Ruger Gunsite Carbine

[lbaize3]

I plan to get a GSR as soon as the distributor can ship one to my dealer. However I plan to use a regular scope on it. I had a Savage scout in 7-08 and a Burris Scout scope. The one time I had a deer to shoot at, the sun was low and just off my right shoulder. Shining directly on the eyepiece of my scope the sun kept me from seeing the deer well enough to shoot. The deer was gone when I could get a better position...

I always liked the idea of a short and handy bolt gun. The hold-back was the bolt gun's limited ammo capacity. The Gunsite Scout Rifle will make a fine carry in the woods and just plain plinking firearm. Hogs and bunnies had best watch out.

[82nd airborne]

For the money I think I would go with an M1A, then the bolt would work itself for us lazyier folk! The GSR was made with a suppressor in mind, so the bolt gun would be quieter, I just hope the threads are concentric.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys Mine showed up today and I got to handle it for about 30 minutes before filling out the usual CA BS paperwork. I get it May 3-4.

This gun is better looking than the one I handled at the store a few days ago. It has a nice gray laminate stock.

They come with a 10rnd Mag and will definately need 2ea 5 rnders+ one more 10 rnder.
The gun came with 2 stock spacers which I will employ, and a set of Ruger Scope rings.

I may or maynot use the Ruger rings, You have to remove the rear sight to use them . XS now has a different Picaninny rail that bolts down in the same position as the stock rail but extends to just in front of the rear sight . This way I could use Warne QR rings for the scope and still have the rear sight actually sighted in to hit something. Also, these types of QD rings usually will repeat, so I can take the scope off and on , and not have to resight the gun everytime. This is a big deal for me. I have other guns I can do this with and it comes in handy if you shoot different disciplines with the same gun.

I must say I have never been a big supporter of the Scout mount position, it just doesn't look right to me and looks do matter to me. To each is own??

I now have to buy a bunch of loading dies and extra stuff to step up to .308 cal. Luckily I already have Boolits that will work in this gun. I am so happy they did a 1-10 barrel instead of a 1-12. this gun will shoot those 200gr bullets we all like so much.

I am pretty happy with my purchase. Paid $750 from Williams Gun Shop Auburn in Auburn MI. Great guys to deal with shipped to CA no problem, and so far I haven't seen any one out here willing to part with one of these for less than full pop.

I'm jumpin' up and down.
Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

This gun will take the place of the M94 Swedish Mauser Carbine that I didnt' buy at a gun show last year. I was kicking myself for months for not getting it. It was built up from parts and already had a Lyman receiver sight installed and the open sights removed. This gun looked good and would have only required mounting a scope on a removable side mount which it was also drilled for. I think they are the Ultimate Sheep and goat gun.

I kick myself everytime I think about it, but now I have "essentially" the same gun but much better. More versitile caliber, although there is certainly nothing wrong with the 6.5x55, but the .308 has many more useful bullet options than the 6.5. More adaptable to options, more firepower in case the Goat Hunt turns into a Can Shoot.

This will be the hunting rifle for when you have to go light but still need 400 yard capibility. I will fit completely into my Eberlestock backpack, so carrying will be a breeze.

I'm pretty pumped to get this gun.. I had a good look at mine today and I can see some small areas of improvement by just deburring. The bolt raceways are a little rough , and the bolt release is sharp and will cut you if you don't pay attention. Other than painting the rear edge of the front sight white so you can see it against a dark background, and adapting the sling, I can't see much wrong with this gun. I think it will be an easy gun to use, and easy to get used to.

Randy

[Combat Diver]

Here's my scout rifle concept built on a 1891 Mosin Nagant (dated 1904). Concept was done back in the early 90s. Barrel is cut back to 18.5" and ported, 3/8" rail on old sight base that orginally had a Bushnell 3x Phantom pistol scope. This scope did not hold up and I've since added a NCStar red/green dot sight. I'll switch back to a forward scope at some point. It still retains the stripper clip guide.



CD

[Geraldo]

Barrel is cut back to 18.5" and ported

That's got to light up the night!

[2wheelDuke]

If only they made one in lefty.

One if these days I need to call Savage up, since I hear they do custom orders and could make a scout with a left hand bolt.

[Curly James]

I had my GSR out again this week trying out a few new j-bullet and cast boolit loads. A Nosler 150 grain and Reloader 7 would consistently put five rounds in less than two inches at 100 yards and amazingly enough managed a 3 shot group at 75 yards of ½ inch. The two cast boolit loads were the Lee boolits for the 7.62 x 39 round and a Lee 180 round nose design. Both were fired by 12 grains of Red Dot and while not spectacular they both managed 5 rounds in 2 ½ inches at 100 yards. They impacted about six inches low Recoil is very mild and I could keep the four inch gong swinging for the full magazine load.
I am still adapting to the scout scope concept and while not best for precision long range accuracy it is very, very fast on target and I am confident that any game animal I will hunt is in the bag out to 200 yards. Honestly, that is about my limit, these days, with any rifle.
This carbine is fast becoming my favorite centerfire long gun and can see it becoming the rifle you will reach for in almost any circumstance and believe it will be a fantastic woods gun come deer and pig season.

