My homemade black powder

[indian joe]

Have shot quite a bit of chinese fireworks powder (4FA and 5FA) - i would rate it a tad more energetic than wano and a little more dirty - it was noticeably better under heavy boolits (500+ grain in 45/70) . that would make Wano not a sporting powder ?????????? -- the folk at wano would likely disagree ...................

[Brimstone]

DoubleBuck I keep Swiss and Goex on hand as control for my tests. 1.5FG Swiss and 2FG Goex. I look forward to testing the new Estes made Goex and test its characteristics. Digging through my notes.

My Hodgdon made Goex is dwindling to too little to shoot regularly but I have the velocity over the chronograph recorded so I can reference that data.
My standard test load is 40gr 2FG under a .490 ticking patched round ball from a 24" CVA Bobcat. Ticking patch lubed with homemade SPG.

I'm rounding these strings. These are also some of the better examples. I have some examples that are terrible with huge 100 fps+ deviation thanks to poor practices on my part. My lapses in good wiping and loading practice shouldn't reflect on the powder and I admit there are others vastly more attentive at loading than I who can attain even tighter deviation. I'm happy if I can keep it within 50 fps deviation.

Goex 2FG/40gr charge = 980-1050 fps @ 25 feet.

40gr of Swiss 1.5 will toss the same ticking patched balls out of the same rifle at 1,180-1,200 fps over the chronograph. No it isn't 2FG but it's what I have. Pretty consistent stuff.

My Southern Red Cedar powder (75/15/10) 2FG/40gr charge was tossing the same balls out at 1,070-1,100 fps. Fouling was about like Swiss. Damp and fairly soft.

My Eastern White Cedar powder, (75/15/10) 2FG/40gr charge tosses the ticking patched ball out at 1,140-1,170 fps. Fouling quite wet and soft. Very easily wiped.

My Western Red Alder (78/12/10 lean mix) 2FG/40gr charge tossed the ticking patched ball at 1,200-1,260 fps. The fouling of this was horrendous. All light grey in color tone. The negative characteristics are entirely my fault and easily fixed.

I cooked this charcoal "dry", as Linstrum says, dead burned. No creosote. Coupling a lean mix with no creosote and the results are like lining the bore with glass every time you pull the trigger. Sopping wet patches were required to clear the bore prior to reloading.
I intend to revisit Western Red Alder in the very near future and char at 590F. I use bags of wood chips (actual chips not pellets) from northern Oregon meant for smoking trout and salmon to make this charcoal.

Oh I forgot Southern Red Maple. These grow all over Florida like mad. During my Road and Bridge days I cut and chipped few dump truck loads of this away from the right of way.

Anyway, Southern Red Maple (75/15/10) 2FG/40gr tossed the .490 ticking patched round ball out the muzzle at 950-1080 fps. Fouling characteristics were identical to Hodgdon made Goex. Supposedly they used Maple so seeing the two powders virtually identical in all respects my cousin dubbed it Fakex.

I'm editing and updating as I dig through stuff. 7 years, going on 8 years of scribbling stuff down, what flash drives have what on them? Looking for my notes on Plum, Water Oak and something else we tested.

[HWooldridge]

Some of the opinions on ball mills vs. wheel mills from older sources may be based in, “we have always done it that way”. Since production quantities of BP were traditionally made using wheel mills, it’s a logical jump to say ball mills are not optimal, but lots of people here have made superior powder using the latter so there is no debate on that subject. My question is whether your various recipes would yield even better results in a muller, i.e., a proper comparison is to use superior charcoal and the other ingredients in both processes then compare outcomes.

I made a brief comment earlier about using sand muller designs to make BP and I still stand by that theory. I think a wheel method can be created which will be safe and effective but the ball mills will always be cheaper and easier to utilize, so wheel mills will fall by the wayside if the commercial makers stop using them, whether superior or not.

[Brimstone]

Someone will have to try to clone Swiss. Then we'll know. I'm not taking a side, so many things in this art has surprised me that until a ball flies over a chronograph, we just don't know

[DoubleBuck]

someone will have to try to clone swiss. Then we'll know. I'm not taking a side, so many things in this art has surprised me that until a ball flies over a chronograph, we just don't know

amen

Brimstone, good post on your bottom line results.
I noticed you use 40 grain charges, on your tests. Is there a particular reason you use that size?
I use 60 grain charges on all my heads up tests, just because that was the manufacturer's recommendation, on my first rifle of .58 caliber. When I got the TC Renegade .50, from my friend, I just continued with the 60 grain tests.
Another question, which I didn't see you address, was or is, density. Do you shoot for a particular density, or just press it and forget it?
We've talked about it recently and several times over the years. When you find your notes, we need to get everyone to add theirs and make a page of nothing but charcoal results. That way, if someone questions the viability of a certain wood, we may be able to point them to the page.

[BadgerShooter]

Has anyone tried a bar or rod mill instead of a ball mill? Lead balls are easy, but I'm curious about brass or bronze rods. We used to use ceramic balls to mill porcelain frit for washing machine tubs and tops. We milled a ton every couple days.

[HWooldridge]

Has anyone tried a bar or rod mill instead of a ball mill? Lead balls are easy, but I'm curious about brass or bronze rods. We used to use ceramic balls to mill porcelain frit for washing machine tubs and tops. We milled a ton every couple days.

