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Thread: My homemade black powder

  1. #5901
    Boolit Master
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    You guys that make your own caps from 22 reloader kit, what or how do you measure the compound that you place into the cap. I’m doing it with the small end and trying to get that thing 1/3 full is very tedious. Just wondering if there is a better way?

    I use a very small funnel that I got from Drs. Office that they look into your ears with. Then add 1 drop of acetone mixed with either clear fingernail polish or Duco cement about 10 drops per oz. With eye dropper. Then small match stick to spread around in bottom.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  2. #5902
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    I made a scoop out of a small pistol primer cup , soldered to a brass rod for a handle.
    I use one level scoop of powder to a primer cup.
    Now if you want to kick up your primers a bit .
    You can use a rounded scoop of powder.

  3. #5903
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    Thanks Lags I’ll try that. Have plenty of spent primers, never throw nothing away.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government..... When the people fear their government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

  4. #5904
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    I found that measuring the individual priming compound ingredients by weight rather than by volume makes a much better compound. I did alter the Prime All formula just a bit by adding about 1% air float aluminum powder and 1% BP dust and the percussion caps seem to have a good bit more flame. Likely due to the aluminum powder.

    I too use a very small funnel to drop the measured amount of the compound into the empty percussion cups. I used a 4" length of 12 gauge copper wire and soldered empty center fire primer cups on each end. I have a small empty primer cup on one end and a large empty primer cup on the other end. I have not had any problems with having my percussion caps blown out enough to cause hang up problems in my revolver, by using the large primer cup level full with the compound so will likely continue with that amount. I get 100% ignition. I should have tried a small batch by just using a small primer cup level full of compound and see if it works just as well, but just have not done the test. Likely the smaller amount is plenty with my process of also using a paper disc of toy cap gun cap.

    I use the flat end of a small chainsaw file to compress the DRY compound in the filled percussion cup. Then I add a drop of 4 parts alcohol to one part hobby shellac and let it almost dry. Just before it is completely dry I use the same chainsaw file and press one disk of toy cap gun cap that I had previously punched out with a paper puncher. I do not stir or compress the wet compound mixture except for placing the paper cap on the almost dry compound. And again, I get 100% ignition where as I did not when I was messing with the wet compound. Might work either way, but the way I fill and compress the percussion cups works best for me.

    Oh, and I compared my percussion caps to CCI #10 caps. I used my chronograph and firing a cylinder full of each, I did not find that there was a detectable variation between the two percussion caps.

    I found better success of no hang ups of the cylinder of my revolver by using two layers of soda can instead of one layer to make the empty percussion cups and I think I even bettered that by using some .008 dia. flashing metal. Either seemed to fit the nipple tighter than just one layer of soda can, but the single layer of flashing metal has worked just perfect for me and is less trouble than the two thinner layers of soda can.

    I sort of followed up on a suggestion from another member about how to control your empty percussion cups while you are filling them. They used paint mixing sticks and drilled a series of staggered holes, up and down the length of the wooden paint sticks, just large enough holes to sufficiently contain the little percussion cups. After the cup is filled and has dried, I just turn them over and punch them out into a container.
    Last edited by HamGunner; 04-27-2022 at 01:06 AM.
    73 de n0ubx, Rick
    NRA Benefactor Life Member/VFW Life Member

  5. #5905
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=jmh54738;5393675]
    Quote Originally Posted by Linstrum View Post
    Hi jmh54738. Thanks for your response.

    Taking an educated guess about your mystery plant, from your description it might be one of the eastern elderberry species. Elderberry is described as having light pithy wood. But whatever it is, at 1.8% ash, it sounds like it is another good one to keep working with.

