My homemade black powder

[dtknowles]

dtknowles;
I don't know what size vice you are using. I saw you said you are using a 1 inch die.
I pulled up some old information on vices. A 1" 8 thread bolt, which is what some American made 8" vices use, calls for 300 pounds of torque, and supplies 10,200 pounds of clamping force. That converts to over 12,900 pounds of compression on a 1" die. If the target compression for 1.7 gram per CC density is 3,500 pounds, and you are using an 8" vice, the math says you can do it. Times nearly three. A 6 inch vice with a 3/4 10 thread screw calls for 138 pounds of torque and will supply 5500 pounds of clamping force. On your 1" die, it says you can get 7,004 pounds per square inch. Which will still get your 3,500 pound target (if that is what it actually takes).
I don't know if it will or will not make viable pucks, but the math says it will.
By the way; that 8" USA made Wilton vice that I paid a hundred bucks for 50 years ago, is nearly $800, today. But, whatever it would do the day I bought it, it will still do today. That's the difference in the Chinese BS they sell today as a 'quality' vice.
Balsa Charcoal is the berries. It is my fastest linear burn rate powder. It burned a four foot 1/8 inch line in my tester, in less than one half second. The Chronograph said it was not my best, but I made it four or five years ago, before I knew that I probably over cooked every batch of charcoal I made until learned different. I have a 12" X 6" X 6" piece I have been saving until I know I can cook it correctly and I plan to cook it up.
If you have Balsa at your disposal, look no further.

Thanks for doing that math. My pucks are brick hard, I am sure I am getting enough compression. Yeah, I got to figure out how to not overcook my balsa. It is a bunch of tiny thin die cut model airplane kit scrap. I have a 18" x 24" x 12" box full. I built, flew and crashed a lot of model airplanes once upon a time.

Tim

[LAGS]

What you might do since your Balsa is thinner.
Put the wood in a Quart paint can with a hole in the lid.
Then put that can in a gallon paint can spaced up from the bottom a little bit.
Put the gallon lid back on with a hole in the lid.
You can use a thermometer to watch the heat.
I use my thermometer that I use for my Boolit casting with the shaft stuck in the hole in the lid.
But just set it on a gas stove or what I do , I use the side burner on my barbeque.
Cook it for a half hour and check it.
Then adjust things if needed or keep cooking as you were.
My dad built Radio Controlled plane Kits that he sold many kits.
That is why I am familiar with Balsa since I grew up with it in the shop all the time back in the 1960's

[Pioneer]

What you might do since your Balsa is thinner.
Put the wood in a Quart paint can with a hole in the lid.
Then put that can in a gallon paint can spaced up from the bottom a little bit.
Put the gallon lid back on with a hole in the lid.
You can use a thermometer to watch the heat.
I use my thermometer that I use for my Boolit casting with the shaft stuck in the hole in the lid.
But just set it on a gas stove or what I do , I use the side burner on my barbeque.
Cook it for a half hour and check it.
Then adjust things if needed or keep cooking as you were.
My dad built Radio Controlled plane Kits that he sold many kits.
That is why I am familiar with Balsa since I grew up with it in the shop all the time back in the 1960's

What's the optimum temperature to avoid over cooking? Tks

[LAGS]

I usually try to keep the temp.
Between 500 and 600°
Sometimes you need to go a little higher in the can.
But just watch the smoke and peek at the charcoal every once in a while.
After you do a couple batches , you will make the adjustments you need for your set up and type of wood.

[dtknowles]

I was going to do mine on the stove in an old pressure cooker. I can put my thermometer thru the hole in the top. I might put a tee in the top so I can check temp and vent exhaust. I think I should put something in the bottom so the wood does not set on the bottom and get too hot there.

Tim

[LAGS]

I have not tried a pressure cooker pot.
But It sounds workable.

[DoubleBuck]

I put a quart can in a gallon can, like LAGS described. I have some broken pieces of fire brick, and put a piece in the bottom of the gallon can, to hold the quart can off the bottom. I used to cook a gallon can full, but it would make about 6 pounds worth of finished powder, so I started using the quart can, instead. The last batch of Sassafras I cooked made enough charcoal for 1-1/2 pounds of finished.
Tim, with those little thin pieces of Balsa, it will cook really fast. You'll have to stay on top of it, especially once it starts to smoke , as my last (and only) batch was done within about 15 minutes of beginning to smoke. I agree with the 500-600° temps, and with the Balsa, I think I would stay on the low side of that range. Once it's smoking, the temps will want to climb quickly. Don't let it.

[dtknowles]

yeah. I am going to the go slow.

[BadgerShooter]

So after reading many many pages of this thread.....

Can I make a screened powder that will give me similar performance to Swiss? I understand volumes might be different. I shoot 34 and 36 cal muzzleloaders in matches and I haven't found any commercial powder that can outperform Swiss in accuracy or amount of fouling, which is a consideration in these smaller bore guns.

Can I make a powder comparable to Swiss using the puck method?

I have a good background in chemical processes and manufacturing and am fairly capable, but if I can't get Swiss accuracy, I am not too interested in going up the learning curve.
If I can meet that accuracy and performance, I'm interested.

Continuing the theme of DTKnowles quotes at the bottom of his posts, I will submit my favorite - a Japanese quote - Pen and Sword in Accord.

[Brimstone]

So after reading many many pages of this thread.....

Can I make a screened powder that will give me similar performance to Swiss? I understand volumes might be different. I shoot 34 and 36 cal muzzleloaders in matches and I haven't found any commercial powder that can outperform Swiss in accuracy or amount of fouling, which is a consideration in these smaller bore guns.