[Curly James]

Here are a few photos of the small 75 yard group and the rest at 100 yards.

[Curly James]

The Lee 150 grain cast boolit and a four shot group at 100 yards on a silhouette target. Probably my favorite.

[thehouseproduct]

I really am fascinated by the gun, but I was saddened to read that the gun is not a true controlled round feed due to the magazine. Maybe I'll continue to look for a good donor action for a tactical pre-64 M70.

[W.R.Buchanan]

thehouseproduct:

You read this in the NRA mag and I read this too, and it is misleading at best. This gun is not "100% CRF" in the normal sense of the word. It is however about 70% CRF in the normal sense and that last part is the part that matters. It feeds the round forward about one third of the way into the chamber before the feed lips of the mag release the cartridge. Then the bolt takes over as the rim slides under the extractor and it feeds just like a Mauser or Winchester does. It is true controlled round feed from there on in. Actually when you look at it the magazine controls the round for part of the feed cycle and the bolt controls it for the remainder, so it is 100% controlled round feed, just not in the conventional sense of the term.

If the round was just being pushed forward of the extractor and it was being forced to snap over the rim of the cartridge as the action went into battery then it would be a push feed action.

Heres the deal if you can turn the gun upside down and slowly feed a round in the chamber the the action is controlling the round. A Rem 700 is a push feed action and as soon as the round leaves the magazine it will fall out the top. The Ruger is NOT LIKE THAT. As soon as the round leaves the magazine the bolt has ahold of it.

This was a misnomer that should have been edited out or expanded on before it was printed as it gives the wrong impression. It will hurt sales. I mean you aren't going to buy one because of this issue. Many others will turn their noses up as well because of some writing that is not completely accurate.

I'm sure Curly James who actually has one of these guns would agree. And I got to play with mine before it went into the waiting period yesterday and one of the things I looked at closely was this very point. That's why I know the article is mis leading.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Curly: have you tried Lyman 311299 200gr? 25gr of 5744 is the charge I would expect to work and yeild about 1850-1900fps.

When seated to the crimp groove in a .308 it may be too long to feed from the magazine, but it would still single load.

I would expect this bullet to perform well in these guns. At least I'm hopin'

I also have Lee 190 gr rnfp which will seat deeper, that I can use.

Randy

[thehouseproduct]

thehouseproduct:

You read this in the NRA mag and I read this too, and it is BS. This gun is not "100% CRF" in the normal sense of the word. It is however about 70% CRF in the normal sense and that last part is the part that matters. It feeds the round forward about one third of the way into the chamber before the feed lips of the mag release the cartridge. Then the bolt taks over and it feeds just like a Mauser or Winchester does. It is true controlled round feed from there on in. Actually when you look at it the magazine controls the round for part of the feed cycle and the bolt controls it for the remainder, so it is controlled round feed just not in the conventional sense of the term.

A Marlin Lever rifle is also controlled round feed, Essentially.

Heres the deal if you can turn the gun upside down and slowly feed a round in the chamber the the action is controlling the round. A Rem 700 is a push feed action and as soon as the round leaves the magazine it will fall out the top. The Ruger is NOT LIKE THAT. As soon as the round leaves the magazine the bolt has ahold of it.

This was a misnomer that should have been edited out or expanded on before it was printed as it gives the wrong impression, and I doubt the author even knows the difference anyway. He probably over heard someone talking about it and didn't hear or understand the whole conversation.

This is a perfect example of someone who doesn't understand all he knows about something, and because he is a writer for AR he is deemed to be knowledgable. He may in fact be knowledgable, but he is definately NOT one of them that knows.

I'm sure Curly James who actually has one of these guns would agree. And I got to play with mine before it went into the waiting period yesterday and One of the things I looked at closely was this very point. That's why I know the article is mis leading.

Randy

Good to know. I still need a pre64 M70 though.

[Curly James]

W.R. described the feed process perfectly and just to put it to the test I loaded the magazine and tried holding it upside down, sideways and straight up though several mag fulls. Nothing fell out no matter what position. The nice thing is, with an empty mag in place, you can drop a round in the opening and single feed all day long.

W.R. I don't have that particular mold but I do have a discontinued 180 grain Lyman spitzer that always seems to do well in my other rifles. Think I'll give your load a try with that boolit

[Larry Gibson]

W.R.Buchanan

" Luckily I already have Boolits that will work in this gun. I am so happy they did a 1-10 barrel instead of a 1-12. this gun will shoot those 200gr bullets we all like so much."

Rather unlucky actually, the 12" twist would have "handled" the 200 gr bullets just fine and the 12: twist would have "handled" cast bullets, from 90 gr to 200 gr. at higher velocity better.

I do hope you enjoy the GSR and do try a correctly mounted scout scope. Once you get used to it you will really begin to like being able to keep both eyes open and having that amount of field of view. You can always close the one eye for precise shots whn you have to. Use a 1.5 - 2.5 power scope max with the Leupold scout scope being an excellent choice.

I've only 4 problems with the GSR;

Barrel length (I'd prefer 20" minimum)
Barrel twist (should have stuck with the original .308W twist of 12")
Requires a special magazine (should have redone the exractory so it would take M14 mags)
Cant top off the magazine while in the rifle (can you? Should be stripper clip capable)

Of the 3 factory scouts I do find the GSR as the best possible. Just too bad they didn't "finnish" it.

My M1A "scout" was close to perfect except for barrel length. I cut the barrel back and remounted the flash suppressor before SA released the "Scout" model. I shot the barrel out in IPSC matches and varmint hunting 15 years ago. The rifle wears a standard 22" barrel now and I'm quite satisfied with it. My current .308W scout based on the FR8 has a 18" barrel and a 10" twist. I find the barrel length limiting and the twist limiting with cast bullets. When shot out it will get a 20" barrel with the flash suppressor added making a 22.5" barrel OAL and a 12" twist. The M1A is very nice with the magazines (I use a cut off 10 rounder and standard 20 rounders) and can be loaded from the top singly or with stripper clips. The FR* has the standard 5 shot mag but can also be topped off individually or with strippers. being able to top off individually, via stripper clip or with a magazine change is a decided advantage. My specifications come from a lot of practical experience with those and several other scout rifles.

Again, enjoy the GSR as it does look like a nicely done "scout".

Larry Gibson

[W.R.Buchanan]

It is interesting to note that Mauser designed the controlled round feed concept to cope with trench warfare which was all the rage back then. If you are laying on your back in a muddy trench (helluva a way to spend your day) and the rounds fall out the top of the gun, it could be considered a problem.

Can you imagine if Mauser had come up with the Rem 700 action instead of what he did, The German High command probably would have executed him! What a brilliant idea the M70 would have been when it came along and solved all the problems? There would have never been a Springfield rifle, and we would have all bought surplus Model 70 Wins. What a different world it would be today.

I have a Springfield 03A3 and I love it, but it is nothing more than a bad copy of a Mauser. The fact we had to pay them royalties to produce it just added insult to injury. For a while.

It is amazing to me all of the features he incorporated into the final models, and how well they have stood the test of time. That controlled round feed thing is only one of the good things. The won't fire unless the bolt is fully closed feature is a good idea too, as well as the gas relief ports and the bolt shroud that shields your face. He had pretty much all the bases covered.

Curly: I would be more than happy to send you a few of those bullets if you would like to try them. All you would have to do is size/lube them and install the gas checks. That way if they worked for you you get a mould. Mine are cast from WW and Water Quenched.

The one in the middle is what I'm talking about. The one on the right is the Lee 308-190 and the left is Lachmiller 308-173 same as Lyman 311041

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry Gibson: I'll have to take the twist rate arguement to the range. My Husky .30-06 shoots those 200gr bullets from it's 1-10 barrel well, at about 1850fps which is fast enough for those boolits. We'll see how they do from a .308 case, as everything else will be the same. Since I am running slower I think the faster twist will help, not hurt.

I did find out about one negative about the RGS today. The 5 rnd mags are $68.00 a piece, and the 10 rnder's are $70 from Ruger and guess what? they don't have any.

I called Brownells and the girl I talked to doesn't even know this gun exists, and couldn't find mags for it so chances are they don't have them yet. Hopefully they will get some soon.

Next I wanted the new XS Picaninny rail that picks up the rear sight mount screw hole. I was under the impression that the rail was cantelevered off the existing mount holes of the existing rail. Turns out that it is a full rail that replaces the existing rail and extends back to pick up the rear sight mounting hole on the rear receiver ring. AND it has an XS rear sight built into it, as the stock sight goes away.

This part will allow the rear sight to say on the gun and sighted in while using a scope mounted over the magazine on QR mounts. That way I can go back and forth between sighting systems. I really want a 1-6X scope for this gun.

I have never imbraced the Scout Scope mount because I feel there are better ways to do a 1-2.5 x sighting system. Red dots etc. can all be mounted forward or in the conventional position, and it makes little difference as you can shoot both eyes open with either mounting. I shoot both eyes open with my Mini 14 with the scope mounted to the rear.