I use a bunch of cutup bronze and brass pieces in one of my tumblers. Can’t tell if it’s “better” than lead but it does work.

[almar]

be careful with porcelain. You have to know what type it is. Some spark. There is a give and a take for different media, i tried porcelain and it works well enough but takes a bit longer to get the job done i believe, its lighter though and probably better for those using a weak motor and it dosen't wear as fast as lead. I settled on high antimony lead balls.

[Trapper-Jack]

I'm using a bunch of pistol cartridge cases filled with lead. I inherited some that are about 9mm size that I couldn't use. They seem to be working well.

[mmb617]

I've been using .45 caliber FMJ bullets and they haven't shown any noticeable wear yet. I started with lead balls and they had noticeable wear after only a couple uses.

[henryinpanama]

I have a lot of Daisy glass slingshot ammo, 1/2 inch. Has anyone tried anything like this for milling? I'm guessing it would increase milling time, but probably similar to ceramics..

[LAGS]

I , Personally would not use Glass to tumble my powder.
I would be afraid that the glass could chip and possibly cause a spark.
I am not sure it would.
But I also don't want to see the other side of the moon.
But that is just me.
I put safety first.

[henryinpanama]

Thanks, I don't want any unintentional booms, either. I have a batch of ceramic tumbling media, which has never been opened because of the warnings about ceramics possible sparking. I figured glass would be safe. Does anyone know how to tell if a particular ceramic might spark?

[HWooldridge]

For those of you who tumble powder after it’s pressed and ground, try using an old cloth shot bag inside the tumbler barrel. Powder goes inside the bag, then tie the end and tumble - catches a lot of dust.

[KenH]

Using a 45-70 StarLine brass I loaded 3 rounds of 45-70 with GOEX Fg powder, and 3 rounds with my homemade black. All at 56.5 grains with 348 grain cast bullets. The volume was slightly different. 56.5 grains of homemade filled 45-70 case "almost" to the brim (Maybe 1/8"?). 56.5 grains of GOEX Fg was perhaps almost 1/8" below that? Maybe. A compressed load for both powders which is what'd desired with BP.

Here's the results for 56.5 grains of FFg homemade BP:
Velocity Bullet Weight
1228 348
1191 348
1163 348

Here's the results for 56.5 grains of GOEX Fg
Velocity Bullet Weight
1093 348
1104 348
1127 348

I think the reason my homemade BP is faster is the GOEX is Fg which is slower powder than FFg which is what I graded my homemade BP to. I wish I had used FFg for the GOEX, I think the results would have been pretty close. BUT - all in all, I'm pleased with the results. I was not able to check accuracy with anything. It was misting rain during the tests, so we stepped outside and show thru the chrono into a dirt bank.

I've still got LOTS of learning to do.

[LAGS]

Thank you very much.
These types of comparisons show that our Homemade BP can come constantly close to most factory powders "If " done by Weight not Volume.

[almar]

Nope.. by volume too. I never really polished mine though...maybe that's one of the reasons.

[DoubleBuck]

I've still got LOTS of learning to do.

Ken, it looks to me like you're doing something right! Congratulations on the results! If you don't mind, what Charcoal wood did you choose? Thanks for the post, it was good to see!

[Brimstone]

DoubleBuck, I went with 40gr charges after running low on some powder for a control test, may have been the Goex. I don't remember. I just never changed the charge after that.

As to density. My target is 1.7 - 1.8 g/cc. 3" PVC die 6" long. 3" discs to separate the pucks and an A-36 steel ram. 12 ton Harbor Freight shop press.

500 gram charges is my standard charge for the column.

Funny story. I was using the 6 ton A frame press. It was small and took up such little room. I was using 2" pvc and a very short setup, not much height under that little press.

I was really cranking down on this thing, I didn't understand at the time the importance of DWELL TIME. You know, press and let it settle, then apply more pressure and again let it settle. Nah.

BOOM! I'm seeing my disappointed guardian angel, my obituary, my buddies laughing as they toss a pink ladies toy in my casket... then realize something is flying around the shop.

The bolt holding the A frame press together had shattered, flew mere inches past my head, slammed into the roof, the beam and into my milling machine. I hadn't grenaded myself, at least not above the underwear.

[KenH]

Ken, it looks to me like you're doing something right! Congratulations on the results! If you don't mind, what Charcoal wood did you choose? Thanks for the post, it was good to see!

It's some charcoal I ordered on line already in the "air float" form. I'm pretty sure it's cedar, white cedar? Red Cedar? Not sure which. It sure does work better than the oak charcoal I used from my Green Egg sack of charcoal.

I did the normal 75-15-10 ratio in a Harbor Freight tumbler with mix of .50 cal cast lead bullets and .36 cal round lead balls. Tumbled for 6 or so hours, then damp a tad and pressed in my 16 ton press to get 2" diameter by 1/4" thick pucks. Only held under pressure for perhaps a minute (or less) since the hydraulic forging press releases pressure as soon as I let go the lever. Allow the pucks to dry a day or so, then break up and run thru Hand coffee grinder mill with Ceramic Burrs. Screened best I could to FFg size using 16 mesh screen.

Anyway - that's how I did it. still work to go getting less fines from each batch. Of course, the fines can be repressed so they're not lost.