    You guessed correctly Linstrum, while my local university extension horticulturalist could not identify the plant, which is Red Berried Elder. My charcoal wood selection keeps getting better, from White Pine, to Cedar, to Quaking Aspen. About the Aspen; I have run the ash assay three times, averaging 6.0. Shooting about 40 shots yesterday with the Aspen powder, (36 cal RB, 35 grains powder), resulted in soft fouling which required just a dry patch after every 2 or three shots. I am satisfied that it is good strong BP. I was concerned with the amount of ash, but less concerned when I consider that around 55% of the powder charge is a residual solid. On the other hand, a high ash content would make the recipe carbon deficient. Thus, I am excited to experiment with the very low ash (1.8%) Red Elderberry charcoal. As stated before the elder wood is very light weight and its ash more white and fluffy when compared to the Aspen. The Red Elderberry is very common, especially around the edge of my woodland. I am now processing a batch of Elderberry BP, and will report the chronograph and fouling results soon.
    jmh54738
    Hi jmh54738 Alright! About 20 miles from where I'm located there is aspen, so I'm interested in what you come up with. I also need to check it out up there in the forest for elderberry. Where my place is, I can't make charcoal (neighbor problem, those guys barbecue over an open fire on the ground and burn trash in a barrel, but they call the fire department on me if I light a handful of charcoal briquettes in a hibachi), but I've got two buddies who can help out over at there places.

    If you are worried about having deficient carbon with 6% ash, there is a quick and mathematically-precise fix to get the correct amount of charcoal in your black powder, which I use.

    The math isn't some kind of horrific bunch of complex calculations, but it may not be all that obvious without pondering it for a few minutes. So, 6% ash means you have 94% fuel. Convert 94% to decimal form of 0.94, from there, find the mathematical reciprocal of 0.94 by dividing 1 by 0.94, which is pretty close to 1.0638 – don't worry about rounding-off yet. If you are using the traditional 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal, and 10 parts sulfur, adjust your mix by multiplying the 15 parts charcoal by 1.0638 to give you 15.957. Going three places to the right side of the decimal point is far beyond what you can accurately weigh on your scale, so just rounding that number off to 16 is plenty good enough. Your new black powder mix using charcoal with 6% ash will now be 75 parts potassium nitrate, 16 parts impure charcoal, and 10 parts sulfur. That will provide enough fuel so the black powder won't burn lean. Please notice I used the word "parts" instead of percentages. Going by percentage so everything adds up to 100% just complicates doing the math beyond all recognition. In this case, adding up to 101 doesn't cause any problems.
    ~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+
    There is no such thing as too many tools, especially when it comes to casting and reloading.
    Howard Hughes said: "He who has the tools rules".

    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, member F.O.B.C. (Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), Shooters.com alumnus, and original alloutdoors.com survivor.

  6. #5906
    Boolit Master
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    "......In this case, adding up to 101 doesn't cause any problems."

    Oh, god help us! That's likely to cause our universe to implode!!

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  7. #5907
    Boolit Master Linstrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettepilot View Post
    "......In this case, adding up to 101 doesn't cause any problems."

    Oh, god help us! That's likely to cause our universe to implode!!

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    Vettepilot, you got that right! If I had expressed the ratios in percentage form, all of my chemistry professors would have rolled over in their graves, the ghost of the late astrophysicist Stephan Hawking Ph.D. would be anticipating the undoing of the Big Bang, and the Higgs boson particles would soon cease to exist, all for not subscribing to the K.I.S.S. Principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid!

    But for purists, here it is in % out to 14 places to the right of the decimal point:
    74.25742574257426% potassium nitrate, 15.84158415841584% dirty charcoal, 9.9009900990099% sulfur
    ~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+~+:/&\:+
    There is no such thing as too many tools, especially when it comes to casting and reloading.
    Howard Hughes said: "He who has the tools rules".

    Safe casting and shooting!

    Linstrum, member F.O.B.C. (Fraternal Order of Boolit Casters), Shooters.com alumnus, and original alloutdoors.com survivor.

  8. #5908
    Boolit Master
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    WE can have 101 because too much is only enough!

    It was a perfect day, and I shot some of Almar's Brown Black Willow charcoal yesterday, in my .58 and my buddy's .50 Thompson I worked on.
    The 75-15-10 <12 >20 mix was a huge disappointment, because it had drawn moisture in the 5CC plastic vials I put it in a month ago, or it was not completely dry when I made it. When I unpacked it, from a plastic bag, packed in a cottage cheese container, I could see moisture vapor on the top sides of the vials. I shot two and they barely broke 1000 FPS, so I knew the moisture was the problem. I'll dry it AGAIN, and see how it does.
    The strange thing; I had the exact same vials loaded with <24 >50 of the same batch, from the same day, that were dusty dry. I checked the remaining batches, and they were all dry. So, who knows. I won't be loading them and then waiting a month to shoot them, again.
    The rifles loved the 24/50 standard recipe, with 1.6 density. 60 grains under the .570 PBR averaged 1411 fps, for 5 shots. My fastest single shot, with 60 grains of any powder I've tested to date, has been 1392 fps. The fastest yesterday was 1421, with three shots over 1400.
    60 grains under the .490 PBR averaged 1589 for 5 shots. The powder was exceptionally clean burning, if there is such a reality; and I was grinning, on every shot. I love that little heavy rifle! It was lethal on the 50 yard test target.
    The Remington Golden Lead Round Balls I bought for the .50 turned out to be expensive, but really sweet loading and shooting.
    They have a ballistics Data, on the back of the card, for a 90 grain charge of FFg with a 24 inch barrel, producing a MV of 1750 FPS and 1190 ft. pounds. I'm 160 feet below that speed, with 2/3 of that charge. Granted, I used a 2 inch longer barrel. I'm saying it will do that 1750 FPS with 75 grains or less . This is good powder. I can't wait to test out the rest of it.

  9. #5909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linstrum View Post
    Vettepilot, you got that right! If I had expressed the ratios in percentage form, all of my chemistry professors would have rolled over in their graves, the ghost of the late astrophysicist Stephan Hawking Ph.D. would be anticipating the undoing of the Big Bang, and the Higgs boson particles would soon cease to exist, all for not subscribing to the K.I.S.S. Principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid!

    But for purists, here it is in % out to 14 places to the right of the decimal point:
    74.25742574257426% potassium nitrate, 15.84158415841584% dirty charcoal, 9.9009900990099% sulfur
    That's better! "The Force" has calmed now, and the ghosts of Hawking and Einstein have gone back to playing 3 level chess.


    Nice DoubleBuck!! And you reminded me of one of my favorite sayings: "If some is good, then more is better, and TOO MUCH is just right! The motto of everyone under 20 years old, and anyone who has ever said "Here, hold my beer and watch this!" (Including me!)

    Vettepilot
    Last edited by Vettepilot; 04-28-2022 at 02:50 PM.
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  10. #5910
    Boolit Master super6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linstrum View Post
    Vettepilot, you got that right! If I had expressed the ratios in percentage form, all of my chemistry professors would have rolled over in their graves, the ghost of the late astrophysicist Stephan Hawking Ph.D. would be anticipating the undoing of the Big Bang, and the Higgs boson particles would soon cease to exist, all for not subscribing to the K.I.S.S. Principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid!

    But for purists, here it is in % out to 14 places to the right of the decimal point:
    74.25742574257426% potassium nitrate, 15.84158415841584% dirty charcoal, 9.9009900990099% sulfur
    Rounding this up and down It is still 100% No way around that, No way to have 101% of any thing.
    Give me something to believe in. Poison
    Arosmith What it takes
    A 12 step program

  11. #5911
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by super6 View Post
    Rounding this up and down It is still 100% No way around that, No way to have 101% of any thing.
    BUT....? Then why do ex-wives want 101% of EVERY THING??

    ;~)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  12. #5912
    Boolit Master Doughty's Avatar
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    When buying things, I always say, "If one is good, two is better, so get three."
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  13. #5913
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    I know what you mean! I just threw away 2 that got too old to work.

  14. #5914
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    I broke the handle on my cheaply made ceramic coffee mill. Now I have to invest in fixing it - or just make the malting mill work instead. Making bad tools is clearly where the work has gone, making powder is becoming easier apart from that.

