My homemade black powder

[maillemaker]

But I can't be the only one who is content making powder that shoots well in my guns even if it is slightly less than perfect. Seat of the pants I can't tell the difference between my powder and the Goex or Schuetzen powders I've used. The chronograph tells me my stuff is slightly less powerful, somewhere around 10% slower muzzle velocity. I can live with that. I don't see any difference in the reliability of ignition. I figure it costs me about $4 a lb and I can make all I want.

Yes, there are some folks now in this thread who are looking to perfect their powder making.

But you are absolutely right - you can make very decent powder without a lot of fuss.

I made my first BP using scrap bits of poplar wood left over from a project. The wood I bought from Home Depot. I made a retort out of a 1 gallon paint can, and I'm sure I vastly over-cooked the wood. Even so, my BP shot only 100 FPS below Goex, though it was considerably dirtier.

My next batch was made with some willow charcoal someone on here sent me. It shot the same FPS as Goex, and was just a bit dirtier. But, it was dirty enough that it fouled out the fire channel in my Sharps. But in a muzzle loader, it works just fine.

I did some shooting last weekend with both a caplock H&P .69 smoothbore and a Brown Bess flintlock using my homemade 2F powder. Worked just fine.

Since I can't use historical paper cartridges like this in N-SSA competition, I've decided to step up my home made production solely for when I shoot these historical cartridges. No need to waste my commercial powder when shooting these cartridges for fun. This will let me also make up a bunch of cartridges for these guns, without feeling bad about having consumed my commercial powder just to sit in an ammo box with made-up ammo. I can now make up a surplus of cartridges, so that any time I want to go shooting I can just grab a handful of rounds and go.

[indian joe]

Well barring actually doing the test yourself, I guess that the next best thing is to search the internet for reports of other people doing test in their firearms.

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/t...enfield.65679/

If you go to post 6. He gets 1288 with 80gr of goex so...there may be barrel lenght differences, not sure, but +20gr is alot...

Now to know if its badly milled, burn some if you see specs of white then it needs to go back. But a clean burn is not always a sign that its the best it can be either.

another question whats the error margin on a hundred dollar chronograph? - not within the instrument so much as between them - so if I measure 1500fps here with an RCBS what would the number be at your place with an acme? brand (yeah I'm 73 still get a laugh when that coyote messes up) - we set em up different, different weather, different elevation. It took me a few tries to figure out how to set mine up to get decent readings.

[DoubleBuck]

So now my chronograph is no good?
First my mill is no good, yet for twenty years, people have been making good powder with them. And now my chronograph is no good, because it was not expensive enough.
There is something to be noted about the Coyote, and the Acme tools he used. The tools worked perfect, every single time. The Coyote misused them. Every. Single. Time.

[almar]

So now my chronograph is no good?
First my mill is no good, yet for twenty years, people have been making good powder with them. And now my chronograph is no good, because it was not expensive enough.

Oh no DB, I didnt mean to offend, I never was very keen on these things probably why it took me so long to find someone to marry me. Im just trying to help out here.

[almar]

another question whats the error margin on a hundred dollar chronograph? - not within the instrument so much as between them - so if I measure 1500fps here with an RCBS what would the number be at your place with an acme? brand (yeah I'm 73 still get a laugh when that coyote messes up) - we set em up different, different weather, different elevation. It took me a few tries to figure out how to set mine up to get decent readings.

Somebody asked me if my chronometer was off on another forum. So i tried loading known data with a 5 inch 1911 45 acp using 5 grains of W231 and a 230 grain bullet. I was under by 10 fps. 10 fps isn't too bad i reckon...those chronies might be off some but nothing too far. The added $ between them is likely feature related not accuracy. That lab radar thing for example...

[DoubleBuck]

AlMar;
No offence taken, at all. Different people have different views.
Here are new pictures of flat dull side tin foil, with a flat piece of typing paper, each with a half gram of powder. Do these look better?

[almar]

Here are new pictures of flat dull side tin foil, with a flat piece of typing paper, each with a half gram of powder. Do these look better?

its looks better that what you had bud, there seems to be alot of carbon but the truth is in the shootin'...load er up.

hey what do you use for potassium and sulfur?

