there is a function on your profile page...see USER CP ( or close to it) that is an IGNORE LIST.
may i suggest you try it out...maybe practice with a name begining with a g...
why was the thread locked....only one abuser on a great thread????
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
thanks. i had a question that may have parted the fog and brought it all together for me and maybe others.
I don't know why the others needed to comment negatively when it was a great discussion. It is hard to completely change ingrained ideas just because one or two people say "it's not important". So if I had to look at the information provided several different ways to "get it" then it is what it is. I'm sure we all have had those moments.
So I'm going to start another thread of getting a round peg through chutestrates' square head and hope the moderator's realize that they may were too hasty.
brett,
i was putting them on by hand, and then crimp/size in an rcbs lube/sizer.
just look at the base of a check and the base of a boolit and there is a significant quality difference. the cg is radiused.the cast base is sharp and square(my molds). a muzzle crown is precisely machined with a very sharp, nearly square, if not square, edge. almost all jacketed bullets have a radius...just too hard to get a square sharp corner to seat well in production. but a sub dia sharp square corner for a hand loader is no issue. the last influence the gun has on the boolit is as the base of the boolit passes the crown of the muzzle.
again it is a very small sample...one gun.....but it works in the one case.
by the way i never got 44 jacketed bullets to shoot anywhere near as well as cast boolits shoot from this gun.
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
i have no idea of the alloy or hardness of my boolits.
i cast(mainly) ww with minor tin and water drop them.
they work for me
i size them to fit the gun.
i use a home made lube fwfl.
if it has not already got thru to you......if you size to fit the gun, and then work up a load...life is much better than trying for a specific hardness and not sizing for the gun.
its like all the rest of handloading...work up a load....do not start at the top and expect it to work. guns are different, and in our case our boolits are different too.
get a quality mic....depending on the width of the lands and grooves a digital caliper may work.
slug the bbl......go buy a fishing weight close to bore size...adjust its dia with a hammer. lube the bbl and the slug...slug both ends......its unlikely you will get an odd number..a 10mm is gonna be between 400 and 402 in a quality bbl.
go from there
mike in co
only accurate rifles are interesting
I read the entire thread. Don't take it so personal if someone makes a negative comment. This place is like a half dozen guys standing around the bed of a pickup truck discussing dog training. The course of discussion will wander form time to time and how others express their opinion typically is not an attack on your intellect. If it were you would know it. Relax a bit, take it all in and it will sort out. There is a lot of good advice in that thread if you give it a chance.Originally Posted by chutestrate
SS
NRA Life Member Since 1981
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"-- George Washington
II Corinthians 4:8-9. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted but not forsaken, struck down, but not destroyed."
Psalms 25:2 O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I absolutely agree that the amount of advice is gold mine for me. I'm sorting through it and it is helping.
my dan wesson rz10 barrel is tapered, luckily towards the muzzle. its .401 past the chamber, and .400 at the muzzle.
so definitely slug from both ends.
Mike, if the thread was locked because of me and you feel I was a abuser then I apologize for that to you and the moderator. That was not my intention in my posts. I guess I just felt like someone had to point out the obvious as I saw it and I admit I was very blunt, but maybe I was wrong. I liked the thread also and it did contain a lot of useful information. I guess my ticked off button simply got pushed by some noob telling me and others not to post. I'll try to consider the source in the future. Again, I apologize if I'm the reason the thread is locked and the moderator should feel free to delete my last post and reopen the thread.
There wasn't any reason to interrupt the thread the way you did, and I don't have to earn anything. No apologies for being so combative with you. What is obvious to you might not be to others. I've been civil to everyone so until you started something it was all ok.
I can keep going as well. So I'll accept your apology as well.
You know what they say about arguing on the internet and the special olympics right?
I read all that and honestly none of it was enough to get feather riled IMHO. Maybe re-read the whole thing then just try some shoot some until it works out.
Good luck with getting your load down.
Basically, I've started making my boolits whatever hardness I want ( for hollow points for instance). Then I make them shoot (hopefully).
Last edited by leftiye; 01-07-2011 at 02:00 AM.
We need somebody/something to keep the government (cops and bureaucrats too) HONEST (by non government oversight).
Every "freedom" (latitude) given to government is a loophole in the rule of law. Every loophole in the rule of law is another hole in our freedom. When they even obey the law that is. Too often government seems to feel itself above the law.