    Edit to add: I was trying to figure how to gear the malting mill. IT DOESNT NEED GEARS! If I put a thick rubber strap between the rollers it gets the passive roller working with the drive roller. Hmmm. Old oil filter wrench has a strap like that and it works well! Now for some pucks!
    Last edited by ChrisPer; 04-29-2022 at 10:22 PM.

  15. #5915
    Boolit Master
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    Now there's a good idea. However, the rubber friction roller strap would likely only work for one adjustment setting, whereas gears allow some adjustment, though at the risk of increased gear backlash. (Which shouldn't matter unless it gets real excessive and you put a bunch of force on it...)

    Vettepilot
    "Those who sacrifice freedom for security, have neither."
    Benjamin Franklin. (A very wise man!)

  16. #5916
    Boolit Buddy
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    That seems right, Vettepilot. However the strap I am trying suits the widest setting. If I hunt around I should be able to come up with a thinner one or two. but first: another batch of meal to puck!

  17. #5917
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisPer View Post
    I broke the handle on my cheaply made ceramic coffee mill. Now I have to invest in fixing it - or just make the malting mill work instead. Making bad tools is clearly where the work has gone, making powder is becoming easier apart from that.

    Edit to add: I was trying to figure how to gear the malting mill. IT DOESNT NEED GEARS! If I put a thick rubber strap between the rollers it gets the passive roller working with the drive roller. Hmmm. Old oil filter wrench has a strap like that and it works well! Now for some pucks!
    make a frame to mount your coffee mill on a bench - life will get a lot easier

  18. #5918
    Boolit Man mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisPer View Post
    I was trying to figure how to gear the malting mill. IT DOESNT NEED GEARS! If I put a thick rubber strap between the rollers it gets the passive roller working with the drive roller. Hmmm. Old oil filter wrench has a strap like that and it works well! Now for some pucks!
    I see that several of you have figured out or are trying to figure out how to have both rollers geared together. Do you really think it makes a big difference? I'm using my malting mill without that modification and it seems to work well. I'm wondering what advantage there is to having the rollers geared together. If it cuts down significantly on the amount of fines that need repressed it might be worthwhile. Does anybody have any data comparing the percentage of fines before and after this modification?

    I would like to cut down on my fines percentage. I've never actually measured it though. I've got a batch ready to be pressed today so this time when I grind/screen it I'm going to weigh each granulation and calculate the percentages I'm getting. I think that playing with the spacing of the rollers would probably affect those percentages as well, so maybe I'll mess with that the next couple batches I do.

    I just thought of another question. Is anybody using their malting mill as the only grinding step? I was assuming everyone does like I do and breaks the pucks with the mill so the puck pieces are small enough to run through another grinder before screening, as I didn't think it was possible to set the malting mill to grind small enough to be screen ready in one step. Am I wrong about that?

    Now that I think about it I believe the second grinding with a ceramic burr grinder probably has a bigger effect on fines percentage than the initial mill breaking step. I'll have to investigate changing settings on both of them. One at a time of course in an attempt to get useful data. Maybe I can find the ideal settings for both as the malting mill is pretty much infinitely adjustable and the burr grinder has something like 12 different settings. Looks like I've got some work to do.
    Last edited by mmb617; 05-01-2022 at 08:14 AM.

  19. #5919
    Boolit Bub
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    Ground my first pucks today and not good results I used a ceramic coffee grinder and have to much fine powder any suggestion's if I adjust then to much large pieces

  20. #5920
    Boolit Master
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    Start off grinding your broken up pucks so the pieces on top are about 1/8" diameter.
    Screen out anything that won't go thru like a #10 or 20 screen.
    Now regrind the large chunks that didn't pass thru the screen WITHOUT adjusting the ceramic grinder.
    It will produce more of 2 & 3f and still have large chunks that you can again regrind.
    Then you can adjust your grinder a little bit and run those chunks thru again.
    The trick is,
    Do your grinding several times and screen it often.
    Only put the material into the grinder that is larger than the powder you want.
    And grind the powder at least Twice before you re adjust the grinder.
    A ceramic grinder will not be able to be adjusted to grind a Specific Size powder.
    Take your time and you will end up with more powder that the size you want

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check