[DoubleBuck]

AlMar;
That is why I made the tinfoil 'box'. These two pictures are the same fines I pictured last night. I didn't touch them, except to weigh it. The powder in the 'box' was spread out more, because it was hard to load it in the box. These two were in nice little piles.
My Sulfur came from Norfolk, Nebraska. Custom Feed Services. Guaranteed analysis of 99.98% pure.
The Potassium Nitrate came out of Israel, via Florida. Seed Ranch. Guaranteed analysis of 99.8% pure. They no longer sell the same Nitrate.

[almar]

AlMar;
That is why I made the tinfoil 'box'. These two pictures are the same fines I pictured last night. I didn't touch them, except to weigh it. The powder in the 'box' was spread out more, because it was hard to load it in the box. These two were in nice little piles.

So why are you not getting any potassium dots anymore?

[indian joe]

So now my chronograph is no good?
First my mill is no good, yet for twenty years, people have been making good powder with them. And now my chronograph is no good, because it was not expensive enough.

NO!!!!! jeez -------- I am questioning whether (OR not) there is gonna be a difference between mine and yours - given different conditions - 15,000 miles apart and different hemispheres for a start ....... my chrony cost a tad over $300 aussie - but I see same or similar advertised stateside at the time for a bit over a third - so my point if I read 1500 and you read 1400 does it really mean anything - I dont think so - I certainly am not an equipment snob with any of this - most of my gear came together from bits I dug out of my various junk piles ......relax man

[indian joe]

So why are you not getting any potassium dots anymore?

atmospheric conditions at the time of ignition are gonna make a heap of difference to this - humid or dry - hot or cold - different!

[DoubleBuck]

indian joe;
That didn't sound to me like what you meant. But, that's cool. I have no idea what mine would read versus yours. That's why I posted the yardage, on my tests. Every time I move the target, the speeds seem to change, though the chronograph is in the same place. Maybe it is a difference in the distance from the eyes to the bullet. Or maybe it's a $100 dollar chronograph, that I'm pretty proud of. If I had a thousand to spend, I would have still bought this one, because of the thousand reviews on them, that were positive. And an article I read, of 'The 10 Best Chronographs, For The Money', in which it rated number one.
I'm about as relaxed as you can get, at this moment.

[DoubleBuck]

So why are you not getting any potassium dots anymore?

That's why I posted the pictures. I found out a couple of years ago, that for some reason, if you cover a test, it reveals different than a flat piece of tinfoil. If it's really bad, it will show it on the top of the box, or cover. And, this is the first test of fines I remember making. I have tested finished powder and green meal, many times. I'm figuring the spread out fines burn slow, and that had something to do with it. But, don't know exactly why.

[indian joe]

Somebody asked me if my chronometer was off on another forum. So i tried loading known data with a 5 inch 1911 45 acp using 5 grains of W231 and a 230 grain bullet. I was under by 10 fps. 10 fps isn't too bad i reckon...those chronies might be off some but nothing too far. The added $ between them is likely feature related not accuracy. That lab radar thing for example...

mine goes ratty unless I set it up in the shade - proly was not paying enough attention at the start and now I think about it I just set up where it was convenient to shoot, never thought to check if the sky screens were actually shadowing the sensors or not, (seems kinda obvious now I wrote it eh!) so I set up under a shady tree and all is good. The ratty part was every few shots one would not register at all - which I reckon calls into question all the ones that did. I set up at 20 feet - mine has cable to the readout that can sit on the bench close handy - was not interested in messing with a cell phone as part of this gadget and too lazy to walk up to the unit to check each shot. Why 20 feet ? the cable wont reach any further, and I read about guys wrecking their chrony with wads and patches from blackpowder and muzzleloaders.

Its definitely been a big help - shoot a few ten shot strings with ES under 10fps is a big confidence boost. I'm not so bothered about velocity so long as its in the ball park but clean burn and consistent numbers is a big deal I reckon

[DoubleBuck]

atmospheric conditions at the time of ignition are gonna make a heap of difference to this - humid or dry - hot or cold - different!

That is exactly what I'm thinking. My same powder tested different days, shows a different speed, every time. The first picture, it was 51° and 52% humidity. Tonight it was 31° and 98% humidity. I know it makes a difference. And maybe that was the difference.

[almar]

mine goes ratty unless I set it up in the shade - proly was not paying enough attention at the start and now I think about it I just set up where it was convenient to shoot, never thought to check if the sky screens were actually shadowing the sensors or not, (seems kinda obvious now I wrote it eh!) so I set up under a shady tree and all is good. The ratty part was every few shots one would not register at all - which I reckon calls into question all the ones that did. I set up at 20 feet - mine has cable to the readout that can sit on the bench close handy - was not interested in messing with a cell phone as part of this gadget and too lazy to walk up to the unit to check each shot. Why 20 feet ? the cable wont reach any further, and I read about guys wrecking their chrony with wads and patches from blackpowder and muzzleloaders.

Its definitely been a big help - shoot a few ten shot strings with ES under 10fps is a big confidence boost. I'm not so bothered about velocity so long as its in the ball park but clean burn and consistent numbers is a big deal I reckon

Yeah that's it, as long as the numbers are close. My old one was a pain to set up. This new one they made is upside down with the shades under the readers and it works better. I used the velocity to benchmark against other powders in order to help me along the path of making my own powder. But the variance between shots is key for me now. If i load five 45/90 shells a certain way, does it produce under 10 fps variance or preferably 5 fps? Thats the objective now. Or if i duplex it, how much more energy does it give me compared to the non-duplexed ones? Is the accuracy better? If not, then i can't use it.

[DoubleBuck]

AlMar and indian joe;
I never did mention the main point, in the pictures I showed this evening. I was taking the pictures to compare them to your picture, this evening. You said you put .5cc of powder? So do you think (or know) that would also weigh a half gram? I figured my little box would not be a good comparison, so I just cut the foil and paper, to see the difference, and was amazed that it was totally different than last night.

Joe, haha! I just read the last couple of pages back and when you came in, I was frustrated no end, and totally misread what you were saying about the chronograph deal. Hahaha!!! I thought you were saying your high dollar RCBS was much better than my little cheap one, that I got an even better deal on, buying second hand, and I snipped at ya. Man, I apologize. When you explained what you meant, I felt like a heal. Especially when you said you were by no means an equipment snob. And, when you said about your stuff coming out of junk piles, it made me cry, at how close we really are. hahahaha. I hope you forgive me.

I thought someone would ask why I posted the yardages on those tests. That was hoping someone would ask and I could get an answer as to why just changing target distance would have any affect on chronograph readings, over a ten minute span. AND, I was hoping someone might mention the ten shot averages on the Paulownia four strings of 10 shots total averaged just 2 feet apart. I did not know that, until I was writing the post. I thought that was pretty good. Then, one ten shot string was way different, and was a different day.
Joe, you mentioned the shade/sunshine deal? I put the shades up and cover them with a white tee shirt, when the sun is overhead. Two reasons. I've taken five minutes between shots before and had it read '26' or '15' or some weird number. I'm thinking it was the limbs and leaves on the tree overhead. Not sure. And, I think it may read better, in the shade. The other day, the sun was in the far South and West, in the late afternoon. Joe, that would be the far North and East, for you. haha...... I parked my tractor and brush hog where the canopy of the tractor was shading the chronograph and it read really good, without an error, for over an hour. Then, I got an error and the next shot read 1550, and the day's highest was like 1300. I looked and the sun was on the back eye. So I moved my tractor till it was shaded again, and it read great, until nearly sundown. So, have you guys experienced whether the bullet path high or low to the eyes, affects the speed readings?

[indian joe]

AlMar and indian joe;
I never did mention the main point, in the pictures I showed this evening. I was taking the pictures to compare them to your picture, this evening. You said you put .5cc of powder? So do you think (or know) that would also weigh a half gram? I figured my little box would not be a good comparison, so I just cut the foil and paper, to see the difference, and was amazed that it was totally different than last night.

Joe, haha! I just read the last couple of pages back and when you came in, I was frustrated no end, and totally misread what you were saying about the chronograph deal. Hahaha!!! I thought you were saying your high dollar RCBS was much better than my little cheap one, that I got an even better deal on, buying second hand, and I snipped at ya. Man, I apologize. When you explained what you meant, I felt like a heal. Especially when you said you were by no means an equipment snob. And, when you said about your stuff coming out of junk piles, it made me cry, at how close we really are. hahahaha. I hope you forgive me.

I thought someone would ask why I posted the yardages on those tests. That was hoping someone would ask and I could get an answer as to why just changing target distance would have any affect on chronograph readings, over a ten minute span. AND, I was hoping someone might mention the ten shot averages on the Paulownia four strings of 10 shots total averaged just 2 feet apart. I did not know that, until I was writing the post. I thought that was pretty good. Then, one ten shot string was way different, and was a different day.
Joe, you mentioned the shade/sunshine deal? I put the shades up and cover them with a white tee shirt, when the sun is overhead. Two reasons. I've taken five minutes between shots before and had it read '26' or '15' or some weird number. I'm thinking it was the limbs and leaves on the tree overhead. Not sure. And, I think it may read better, in the shade. The other day, the sun was in the far South and West, in the late afternoon. Joe, that would be the far North and East, for you. haha...... I parked my tractor and brush hog where the canopy of the tractor was shading the chronograph and it read really good, without an error, for over an hour. Then, I got an error and the next shot read 1550, and the day's highest was like 1300. I looked and the sun was on the back eye. So I moved my tractor till it was shaded again, and it read great, until nearly sundown.

So, have you guys experienced whether the bullet path high or low to the eyes, affects the speed readings?

Didnt think of that but good chance it does

I absolutely did not get that bit about distance of eyes to the boolit - scratching my head - ' how the heck can this dude see that boolit going 1300fps in broad daylight.???

so yeah distance to the sensor could make a difference ? or light changes ? I reckon that shade thing is important - at least at my place.

I always set up pointed at my 100yard range and try for as centre as I can get in the vee formed by the sunscreens and their support arms (to give me as much room as possible to NOT shoot my chrony)

[maillemaker]

As tech matures cost usually goes down - especially electronics. Doesn't mean it's less quality, just means the tech has gotten cheap. The electronics to capture the dimming of light between one optical sensor and another are now cheap and simple. The biggest problem with my Caldwell chronograph is that it needs just the right amount of sunlight to work. But, they sell LED screens that make it an all-weather device.

Remember - you can buy a solar-powered calculator today for $5 but my dad's first 9V LED calculator cost the equivalent of $2500 back in the 1970s. Doesn't mean the 1970 calculator was any better at adding 2+2.

Back to black powder, I've re-started my production again. Have a tumbler going in the back yard now. I have taken up shooting my smoothbore muskets with military paper cartridges. I can't use them in competition, but they are super fun to shoot. But they consume powder like a beast - 110 grains a shot! So why waste commercial powder on them when I can basically shoot them for free with home-made that is plenty good enough for a front-stuffer with paper-wrapped round ball?

Steve

[Vettepilot]

I bought a Millenium CED M2 chronograph, thinking it was going to be super good. But my first trip to the range was very disappointing. I only got "reads" on 4 shots out of 80, and one or 2 of those is a questionable number. Partly to mostly cloudy, started shooting at 2:30 in the afternoon, so being winter, sun kinda low. Tried with and without screens, and with chrono tilted towards the sun.

Came home, and started reading more about it. Comes down to needing the IR Light Kit on it in those conditions, apparently. That's disappointing. I thought about making my own light setup, but those infrared led lights aren't cheap, and then there's the time and hassle. So, unusual for me, I ditched the DIY route, "Bit the Boolit", and ordered the 90 dollar set from Midway. I'll save a few bucks anyway, by coming up with my own batteries and charger rig. We'll see how it does...

A chrono tip to pass on: I use a laser bore sighter and a piece of paper or cardboard when setting up my chrono to see where the shot will pass through. Put a flag on the trigger (or somewhere) that says "REMOVE LASER BEFORE SHOOTING-!!!"

Still trying to figure out my mill clumping problem. I put a lot of thought and effort into my milling rig, and it's aggravating to have these problems!

EDIT TO ADD: The chrono "failure" was all shooting 223 and 55gr bullet, which with such a small and fast bullet is worst case scenario, especially with the poor light that day.

Vettepilot