My homemade black powder

[StevenDJ]

LAGS, that's probably the most sensible thing I've heard in a long time. Sometimes the simple solution is the best. I guess the 'normal' measurement is really just based on an arbitrary figure so there is no need to chase this perceived problem forever.

Although your density problem is solved, I'm going to try for a little higher density again as my powder is around 0.86 g/cc and I am about to start loading cartridges. I finally found my black powder gun! It is a Savage 219 chambered in 25-20. The cartridge is tiny and I can only fit about 13g of my powder( to the base of the neck)into a cartridge that traditionally held 20g. It will be a perfect size gun for ise my little farm which means I can test things without going to the local range which is only open on Sundays.

[Sandro_ventania]

Lags, good solution you adopted. Here I prefer eppendorf tubes with heavy loads. They are practical to use and guarantee accuracy.

[Sandro_ventania]

LAGS, that's probably the most sensible thing I've heard in a long time. Sometimes the simple solution is the best. I guess the 'normal' measurement is really just based on an arbitrary figure so there is no need to chase this perceived problem forever.

Although your density problem is solved, I'm going to try for a little higher density again as my powder is around 0.86 g/cc and I am about to start loading cartridges. I finally found my black powder gun! It is a Savage 219 chambered in 25-20. The cartridge is tiny and I can only fit about 13g of my powder( to the base of the neck)into a cartridge that traditionally held 20g. It will be a perfect size gun for ise my little farm which means I can test things without going to the local range which is only open on Sundays.

25-20 ...I already said here that I would love to have that caliber! Make powder especially for him...press very thin discs, 2 or 3mm and very little water. This way I guarantee you can get up to 2g/cc. Use 4F powder, it seems best for the caliber. Here I am itching, thinking about making a .22 conical muzzleloader, to shoot at cans.

[indian joe]

I may not be doing things right,
But I did a calculation of the density of my compressed pucks.
They came out around 92% compression.
But , when I broke up the pucks , ground them and screened them to each grain size. My grinders of powder came out to 85 to 88 % comparison to granular Goex.
I am not trying to get all my powder to perfectly match up to commercial powder.
I just need to know what the comparison is like so I have an idea on how much volume matches the weight of the factory powders that I have and still use.

We always used single cut measures for muzzleloaders mostly spare brass cases (cut down if needed)- I solder a loop of copper wire on the base and the measure stays tied to the possibles bag by a leather thong - use screened powder in the ML and will continue to do that - its running about 72-75% density so we made new measures - have a couple for flintlocks made from drilled out horn tips (looks a bit more "kosher" than a brass case)

Centerfires ? using corned powder at about 92-93% densith I weigh charges for the serious ones (38/55, 45/70, 45/75), short cases (32/20, 357, 38/40, 44/40) I just line em up on the front of the bench and eyeball the charge from a plastic squeeze bottle with a pouring spout on it (my original black powder 1969 came in those bottles so I figure its safe) - we run these "pistol calibers" about two mm down from full to the brim, finish off with a compression die - pay attention it not difficult to stay within about a one grain variance this way = quick and easy!

We use screened powder in the cap and ball pistols (4 colt repros) just fill the cylinder flush and press it down with the loading lever before dropping the ball in - have moved the Walker down to Fg - Da boy was shooting 65 grains of Goex 5FA in it - loosened things up a bit - after I rebuilt it for him we toned it back a little with the coarser powder - will keep shooting screened in these guns, its much easier to make. The guns like it .

[DoubleBuck]

I shot the new (to me) brass framed Pietta .44 today, for the first time. My flask nozzle dropped an average of 19.4 grains on ten drops of reprocessed fines; so that was how I loaded the cylinder. After shooting three cylinders full, and satisfied I wouldn't shoot my chronograph, I set it up and ran the first cylinder load. It had the most even set I've ever chronographed on any session. Six shots were 528; 525;525; 525; 512; and 528. I've never had three duplicates. The six averaged 523.83 with a ES of 16. If I could have thrown out the 512, the five remaining had an ES of 3, and that is some kind of record for me.
In four cylinder loads, I had three or four errors and three shots that went over 600 fps, with the highest of 630. Don't know how that happened, but that was what it read. The pistol seemed to do very well, with that load and the reprocessed fines. Accurate, too.
It was a good day on the hill. My neighbor brought me a whole basket full of quail and pheasant vacuum packed and frozen, from a week hunt in Kansas. Life is good.
Carry on!

[StevenDJ]

25-20 ...I already said here that I would love to have that caliber! Make powder especially for him...press very thin discs, 2 or 3mm and very little water. This way I guarantee you can get up to 2g/cc. Use 4F powder, it seems best for the caliber. Here I am itching, thinking about making a .22 conical muzzleloader, to shoot at cans.

Thanks for your ideas and for being excited for me. I'm waiting on a few components to arrive. Hopefully they will be here soon! I'll reportback with data.

[StevenDJ]

short cases (32/20, 357, 38/40, 44/40) ... we run these "pistol calibers" about two mm down from full to the brim, finish off with a compression die.

Indian Joe, I'd be interested to here a little more details about your 32-20. The cartridge is pretty small and I am concerned about bulging the cases if I compress too much. Do you load this cartridge 2mm from the top? The 85g bullets I have ordered will probably fill the whole case neck. Do you think I should compress half the neck? More? Less? 2mm on the 45-70 is a lot less compression than on a small cartridge.

DoubleBuck, thanks for posting the data. What bullet mass were you shooting? Glad for you that life is good.

[indian joe]

Indian Joe, I'd be interested to here a little more details about your 32-20. The cartridge is pretty small and I am concerned about bulging the cases if I compress too much. Do you load this cartridge 2mm from the top? The 85g bullets I have ordered will probably fill the whole case neck. Do you think I should compress half the neck? More? Less? 2mm on the 45-70 is a lot less compression than on a small cartridge.
2 mm from the top would be too much with commercial powder

DoubleBuck, thanks for posting the data. What bullet mass were you shooting? Glad for you that life is good.

......

[armouredtrooper]

Ive been producing BP for my Muzzle loader for a few years now. I'm still experimentinmg with different components like types of willow. The only item I avent done is compress the powder into pucks.

[HighUintas]

Lags, have you tried your thin aluminum for the plate under the die yet?

I had been pressing my pucks using a thin aluminum plate from the second hand store. I think they're possibly old mess kit plates or pie plates. Under full pressure, the pucks would deform and stretch the aluminum, sometimes even tearing holes in the plate! I had decided that the next time I make some I would put the die directly on the thick steel plate that came with the press.

I'm curious to see how it works for you

[LAGS]

I have pressed a half pound of powder using that aluminum plate under the die so far.
It has worked pretty good.
Now my aluminum plate is the bottom of a Cat Food can that I pounded more flat.
I considered using a piece of Pie Plate for doing the same thing.
But it just seems a little too thin and soft.
But I may still try using one to see if it does work.
The pucks did come out harder using that Cat Food aluminum so far.
Using the milk jug material spacers did seem to still work.
But mine only lasted for three pressings before they squished down and expanded a bit where they didn’t fit the puck die as well.
But they are easy to make new ones cheap enough.

[HWooldridge]

The easiest way to make puck dividers is to part off discs on a lathe from the right sized stock. If a lathe is not available, I might try cutting them out of substantial sheet metal with a hole saw (I doubt the drilled hole in the center will make much difference) - or using a band saw to cut out blanks then clean up the edges on a belt sander. Thin sheet metal or plastic is certainly going to move around under a few tons of pressure.

[DoubleBuck]

StevenDJ;
.451 Speer Round Balls, 138 grain; with Old Wonder Wads, and CCI #11 caps.
My wife said they made beautiful lead Sun Flowers. ha

[indian joe]

The easiest way to make puck dividers is to part off discs on a lathe from the right sized stock. If a lathe is not available, I might try cutting them out of substantial sheet metal with a hole saw (I doubt the drilled hole in the center will make much difference) - or using a band saw to cut out blanks then clean up the edges on a belt sander. Thin sheet metal or plastic is certainly going to move around under a few tons of pressure.

huge thumbs down on this -- thin sheet metal or plastic that moves under pressure is exactly what IS wanted - they are only dividers between the layers of material - believe you are overthinking this
just my two cents

[HWooldridge]

huge thumbs down on this -- thin sheet metal or plastic that moves under pressure is exactly what IS wanted - they are only dividers between the layers of material - believe you are overthinking this
just my two cents

Personally, I don’t use dividers - just make one puck at a time since it just doesn’t take that much time. But if I did, I would not want sheet metal or thin plastic, at least .060” thick and a slide fit inside the outer sleeve.

[StevenDJ]

StevenDJ;
.451 Speer Round Balls, 138 grain; with Old Wonder Wads, and CCI #11 caps.
My wife said they made beautiful lead Sun Flowers. ha

WOW! I think your wife is correct. I could imagine this as an artwork in a big city gallery.

[Graysmoke]

On pressing, I had a very hard time with my die yesterday. Every time I used the 40mm the piston would get seized in the bore from squeeze by powder. This was so bad I had to bust the puck and use a brass slug and ball peen hammer to reverse the piston. I ended up finishing with my 30mm even though it has leak by it just needs a slight rap to retract. First time ever for this anyone else?
Graysmoke.

[DoubleBuck]

Graysmoke;
That's a common problem, and there are a couple of things that may help you. Put a spacer or two between the piston and powder, and that can help the blow by reduce. This is where the milk jug type soft plastic can work to your advantage, cut to a tight fit. If that doesn't make the blow-by manageable, you might try the wide type Teflon tape around your piston, to take up a couple thousandths clearance. If these don't help, you may have to get your die reworked, or get a new one made. Others may have more ideas to help you.

[HamGunner]

When I started corning BP, I bought a 3" stainless steel die with a precision fitting aluminum piston from Woody's along with five thin Delrin spacers and I apply pressure to the press with a 20 ton jack. That should give close to 5,600 psi.

I get no leak-by from this die and piston and no deformation of the spacers. Delrin plastic seems to be very hard and dense material.

I place the die on a piece of flat steel that I place directly on the press pressure plates. Meal is poured into the die and leveled and one Delrin spacer placed on top of five layers of green meal. The sixth layer of meal gets the piston placed on top of it, giving me six thin pucks after compression.

I have never had any leakage or flow-by from this set up as it is engineered for close tolerances. No flex in the Delrin spacers that I can tell as the press does not seem to have any pressure let off or certainly not enough for me to be able to see without an actual dial indicator.

The pucks have to be hydraulically removed from the die as they are certainly exerting pressure upon the sides of the die after compression.

[LAGS]

I have had to use a PVC spacer under my die to press the pucks out of my die.
My spacer was just made out of a piece of the right interior sized PVC pipe , glued into a PVC collar or coupler to make the spacer thicker .
I then cut it to about 1” long so I didn’t have to major adjust my press when I pressed out the pucks after I did the compression .
I use this with my two “Fly” dies