We forgot to take out the trash in 2012, but 2016 was a charm! YESSS!
One of the things we all need to understand is that we have a lot of new members who know little or nothing about what we understand. There is a basic education necessary and there are very few who have the Lyman #3 book that gives them that information. Now that #4 is available that is a basic reference. If you don't understand the information about metallurgy there you may need research basic Chemistry and ionic bonds.
We need to understand that this is not the hobby for everyone. Anyone who sees failure as a reason to quit will not succeed in this - failure needs to increase our curosity and interest. Anyone who wants it simple but wants to pour boolits for a high pressure cartridge probably will not succeed except by trial and error.
One of the things we do in a Graduate program, at least for Clinical Psychology, is to point people who's personality is not appropriate for this career into another career in which they may be successful. We might want to nicely suggest to some that they think about whether or not they want to cast for rifle or simply buy cast boolits from the BullShop or stick to condoms. That's not bad and probably necessary for some.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
Wayne, it's not only true for psychology majors, but any major. Seriously inquisitive minds will do well in any field once the field is determined to be a challenge and not a necessity for livelihood. ... felix
felix
You are dead on Wayne. As I said in a different post, being a Bullet caster and shooter is more than pouring lead and putting rounds down range. It is a state of mind. It is a desire to learn, if not through reading or asking question, then thru experimentation. Failure is not all bad, it is a learning tool. Almost all we can say not to do was learned because someone did it.
How many lube formulas did Felix go thru before he came up with his lube recipe? They were not failures, they were key points on the road to success. He learned from each and refined things to get where the recipe is today.
New casters sometimes want to get around this learning curve. Sadly, that is not always possible. Yes, a person can buy some cast bullets and load and shoot them. This does not, however, make them a caster and cast bullet shooter.
Don't ever give up in the quest for knowledge. Don't ever refuse to try that which has not been tried. The road to success is littered with those who did not have what it takes. Refuse to be one of them.
Sorry for butting in, but I"ve really enjoyed these threads and got a lot out of them. Although I'm relatively new here, I'm far from new on internet forums and I have to say...this is the most respectful and 'patient' bunch of folks I've ever seen. Kudos to everyone.
Since bullet hardness has been the discussion, I have a question. When heat treating lead alloys, does it matter to the end result how you harden e.g. WD versus oven heat treat? What I'm trying to understand is will either HT method ONLY achieve the hardness that the alloy has the potential to reach over time? Also, is this increased hardness limited to the surface of the bullet, similar to case hardening steel, or is the hardness deeper than that?
Jeff
Never forget Thomas Edison's statement. I developed 10,000 ways to build a light bulb that will never work and only 1 that would.
If there is a WARMER, MORE GENEROUS, KNOWLEDGIBLE site out there for free it is a well kept secret.
Water dropping will probably give slightly lower hardness and more variation. This is due to variations in bullet temp upon quenching and because using an oven can potentially give a higher temp at quenching. That said, I water drop. Keeps bullets out of the kitchen which increases marital harmony. It also is the way I like to cast. Keeps me from having a pile of hot bullets that seem to always want to be picked up. Ouch.
The hardness does seem to increase over a period of time. Most of the hardening seems to come within a week. Over long, as in many years, the bullets may soften some.
All that said, I don't sweat it. The hardness variations from water dropping don't matter for hunting. I rarely shoot past 100 yards so o don't need gnat size groups. I like to keep it simple, and water dropping does that for me.
The hardness is largely on the outside of the bullet. Some of this depends on the alloy. Water hardened Linotype is pretty hard clean thru and will become brittle. Water drop some 50-50 wheelweight - pure lead and you get a bullet hard enough to drive to 1700 or better in a 45-70 and the bullet will expand yet stay together. Not at all brittle.
You will quickly learn that opinions on things like hardness and water dropping bullets vary greatly here We all have things that work for us, there is not a "right" answer. This drives some of the new guys nuts but don't let it. It is this desire to be our own guy that most of us like.
Last edited by btroj; 01-08-2011 at 12:35 AM. Reason: Typo
Too many questions, not enough action from the questioner.
Cast some bullets and shoot them, and then come back with results and questions. If you are just kicking tires, you aren't learning anything. You need to have a session with Dr. Gun.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
TRUE TRUE
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote