My homemade black powder

[indian joe]

Guys, now I've got a question or three. Has anyone else tried cooking Brown charcoal? I'm wondering if charcoal cooked at a low temperature (550-<600°f) do you still use the smoke to determine thorough cooking, or is time the only concern? Do you have to remove it, cool it and check the wood, (like I did) or what would be the factor you're looking for to determine when it is done?
I cooked some last fall and it turned out pretty good, but I had to check it two times to see if it was done. That means cooling the retort down so it won't ignite the coal and then check it for done, and if it's not (mine wasn't) heat it back to cook temp and cook it awhile longer.
As I said, my charcoal came out good, but that I got from Almar was not really black at all but more golden brown. And, the tests I did on it told me that it was really good.
Just to be clear, I've always cooked my charcoal on an open or semi open fire in my wood stove, or homemade bbq pit/smoker. I cook it until the vent lights and watch for it to die off to a small flame. The English at Waltham Abbey watched for the vent flame to have a 'violet' color; which I have seen, but did not that day. It was in the daylight outside and I didn't ever notice the violet flame. As it was my first time, I was unsure of how far to go.
I'm thinking maybe I need to just do it at night, so the flame color is more noticeable.
Just wondering if anyone else had experience making good brown charcoal, and what indicators you use, or if others had to just wing it like I did. I'm going to cook a new batch up soon, and would like to be more confident of my ability to pull it at that golden brown, but fully cooked point.
All input is appreciated.

I have done brownish
A bloke that used to win most of the firelighting comps at primitive shoots showed me how he made charcloth one time and thats the logic I followed.
He used a smallish tin maybe half pint size, single nailhole in the lid about 2mm (max) - soon as smoke started from the vent hole he sez now dont take yr eyes off that smoke for a second - we watched it build up then the instant the volume of smoke stopped increasing he hooked the tin out - "dont want to cook the guts out of it"
I use large cans if I can -- 1 gallon paint cans, a couple of ten litre ones, got a 20 litre with a clip on lid is favourite, bigger vent holes but same idea as the charcloth - dont light the smoke and soon as it steadies even a little haul it out - some will be black but most of it will be brownish and some not done - my test for done is if I can snap a stick and it breaks clean is good - whats not done enough to grind goes back for a re cook later - I put it through a big old hand meat mincer (outside please - charcoal dust in yr lungs is not good !) then I ball mill it and stash away for later in sealed plastic containers.

This works best in the cold weather - if it gets too hot and the cans dont cool pretty quick the contents will preignite and burn to ash in the can - so I am outside on a cold day and if there is a few inches of damp green grass helps cool it out. Couple inches of snow to drop em in would be good but we dont ever see it here.

[DoubleBuck]

Thanks Joe. I use a one gallon paint can, or a quart paint can. I'll give your method a try on my next batch. I have taken pains to get the wood just right and am hoping I can do the same on the cook. It may be a minute, because we're just about to be in full blown summer and I don't relish standing over a fire for an hour. But, I'll post results. Thank you again.

[DoubleBuck]

ChrisPer;
It sounds to me like you're on to a good method. 17% fines is great, in my book!

[HamGunner]

I char my wood in couple of 20 lb. Lee casting furnaces. I place a 1 lb. coffee can in each with a slightly smaller can inside them. The inner cans sit on a few small volcanic rocks to keep them at least 1/2" above the bottom of the coffee can. I have holes in the lids of the coffee cans just large enough for my casting temp gauges to fit through to reach down into the inner can, upon which I do not use a lid. Just the coffee can lid is in place.

As soon as the smoke slows down I quickly check the wood and if it is done, I dump it into a small seal able metal container so that it does not ignite. I normally end up with mostly dark brown charcoal. Oh, and the smoke never gets hot enough to stay ignited. It will burn as long as a match is held in place, but the smoke quickly stops burning without help from an outside flame.

I have a decent amount of control on the casting furnace temperature so my temperature gauges never go past 600 degrees. It is a bit time consuming, but while I am watching the two furnaces, I am peeling and cutting up more wood for later. And of course, sipping on a cold beverage or if it is cold out, a hot mug of coffee.

