to match factory powder if you are shooting cartridge guns.
Besides, I got my press on sale years ago.
And it wasn't that much more than the wanted for the 12 ton model.

[FrankJD]

HF 20 ton is going for $250 now, though I can get if for $225.

[LAGS]

Wow, the price has gone up.
I paid $180 for mine years ago.
But I think that is still a good deal.

[Pioneer]

While I am not using a pressure gauge, I do try to keep the same amount of pressure from one compression of powder to the next by placing the same volume of powder in each layer and observing the depth of the compression of the punch. I pull the handle of the (claimed) 12 ton jack to the point that it does not want to compress any further and let it rest for a minute or so and compress it again and perhaps again after another minute wait until the punch reaches the approximate same depth into the die each time. Whatever I have reached, it should be fairly consistent at least.

That's how I've been doing mine. Seems to be working OK. Powder is plenty fast.

[HWooldridge]

Always go big or go home...I have a 50 ton Dake and rarely use the max capacity but nice to know it is available.

[FrankJD]

Always go big or go home...I have a 50 ton Dake and rarely use the max capacity but nice to know it is available.

I like yer thinking.

[Brimstone]

I seem to remember the length of stroke recommendation also mentioned weighing each charge to be pucked. In other words, if 450 grains of green powder meal compressed to a 1/4" and yielded 1.7 to 1.8 density, that could be replicated without using a pressure gauge.

This is what Capt FM Smith wrote in his book. It's how they did it. It's how I do it

[FrankJD]

Perhaps a pressure gauge is overkill, but I'd rather have a device's empirical data.

[DoubleBuck]

I use the compression measuring method. I usually press one puck or more singly, to check moisture content and compressibility; then put up to five weighed and spaced pucks worth. I find no reason not to use a gauge, and they may be more accurate. I just developed my method from trial and error. Thin pucks break up so easily, and dry quicker, is why I started pressing multiples. Plus, if you weigh each puck, before adding moisture, it is easy to weigh them to find when they are completely dry. One thing I've found though; each batch usually has different compression characteristics. I think this is mainly due to charcoal variances and moisture, but don't know if I'm right.
I agree with the 'go big, or go home' thought. You can always use less, but if you go small, you invariably need more. I don't think I've ever seen anyone build a shop that didn't later say, "I wish I had went bigger".

[FrankJD]

Good stuff, DB.

"Plus, if you weigh each puck, before adding moisture, it is easy to weigh them to find when they are completely dry. "

In the above, do you mean to weigh the meal (right out of the ball mill, and dry), then add some water, then compress to a puck, then weigh the puck after its dried out?

[indian joe]

I received two of the plastic discs with my Woody's die and that gives one three pucks per compression. I found that the pucks were a bit too thick and I thought I would try thinner pucks as they would be much easier to bust up and grind down so I got more discs and now do five pucks per compression. Thinner dry faster as well.

you can make extra divider discs from plastic ice cream tub or even milk jug plastic.

[HamGunner]

Yes, I made some extra dividers from plastic myself to see if I liked the thinner pucks and they worked okay. I found that the thinner pucks were so much easier to dry, crush, and screen down.

I only live 10 miles from Woody's so I just drove over there and had him make me up a few more delrin discs.

[FrankJD]

Yes, I made some extra dividers from plastic myself to see if I liked the thinner pucks and they worked okay. I found that the thinner pucks were so much easier to dry, crush, and screen down.

I only live 10 miles from Woody's so I just drove over there and had him make me up a few more delrin discs.

I ordered some extra Delrin spacers from Woody, along with his 3" puck die, so they'll come in handy.

How thin are you making yer pucks?

To load the puck die, are you measuring out the somewhat moist, clumpy meal with a scale?

If so, what weight are you targeting for your thin pucks?

[almar]

i bought and used the woodys pressure gauge for a good while before i realized that although the pressure was constant, my pucks density was not. so i now use weight and final volume in the die to aproximate the desired density, then fine tune and mark the piston where it meets the dies top edge for a fixed amount of weight. Slight variances wont make much difference so you just mix it the 2F, 3F etc together but mixing 1.8 density with 1.5 will be a little erratic IMO. I think that many here dont seem to have the same problems i have with my powder, if i max out the press i get density thats waaaay out there in the 2's...so small variables making a big difference forced me to do things differently.

[Vettepilot]

Hey there Almar. So, how much water/moisture do you add before pressing, and how does the weight thereof figure into your weight and density calcs?

I think you have a good method going. Going by pressure only, as you say, is going to have a lot of variability I believe.

Thanks!

Vettepilot

[DoubleBuck]

Good stuff, DB.