Also if I am going to carry a scope around it needs to have higher magnification than 2x. A variable 1-8 would be ideal but who an afford the one that is $4000. I will probably have to settle for either a 1-6x if I can find one I can afford, or a 2-7X which shouldn't be a problem. I can get an illuminated reticle in a 1-6 right now from several companies.

Regarding optics. I am a fan of really good optics and after doing alot of time in the Astro telescope arena I can tell the difference between the good stuff and the ****. However there was a significant difference betweeen the good stuff and the **** 20 years ago. This is no longer the case. All of the lenses for most all Scopes and Binos (with few high end exceptions) are now made in China under the close supervision of the Japanese companies that made the machines being used to produce said lenses.

New light transmitting coatings are also enhancing the products significantly. These coatings are being used on very inexpensive lenses, to bring them up to a higher light transmission values.

I have a pair of 12x24 Tasco binos that I bought from Target for $17.95 to keep in my truck, that are clearer than my Steiner 8x30's I paid $200 for in 1990. Noticeably Clearer

I have a Zeiss 8x20 monocular I paid stupid money for in 1978 ($395.!) which is a very good glass, but it is not $385 better than the Tasco Monocular I bought at Walmart for $12! Not even close. the Zeiss glass was made in the mid 70's and they have come along way since then.

I have a Leapers 1.25-4X scope on my Mini 14 that was made for airguns. Airguns beat the hell out of optics so I figured it would work fine for my application. I bought it from Pyramid Air for $79.95. It has a lighted retical in either red or green, and Mildots on the reticle.

It just did 500 rnds at Front Sight and is still holding the original zero. The only problem I had was the front lens cover got loose when the sun got hot so I put a piece of masking tape around the tube and pushed the lens cap back on. good to go.

I assure you I can hit a man sized target everytime from 200 yards with it set at 4x, I would be hard pressed to do that at 2X, but the point is the scope has good enough optics for what it is being used for. I'm good to 400yds.

If I drop it and break it I'm out $80.

The clarity issue with the new generation of lenses is now mute. Everybody is using the same glass and the same machines to grind and polish the lenses. The really high end stuff uses Flourite Glass which is very expensive and is noticably better. However everything else except the $1200+ stuff uses the same glass, and the differences are in the coatings. Many outfits that make $1200+ items don't even use flourite glass, so where's the value in them. I don't put much value on a name any more, I have burned too many times by them whos names we all know. Snap On being one of the biggest offenders. But I digress.

The issue now is light transmission. I know specifically what to look for in lens quality but I can't tell the difference between 92% light transmission and 94%, and nobody else can either. It takes and instrument to do it.

So the point is,,,, Whats the point, if you can't tell the difference!!!

I am of the mind that I will use what I can afford until it gives up and then I will get something else. I think it is more important to shoot alot than to spend mega bucks on equipment you will not get your moneys worth out of because you don't shoot enough. There is little investment value in riflescopes

All of those guys on TV we watch who use "only the best optics" have one thing in common. They ALL got them for FREE!!! It's called product placement. I think you'd see alot more Bushnell scopes being used on TV if Leupold didn't sponsor Jim Shockey, and the other big names.

My gun will probably not have a Leupold scope it will probably have something in the >$200 range. You can get alot of bang for your buck in this area now so don't turn your nose up at a inexpensive scope most are pretty good stuff nowadays.

Now if Ruger will only make some of those magazines?

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

W. R. Buchannon

Larry Gibson: I'll have to take the twist rate arguement to the range. My Husky .30-06 shoots those 200gr bullets from it's 1-10 barrel well, at about 1850fps which is fast enough for those boolits. We'll see how they do from a .308 case, as everything else will be the same. Since I am running slower I think the faster twist will help, not hurt.

Actually with that 200 gr bullet you should be able to get very good accuracy upwards of 1900 - 1950 fps with either cartridge with that 10" twist, I do as do many others. With a 12" twist in either cartridge one can push that bullet, with the same very good accuracy, upwards of 2100 - 2200 fps. I also push 200 gr cast (311299, 314299 and 311284s) bullets down as low as 300 fps with 10" and 12" twist out of .308Ws. Surprisngly they are very accurate to 100 yards. The hard part with such loads is sufficient sight adjustment to get on target. Can do with many milsurp sights to 50 yards but hard to get on target at 100 yards with most. The long ladder on milsurp sights such as those on the M1903s works best. Some Mausers and Finn M39s do well also with rear ladder sights.

However, with the GSR using a scout scope the 1850 fps load with the 200 yard cast is easily doable for zero. I push 311299s very accurately at 1900 fps out of my FR8 .308W/7.62 NATO scout (Burris 1.5X scout scope) with it's 18.5" barrel with 10" twist.

Larry Gibson

[Combat Diver]

Randy,

If I remember correctly the Ruger Scout Rifle uses Accuracy International Chassis System (AICS) magazines. Brownells does have them, just not marked for Ruger.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4...HABLE_MAGAZINE

CD