[ChrisPer]

important question
whats your broken bulk density before rounding and graphite? .....compared to commercial finished powder would be great ?
You are doin scientific ..... I am doin seat of pants ....would be fun / interesting to see how far out my guesswork is . thanks

In my adjustable measure set to 100gn, I have been getting 88 grains trickled in loose and 102gn after taptaptap until it stops settling.
4hrs rounding did not change it.
Graphite did not change it.
Mixing in some of the next size down did not change it.

Unfortunately I have not kept samples of commercial powder to test the same way but an earlier note in my records says 'WANO FFFg 100.5gn, 101.5gn' I presume that is tapped to settle.

I want mine to flow like commercial powder, my objective was to make it hot as Swiss and as dense so that it could be used for cartridge.

I would have liked to make it so others in my club could use it. Unfortunately there is just too much labor involved - it takes about 10 hours labor to make a Kg of powder that I could sell for $150 (going rate for commercial if it were obtainable). I use about 2Kg in the state championships! My hourly rate should be about $150 in my day job - to my boss anyway. Much smarter to buy, if I could.

My powder does everything I need, so I make only for myself unless a friend asks.

[ChrisPer]

ChrisPer;
It sounds to me like you're on to a good method. 17% fines is great, in my book!

Indeed! I recall crushing quartz in a quarry, we allowed 50%.

[ChrisPer]

Hamgunner, the casting furnaces are a great plan for control.
I am thinking I ought to build a furnace rig next, with almar's ideas for PID and everything, to cook charcoal, melt lead, and maybe burn out wax models for casting. Probably a bit ambitious to try and melt bronze though...

[DoubleBuck]

HamGunner; ChrisPer;
Thanks guys! I agree about the casting furnaces. That has sounded good since I first saw you post on it. ChrisPer, that density is sounding spot on, to me! I hear you on the time/price deal. But, as I've said before, I have time and no money. So, just making it suits me. The kiln approach sounds very good, as well.
Ham, you're gonna have to get you something big like a washing machine tub or something, for a mill! Or a going out of business commercial one. haha Use that until we can design and patent the My Homemade Black Powder Boys' Set It And Forget It Home Made Powder Machine! Just dial in the density, grain size and add your raw wood. Guaranteed to make up to 5 pounds of commercial quality homemade black powder every three hours!!!!
*This machine designed for outdoor use only. The My Homemade Black Powder Boys assume no liability, expressed nor implied, for lost, destroyed or blown up property from misuse. User assumes all responsibility and liability. hahaha
Carry on guys and thanks again.

[indian joe]

In my adjustable measure set to 100gn, I have been getting 88 grains trickled in loose and 102gn after taptaptap until it stops settling.
4hrs rounding did not change it.
Graphite did not change it.
Mixing in some of the next size down did not change it.

Unfortunately I have not kept samples of commercial powder to test the same way but an earlier note in my records says 'WANO FFFg 100.5gn, 101.5gn' I presume that is tapped to settle.

I want mine to flow like commercial powder, my objective was to make it hot as Swiss and as dense so that it could be used for cartridge.

I would have liked to make it so others in my club could use it. Unfortunately there is just too much labor involved - it takes about 10 hours labor to make a Kg of powder that I could sell for $150 (going rate for commercial if it were obtainable). I use about 2Kg in the state championships! My hourly rate should be about $150 in my day job - to my boss anyway. Much smarter to buy, if I could.

My powder does everything I need, so I make only for myself unless a friend asks.

thanks!
I am getting about 92 per 100 with my thoroughly screened FF (16 to 22mesh) - have not used graphite at all - UG is a bit more picky with measuring and tap tap tapping but am used to that - we shot UG Goex 5FA for years

FFFg gets a little lower number 88% to 90%

velocity I am happy, get a tad over 1300fps in my 44/40 If I squish 40 grains in under a 200grainer
45/75 with a 330grains has done just 1500FPS with Fg (12 to 16mesh)

getting low ES numbers when I want to load carefully - cleaner in the barrel than most commercial stuff I have shot

wood is deadfall hybrid willow up to 2 1/2 " diameter (split to 3/4" for cooking) - could be three to five years down but sound wood

have not done a time and motion study on this
like most hobbys you would go broke doin it for a living I spose

[HamGunner]

Last year, I bought an App for my phone that is supposed to identify plants and trees, etc. It is called "Picture This". All you have to do is take a picture of bark, leaves, or blossoms, etc. and it Id's your plant. From the tests that I have done with it on plants that I already knew the identity, it is very accurate. Unless one has taken a blurry or messed up picture, it readily Id's things just fine.

Well, yesterday I went down along the creek where I had been getting my "Black Willow", which the App had identified from the trees bark mostly as it was late fall and very little leaf left on the tree. Now with fresh leaves and the buds and such on the tree, my App says that it is "RED WILLOW" or (Salix Laevigata). So I have been making Red Willow BP I guess. Not all that bad actually, and just a bit faster burning than Sassafras.

I picked out some dried dead hanging branches off of some other Willow that was along the creek yesterday that I always hear was called "Creek Willow" and it Id's as "COASTAL PLAIN WILLOW" (Salix Caroliniana). I scraped the bark off down to the white wood and will eventually char some of it to try. It seems to be a lot more brittle as well as lighter weight than the Red Willow so maybe it will be faster burning.

In the meantime, I will take a fishing trip down the road about 30-40 miles to a good sized creek (small river) that has a lot of large Willow Trees all along it's banks. I have fished along those banks all my life and just assumed that they were Black Willow, but now I will find out. If so, I can cut a truck load of hanging dead branches.

Although I am happy enough with my BP so far, I might eventually get the velocity up a bit more with better wood. Worth the time and trouble I guess. It is mostly a hobby for me after all.

I finally got the chemicals needed to make up some NON-CORROSIVE priming compound. Just waiting on some beakers and a used magnetic stirring hot plate. Been a long time since I took Chemistry in college, but perhaps I can pull this off. It is actually a simple procedure. Have to combine Lead Nitrate solution with Sodium Hypophosphite solution to make Lead Hypophosphite. Then combine Lead Nitrate with the Lead Hypophosphite for the priming compound. Safe, simple chemistry, so I should be able to pull that off. What a hobby.

[Vettepilot]

Hmmm... funny you should mention that just now. Just last night I was watching some of the Aardvark reloading videos on primer reloading again. I keep thinking I want to try this, but having limited time/energy and too many projects going stops me each time I consider it. I have been saving up old primers though. It would be great to make up primers for plinking at least, and save my precious stash of commercial primers. Dam the "powers that be" for this "shortage". Everyone learned the lesson quite well about how lucrative contrived shortages can be from the Arabs and the great gas rip-off back in the early '70's. Didn't they??

Keep us posted.

Vettepilot

[csitas]

Linstrum, I want to thank you for the come back ,and all the xplanation. That was cool of you to explain so a dummy could understand it. thats again. chuc

[ChrisPer]

Finally completed polishing and graphite of my new batch.
The grains are very clean, and the powder flows beautifully.

Interestingly, it appears the bulk density is slightly lower at

2F 87.5gn loose and 100gn settled.
3F 86gn loose and 98gn settled.
(Afterthought: 1% lower bulk density than I expected might be because of 1% lower moisture content. I dried this lot of 3.6% moisture after adding 6% to make pucks. I think I only dried by a couple of percent previously.)

But I am REALLY pleased with my sieving discovery.

I have learned something about using the sieves which may be useful to others.

Like others, I regrind all coarse reject caught on the 15# sieve, a kitchen sieve. I made sure to sieve every pass so nothing got re-ground if it was already below 15#.

I make sure I only sieve a small amount at a time so it works faster.

For the 15 mesh, I would maximise product passing it. Using empty catcher and re-emptying twice during each little sieve batch, I found that in the first ten seconds almost all the easy fines pass through the sieve. The next 15-20 seconds, the grains that pass are full sized at the upper end of the sieve mesh size. Then the following 15-20 or more seconds, about 1/10 the amount of full sized grains continue as per previous interval, biased even coarser.

So to get maximum 2F I sieve the 15 mesh long, long time and get all the coarse, weighty grains in the extended time.
Then I sieve the 20 mesh for a shorter time, and keep more of the marginal grains for the 2F.
Finally, the 40# retains the 3F. I try to get all the finer material through to make less dusty grains.