Can I make a powder comparable to Swiss using the puck method?

I have a good background in chemical processes and manufacturing and am fairly capable, but if I can't get Swiss accuracy, I am not too interested in going up the learning curve.
If I can meet that accuracy and performance, I'm interested.

Continuing the theme of DTKnowles quotes at the bottom of his posts, I will submit my favorite - a Japanese quote - Pen and Sword in Accord.

The question regarding Swiss. Yes. I do. You need to mill fine enough, then use the press to gain density and grain hardness for proper glazing.

As to accuracy, that will come down to your attention to glazing, dusting and sieving operation.

Excluding charcoal making, you're looking at an entirely mechanical set of actions and your attention to detail will decide if you succeed or fail at exceeding Swiss.

Go look for The Mad Monk's Swiss booklet. Bill went into detail analyzing Swiss and how they achieve the results they have.

[DoubleBuck]

BadgerShooter;
By weight, you will be able to match Swiss with screened, but maybe not your first try. And, never by volume. There are a thousand variables, and you have to get a grip on most of the important ones.
You can match Swiss corning powder, but maybe not your first try. If you can make, buy or trade for premium charcoal, have an adequate mill, press, die, grinding, grading, drying, and storage system, with premium chemicals. With the will not to give up, if it takes you several tries to achieve Swiss performance, it can certainly be done. To surpass Swiss performance, in power, cleanliness and accuracy; you will have to have an 'A' game and use it.
If you choose the challenge, good luck to you and you've came to a good place to get ideas and advice.

[DoubleBuck]

Brimstone;
Can you post a link or more info on that booklet? I searched 'Mad Monk Swiss Powder', but got a lot of stuff on vodka and Rasputin.

[Linstrum]

DoubleBuck, pardon me for jumping in ahead of Brimstone on a response to your question about Mad Monk's booklet. Brimstone may still have a better answer than what I found, though, I didn't find anything specific about the booklet.

About Mad Monk, I did a quick search on the duckduckgo.com search engine. Try this, it looks promising. It says it has the complete Mad Monk files. If it does, it may be a good idea to download them for future use, who knows how long they may be around:

https://www.ilovemuzzleloading.com/b...mad-monk-files

It looks like Mad Monk's files may cover from 2001 to 2019, so it might take a lot of reading - - - just like this one.

[DoubleBuck]

Linstrum, thanks very much. I already started reading.

[Linstrum]

DoubleBuck, I didn't get my edit in time and my browser didn't update, my apologies for jumping ahead of Brimstone for a reply to your question.

It looks like a real "gold mine" of information! Okay, let's set a time in about a week when we can all meet back here again? Just kidding, but we might be reading for awhile - - -

[BadgerShooter]

I appreciate your input. I have a lot of irons in the fire right now but this looks interesting and would be a useful skill. If I can make a powder that will shoot well enough to let me win matches, I'm interested.

[Vettepilot]

We've all come a really long way here, haven't we? This is the most productive, interesting forum thread I've ever seen.

Great job everyone!

Vettepilot

[BadgerShooter]

Found the Swiss Booklet - very informative

[indian joe]

So after reading many many pages of this thread.....

Can I make a screened powder that will give me similar performance to Swiss? I understand volumes might be different. I shoot 34 and 36 cal muzzleloaders in matches and I haven't found any commercial powder that can outperform Swiss in accuracy or amount of fouling, which is a consideration in these smaller bore guns.

The accuracy question is easy - use quality ingredients, be consistent in your work. BLENDING is something no one talks about - best tactic to get away from batch to batch variation (which I believe is inevitable and unavoidable) The fouling issue is about your choice of wood for charcoal and how well you do that process.

Can I make a powder comparable to Swiss using the puck method?

So Swiss is the hottest powder out there - does that make it the best ? not if it burns dirty and needs extra in the fouling control department - I dont know - have never shot it.
heres the big three - clean burning - consistent accuracy - decent velocity
up to the individual what order they are placed in - you are lookin at my order right there
I have a good background in chemical processes and manufacturing and am fairly capable, but if I can't get Swiss accuracy, I am not too interested in going up the learning curve.
honestly (this comment based on chrono testing) a muzzleloader shooter with a range loading technique good enough to separate swiss on the basis of accuracy - is a very rare bird - show me single digit extreme spread test numbers with a muzzleloader shot on the range and I will amend that statement accordingly - I think powder accuracy and fouling control get scrambled up here .

If I can meet that accuracy and performance, I'm interested.
you can be interested or not - your choice - but if you cant do it that also is your choice - not our job to convince you - your comments have a strong "I dont believe you" vibe - again your choice...........................................

Continuing the theme of DTKnowles quotes at the bottom of his posts, I will submit my favorite - a Japanese quote - Pen and Sword in Accord.

......

[Brimstone]

I apologize for failing to link the source for the information. More than a few places that hosted his files are now down. I assumed it would be as easy as Google and ding there you go. Sorry

A handful of people here have posted links back years ago, 2010, 2015 and such. Those links are dead too. I guess the internet isn't quite forever huh? Unless yur naked.

Thank you Linstrum for the link. I'm glad Ethan is refusing to let this information die.

My cousin and I had quite a few back and forth emails with Mr Knight, there is a LOT more he knew that aren't in his files. A library of knowledge that as far as I know is now gone with him. There are little pieces of information scattered all over the internet, but nothing centralized.

https://archive.org/details/mad_monk...e/CTG/mode/2up