"Plus, if you weigh each puck, before adding moisture, it is easy to weigh them to find when they are completely dry. "

In the above, do you mean to weigh the meal (right out of the ball mill, and dry), then add some water, then compress to a puck, then weigh the puck after its dried out?

Frank;
I weigh all my ingredients before milling of course, but I weigh the total amount of meal after milling, to verify no differences. I was using pure lead balls in my mill and was getting lead weight gain on my meal. Double checking will also help to verify no added moisture weight, which is very possible where I live.
When I'm ready to make pucks, I personally add 4% of distilled water to 10 grams of meal, and press one puck. If ANY moisture comes out of the puck, or it leaves more than a slight moisture print on the backing plate, I cut my moisture back and press one more.
When the moisture is correct, I add that percentage of water to the whole container of meal. I've changed my procedure a bit, but used to weigh out one ounce of dry meal into small Dixie cups, then add the water to each cup. That way, I knew the dry weight of each puck. Now, I just get the right moisture in the whole batch, and make each puck a couple of non measured teaspoons full of meal. When I dry them, I start checking them until they quit loosing weight. I changed it so that all I need to know is when they are dry, instead of wasting my time being exact on each puck. That is just a matter of preference. I quit weighing each puck before pressing, when I started making four or five at a time. It's much faster to just check their weights, until they quit loosing weight when drying.
Some guys who live in damp climates have reported not having to use any water at all, to press pucks. I've only had that happen one time when it was raining here, and I left a container of meal uncovered for three days, to see how much moisture it did gain.
If you read the link that VettePilot posted a couple of days ago, one of the things they say is powder should not have more moisture than 7%, or it starts to hygroscopically affect KNO3 and causes powder to get erratic in different areas of the same batch.
Moisture control from beginning to end, seems to be critically important. I always heat dry my charcoal after grinding and heat dry my finished meal, before pressing, to try to keep my moisture as little as possible. I also heat dry my finished powder, before storing it.

[HamGunner]

How thin are you making yer pucks?

To load the puck die, are you measuring out the somewhat moist, clumpy meal with a scale?

If so, what weight are you targeting for your thin pucks?

My pucks end up right around 1/8" to 3/16". Some are a bit thicker on one side than the other, but that is probably because I don't always get the meal level for each layer.

I do not weigh my meal. I just measure out a large medicine type plastic cup level full, so it is measured by volume. Might not be the same weight from batch to batch if one batch has a smidgen more or less moisture, but the volume should be the same on all my batches. My finished powder almost always comes out near 92% of commercial BP weight. A volume setting that weighs 25 gr. of Goex by weight will meter my powder right at 23 gr. by weight.

Unlike almar I have never had a problem of getting my powder too dense as my 12 ton press is likely struggling to get 3,500 psi anyway. I just give the jack all it will handle, wait a minute, and hit it again until the compression is consistent with the previous compressions. Whatever the pressure is, it should be fairly consistent. Good enough for the girls I run with anyway.

[LAGS]

I by chance got higher density up to 95 % by a mistake.
I made a bunch of pucks out of 1/2 lb of powder.
I mistakenly grabbed the wrong batch , and broke up pucks that were not dried more than 4 hours in the recent cold weather.
I crushed the stuff up so it fit thru a #10 screen.
Then I put it back in the die and re pucked it without any more moisture.
When dried , the pucks ground into powder that was mostly 95% density.
The matching batch that was only pucked once came out to 85% density.
So double picking it seems like when you screen powder twice before drying it.
That double screening did jump the density up like 3 to 5 % over single screening.
Doing the double picking takes a lot longer , but seemed to be well worth trying again.

[almar]

Hey there Almar. So, how much water/moisture do you add before pressing, and how does the weight thereof figure into your weight and density calcs?

I think you have a good method going. Going by pressure only, as you say, is going to have a lot of variability I believe.

Thanks!

Vettepilot

I typically add very little in a 1 pound batch and mix it thoroughly. Just enough hard to explain but it makes the powder less dusty so to speak. When the pucks are fully dried, I measure the result and add or subtract a bit next time to adjust but you will get typically a range ie 1.58 to 1.65 for example. Some outliers in the upper range when I'm not paying attention. It takes 30 seconds or so under pressure and never apply to much. The low and slow cooked charcoal seems to be packed with creosote maybe that's a factor.

[Vettepilot]

Ok, thanks Almar. If I recall correctly, that's exactly when you started getting higher densities; when you started your low and slow charcoal cooking.

I still would like to build an electric kiln like yours someday, but just too much "on my plate" here. I think I need to clone myself...

No, all that would do is double the ideas for interesting stuff I'd like to do!!

;~)

Vettepilot