[almar]

Last year, I bought an App for my phone that is supposed to identify plants and trees, etc. It is called "Picture This". All you have to do is take a picture of bark, leaves, or blossoms, etc. and it Id's your plant. From the tests that I have done with it on plants that I already knew the identity, it is very accurate. Unless one has taken a blurry or messed up picture, it readily Id's things just fine.

Well, yesterday I went down along the creek where I had been getting my "Black Willow", which the App had identified from the trees bark mostly as it was late fall and very little leaf left on the tree. Now with fresh leaves and the buds and such on the tree, my App says that it is "RED WILLOW" or (Salix Laevigata). So I have been making Red Willow BP I guess. Not all that bad actually, and just a bit faster burning than Sassafras.

I picked out some dried dead hanging branches off of some other Willow that was along the creek yesterday that I always hear was called "Creek Willow" and it Id's as "COASTAL PLAIN WILLOW" (Salix Caroliniana). I scraped the bark off down to the white wood and will eventually char some of it to try. It seems to be a lot more brittle as well as lighter weight than the Red Willow so maybe it will be faster burning.

In the meantime, I will take a fishing trip down the road about 30-40 miles to a good sized creek (small river) that has a lot of large Willow Trees all along it's banks. I have fished along those banks all my life and just assumed that they were Black Willow, but now I will find out. If so, I can cut a truck load of hanging dead branches.

Although I am happy enough with my BP so far, I might eventually get the velocity up a bit more with better wood. Worth the time and trouble I guess. It is mostly a hobby for me after all.

I finally got the chemicals needed to make up some NON-CORROSIVE priming compound. Just waiting on some beakers and a used magnetic stirring hot plate. Been a long time since I took Chemistry in college, but perhaps I can pull this off. It is actually a simple procedure. Have to combine Lead Nitrate solution with Sodium Hypophosphite solution to make Lead Hypophosphite. Then combine Lead Nitrate with the Lead Hypophosphite for the priming compound. Safe, simple chemistry, so I should be able to pull that off. What a hobby.

I am full into this right now. Making EPM8. Still waiting on the calcium silicide but everything else is done and tested. Did you get the primer resizer from NOE?

[HamGunner]

I am full into this right now. Making EPM8. Still waiting on the calcium silicide but everything else is done and tested. Did you get the primer resizer from NOE?

No, I have not gotten a primer resizer, but did try several of my corrosive primers and they seated just fine in .45 acp brass. I might have some problems I suppose later on, but for now I will try to use them as they are. I have a punch that is the proper size for removing the dent, but so far, I have not had problems with the primers being oversized. I do have a whole lot of spent primers and so I can pick and choose the ones that are not distorted from high pressure.

It is a bit of trouble to mic each individual primer cup, but that is how I have been doing it. Certainly not going to be a major production, but rather just something fun to do.

[Vettepilot]

I am full into this right now. Making EPM8. Still waiting on the calcium silicide but everything else is done and tested. Did you get the primer resizer from NOE?

Interesting. I didn't even know those resizers existed.

Vettepilot

[almar]

Interesting. I didn't even know those resizers existed.

Vettepilot

They do. You asked me some time ago about this stuff and i was no longer interested in reloading primers because y focus was on other things but these last months the primer well is dryer then ever. So i have got into into it alot. If you have any questions about it let me know.

[ChrisPer]

I am hearing tales of people buying bulk 12G and taking the powder for target pistol loads. Doesn't help the primer shortage though.

[indian joe]

I am hearing tales of people buying bulk 12G and taking the powder for target pistol loads. Doesn't help the primer shortage though.

sounds pretty stupid but I just did the math on the lead and powder value ---not so stupid at all ?

[Vettepilot]

sounds pretty stupid but I just did the math on the lead and powder value ---not so stupid at all ?

Incredible!! What a screwed up world! But where are they even finding the 12 gauge?

I ran across a guy selling recycled lead shot and bought a couple hundred pounds, figuring to melt it for boolits. Cost me less than a buck a pound. I wish I had caught this guy after he washed the shot but before he re-graphited it. I don't know how that's gonna work out yet...

Vettepilot